*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

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DistrictCyclone

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Joe Schad ‏ @schadjoe Does Florida State leave the ACC when it's president appears to strongly support staying?

These snippets definitely seem like they're coming from a diminished/outnumbered point of view. If there weren't people in power in favor of moving to the Big 12, the president would have zero reasons to release a reactionary memo on the topic. This is going to happen...
 
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Palmer

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Jun 10, 2008
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I want to assure you that any decision made about FSU athletics will be
reasoned and thoughtful and based on athletics, finances and academics.
Allow me to provide you with some of the issues we are facing:

In support of a move are four basic factors argued by many alumni:

1. The ACC is more basketball than it is football, and many of our alumni
view us as more football oriented than the ACC
2. The ACC is too North Carolina centric and the contract advantages
basketball and hence advantages the North Carolina schools
3. The Big 12 has some big football schools that match up with FSU
4. The Big 12 contract (which actually isn't signed yet) is rumored to be
$2.9M more per year than the ACC contract. We need this money to be
competitive.

But, in contrast:

1. The information presented about the ACC contract that initiated the
blogosphere discussion was not correct. The ACC is an equal share
conference and this applies to football and to basketball * there is no
preferential treatment of any university with the exception of 3rd tier
rights for women's basketball and Olympic sports. FSU is advantaged by
that aspect of the contract over the majority of other ACC schools.
2. Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12, at least in
part because the Big 12 is not an equal share conference. Texas has
considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say
this as a former dean of the University of Texas at Austin - I watched the
Big 12 disintegration with interest). So, when fans realize that Texas
would get more dollars than FSU, always having a competitive advantage, it
would be interesting to see the fan reaction.
3. Much is being made of the extra $2.9M that the Big 12 contract (which
hasn't been inked yet) gets over the ACC contract. Given that the Texas
schools are expected to play each other (the Big 12 is at least as Texas
centered than the ACC is North Carolina centered), the most likely
scenario has FSU playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West
Virginia on a recurring basis and the other teams sporadically (and one
more unnamed team has to join to allow the Big 12 to regain a championship
game), we realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to
most games * the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to
be in the Big 12 appears to exceed the $2.9M difference in the contract *
actually giving us fewer dollars than we have now to be competitive with
the Big 12 teams, who obviously do not have to travel as far. Any
renegotiated amount depends not just on FSU but the caliber of any other
new team to the Big 12.
4. Few believe that the above teams will fill our stadium with fans of
these teams and so our lack of sales and ticket revenue would continue.
5. We would lose the rivalry with University of Miami that does fill our
stadium
6. It will cost between $20M and $25M to leave the ACC * we have no idea
where that money would come from. It would have to come from the Boosters
which currently are unable to support our current University athletic
budget, hence the 2% cut in that budget.
7. The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is
academically weaker * and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2%
($2.4M) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from
concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget (105M)
gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms
of its successful future.


I present these issues to you so that you realize that this is not so
simple (not to mention that negotiations aren't even taking place). One
of the few wise comments made in the blogosphere is that no one negotiates
their future in the media. We can't afford to have conference affiliation
be governed by emotion * it has to be based on a careful assessment of
athletics, finances and academics. I assure you that every aspect of
conference affiliation will be looked at by this institution, but it must
be a reasoned decision.

Eric Barron
President



Blee blee blah blah...see you on the field in 2013.
 

Clonehomer

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
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I thought that I read the ACC TV contract is backloaded and next year they will only be making $12mil. The Big12 is expected at $20+. How is that a $2.4mil difference?
 

brokenloginagain

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Jul 25, 2006
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its so funny to read all of this over again - its as if each school thinks they're different, yet we've read it all before.

the board, the president, the AD, the major coaches, big donors, and the "regular" fans of each school are rarely/never in agreement when it comes to realignment.
 

HFCS

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2010
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its so funny to read all of this over again - its as if each school thinks they're different, yet we've read it all before.

the board, the president, the AD, the major coaches, big donors, and the "regular" fans of each school are rarely/never in agreement when it comes to realignment.

Very true, the silliest point among those is they have "NO IDEA" where any of the exit fee money would come from, when it's quite clear at least half of it would be coming from the Big 12 directly.

Stuff like that is clearly painting things a certain and somewhat misleading way. If the writer of those points is willing to fudge 10-13 million on something fairly obvious like exit fees, who knows how many 10s of millions he's happy to fudge somewhere else.
 

boone7247

Well-Known Member
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Aug 15, 2011
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Near the City
I want to assure you that any decision made about FSU athletics will be
reasoned and thoughtful and based on athletics, finances and academics.
Allow me to provide you with some of the issues we are facing:

In support of a move are four basic factors argued by many alumni:

1. The ACC is more basketball than it is football, and many of our alumni
view us as more football oriented than the ACC
2. The ACC is too North Carolina centric and the contract advantages
basketball and hence advantages the North Carolina schools
3. The Big 12 has some big football schools that match up with FSU
4. The Big 12 contract (which actually isn't signed yet) is rumored to be
$2.9M more per year than the ACC contract. We need this money to be
competitive.

But, in contrast:

1. The information presented about the ACC contract that initiated the
blogosphere discussion was not correct. The ACC is an equal share
conference and this applies to football and to basketball * there is no
preferential treatment of any university with the exception of 3rd tier
rights for women's basketball and Olympic sports. FSU is advantaged by
that aspect of the contract over the majority of other ACC schools.
2. Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12, at least in
part because the Big 12 is not an equal share conference. Texas has
considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say
this as a former dean of the University of Texas at Austin - I watched the
Big 12 disintegration with interest). So, when fans realize that Texas
would get more dollars than FSU, always having a competitive advantage, it
would be interesting to see the fan reaction.
3. Much is being made of the extra $2.9M that the Big 12 contract (which
hasn't been inked yet) gets over the ACC contract. Given that the Texas
schools are expected to play each other (the Big 12 is at least as Texas
centered than the ACC is North Carolina centered), the most likely
scenario has FSU playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West
Virginia on a recurring basis and the other teams sporadically (and one
more unnamed team has to join to allow the Big 12 to regain a championship
game), we realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to
most games * the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to
be in the Big 12 appears to exceed the $2.9M difference in the contract *
actually giving us fewer dollars than we have now to be competitive with
the Big 12 teams, who obviously do not have to travel as far. Any
renegotiated amount depends not just on FSU but the caliber of any other
new team to the Big 12.
4. Few believe that the above teams will fill our stadium with fans of
these teams and so our lack of sales and ticket revenue would continue.
5. We would lose the rivalry with University of Miami that does fill our
stadium
6. It will cost between $20M and $25M to leave the ACC * we have no idea
where that money would come from. It would have to come from the Boosters
which currently are unable to support our current University athletic
budget, hence the 2% cut in that budget.
7. The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is
academically weaker * and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2%
($2.4M) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from
concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget (105M)
gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms
of its successful future.


I present these issues to you so that you realize that this is not so
simple (not to mention that negotiations aren't even taking place). One
of the few wise comments made in the blogosphere is that no one negotiates
their future in the media. We can't afford to have conference affiliation
be governed by emotion * it has to be based on a careful assessment of
athletics, finances and academics. I assure you that every aspect of
conference affiliation will be looked at by this institution, but it must
be a reasoned decision.

Eric Barron
President



Blee blee blah blah...see you on the field in 2013.

My response to to President Barron,

1) Thanks for clearing that up, but does change the fact that your contract is inferior.
2) Yes those teams left in part because they didn't like how money was distributed, however, the conference now shares equally TV revenue. So you are incorrect.
3) So you are saying the ACC deal is worth 18M a year to each school? This is not what has been reported, the B12 deal is likely to be 20.9m or higher depending on the likely hood of additional teams joining. So a 2.9M dependency is highly miss leading.
4) So good competition won't bring fans to the stand, I disagree with that, and feel that the reason you have trouble putting people in the seats is related directly to the types of teams FSU continues to play in their OOC games, as well as a lack of excitement related to their conference games.
5) You don't know this, UM might come with you to the B12, or you may still play them as part of you OOC games. You can't make this statement yet.
6) It is likely that the B12 would help foot half your exit fee. It is also likely if this move excites boosters, the money will come.
7) Yes but conference affiliation does not affect academic performance. We all would like to think it does, but it really doesn't. Also don't slap all the schools of the B12 across the face, as there are many highly regarded universities in the conference.

My final point in my reply to Mr.(Dr.) Barron, if this decision is not to be made on emotion, then why did you feel so inclined to write such a emotional response to speculation. The fact that you have provided false information, or at the least not taken the time to learn the facts indicates that you have made an emotional response. So take some time, talk to your Trustees, and major donors, then make your response, but next time make sure it is factually accurate.

Thanks for trying,

boone7247
 
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HFCS

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Aug 13, 2010
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LA LA Land
Very interesting to see somebody put a number to the travel issue. More than $2.9 million in additional travel costs.

I'd take it with a grain of salt, he implies that their teams will regularly take a bus to upstate New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia and North Carolina. I highly doubt that's the case. A quick look at a map shows just 3 reasonable bus trips out of 13 ACC opponents.

Serious question, does ISU bus all their teams to OU and OSU? It's an hour less drive than FSU to the NC schools.

That particular point makes a lot more sense coming from Clemson than FSU. If FSU gets even one regional partner their travel isn't significantly different. If they somehow got Miami and another southern team it'd be a wash. Even Miami is twice the bus ride for them as KSU and KU are for us. The SEC is the only league where it seems like they'd be in a "bus" travel situation.
 

Wesley

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2006
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Omaha
My response to to President Barron,

1) Thanks for clearing that up, but does change the fact that your contract is inferior.
2) Yes those teams left in part because they didn't like how money was distributed, however, the conference now shares equally TV revenue. So you are incorrect.
3) So you are saying the ACC deal is worth 18M a year to each school? This is not what has been reported, the B12 deal is likely to be 20.9m or higher depending on the likely hood of additional teams joining. So a 2.9M dependency is highly miss leading.
4) So good competition won't bring fans to the stand, I disagree with that, and feel that the reason you have trouble putting people in the seats is related directly to the types of teams FSU continues to play in their OOC games, as well as a lack of excitement related to their conference games.
5) You don't know this, UM might come with you to the B12, or you may still play them as part of you OOC games. You can't make this statement yet.
6) It is likely that the B12 would help foot half your exit fee. It is also likely if this move excites boosters, the money will come.
7) Yes but conference affiliation does not affect academic performance. We all would like to think it does, but it really doesn't. Also don't slap all the schools of the B12 across the face, as there are many highly regarded universities in the conference.

My final point in my reply to Mr.(Dr.) Barron, if this decision is not to be made on emotion, then why did you feel so inclined to write such a emotional response to speculation. The fact that you have provided false information, or at the least not taken the time to learn the facts indicates that you have made an emotional response. So take some time, talk to your Trustees, and major donors, then make your response, but next time make sure it is factually accurate.

Thanks for trying,

boone7247
Football quality in the ACC has been less than impressive in last few years.
 

dtISU

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2010
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When I read that Barron said "We can't afford to have conference affiliation governed by emotion", my first thought was Misery. Emotion completely governed their conference affiliation. HA HA!
 

alarson

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Mar 15, 2006
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Didnt someone run the numbers on FSU's distances and find them not all that farther in the big 12 than the ACC? Its not like theyre playing all their games close to home anyhow, theyve got one or two busable games and then after that theyre flying.
 

CYphyllis

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Jun 22, 2010
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Very interesting to see somebody put a number to the travel issue. More than $2.9 million in additional travel costs.

B12 covers travel costs for all schools before the money is divided up and split evenly. It's a non issue.
 
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