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Discussion in 'Football' started by ChrisMWilliams, Aug 19, 2019.
All of this seems like a pointless argument
We're definitely not projecting insecurity.
How the **** is a guy that hasn’t played a game yet a miss?
Or are you just being a douchebag, again?
Again? Do i have a history of being a douche?
Zeb got recruited over. Doesn't make him a miss. Purdy is just better. He could very well be a good QB for NDSU, he's just starting over in a completely different offense and a new team.
Moore was a stop gap flier in a transition year. He wasn't being counted on to pan out. They just needed bodies at QB and he served that purpose. Basically a step up from a walk on. Are you upset that Kyle Starcevich wasn't a start for ISU?
Dean just got on campus. He's not beating our Purdy so he is working out with the TEs. He's a great athlete so he has a chance to get on the field. He might be recruited over by Dekkers as well so hell, give him a shot elsewhere. Doesn't make him a miss.
Park was a reclamation project that they got more out of than anyone expected. It ended badly, but that doesn't make him a miss. He was a low risk, high reward guy. We got a medium reward for the risk and Kempt was able to step in and win one of the biggest games of the last few seasons. Win, win.
What is your criteria for being a hit? A Heisman? 4 year starter? Not everyone can be a 4 year starter. Most aren't.
So no QB is ever a miss? Just move the goal posts around to fit narrative? I’ll concede I was too brash on Dean. It’s too early to tell if he’s a hit or miss. I am wrong.
But i don’t think it’s unfair to call Moore, Noland, and park a miss.
What's your criteria for being a "hit" then?
I'm actually really curious what you expected from each of them when they showed up on campus.
Every recruit is not going to be better than the previous one. Not everyone we recruit is going to become a starter or a star.
I look at it as expectation vs. reality.
We can call Moore a miss, but I wasn't expecting anything from him and that's what we got.
But I'll give that one to you. He did not produce anything.
Noland, he's someone we expected something from. And he was pretty good when he played. Big arm, but not as explosive as Purdy.
Being recruited over doesn't mean he was terrible. It just means Purdy is better.
Expectation: Starter quality Reality: He was starter quality when he played, but got beat out.
I would say Noland was a true bust if he stayed for 5 years and never played, or if he played terribly every time he was in.
I guess you can say he was a miss because he wasn't good enough to beat out Kempt, but I think that's more opinion than fact. Kempt ended up being pretty dang good when he finally got his shot.
Park is a different story. Expectation when he showed up? Nothing. Never heard of him. He'd bounced around so much I didn't expect him to ever play. Reality year one? Way more than I hoped for. So much so that people were super excited about his second season. Reality year two? He was as big of a head case as was expected when he showed up out of nowhere.
I guess you can call him a miss too because he didn't live up to the expectations he set by playing well at first, but he was a shot in the dark and we got more out of him than most expected.
I'm a glass half full guy, what can I say.
I'm not trying to move the goalposts. Please don't make me sound like a hok troll.
I genuinely appreciate the civil back and forth. What makes this site great
Reasons why i consider the following a miss
Moore - did nothing and was behind a walk on in depth chart when he left ISU.
Noland - 1-3 as a starter (counting @iowa)
And what’s bigger to me is he quit the team after he was beat out by Purdy.
Park - no argument he had talent but dude failed drug tests. He pissed positive for cocaine. I heard from very good sources close to the team that no one on the coaching staff or team shed any tears when he left. He rubbed a lot the wrong way.
I guess I dont know what i consider a “hit”. Kempt no doubt but even someone from the previous staff like Sam Richardson who wasn’t the most talented but did things the right way and didn’t quit when he was beat out, I’d consider him a hit.
Going back through the last decade of ISU QBs? And this is testing my memory.
Sage - Hit
Seneca - HIT
Chris Love Jr (RIP) - Miss, I guess?
Waye Terry - Miss
Austin Flynn - Miss (as a QB)
Bret Myer - HIT (Thank goodness)
Austen Arnaud - Hit, I think. Not his fault he had so many coaches.
Phillip Bates - Miss
Jerome Tiller - Miss, except one game against Nebraska
Jared Barnett - Hit. I think. He was limited and never good enough for what Herman wanted.
Sam Richardson - Hit. Good enough to start for multiple years. I think coaching and the team overall held him back
Grant Rohach - Miss.
Steele Mother ******* Jantz - Hit. From what was expected from him, he did a lot.
Joel Lanning - Hit. Did everything he could for the team, including play LBer. Also had a game for the ages against TTU at QB.
Park - Hit then Miss.
Noland - Hit-ish
Moore - Miss, but was never expected to be a starter
Kempt - Hit
Purdy - Hit
Dean - TBD
Re-al Mitchell - TBD
I feel you. I just like talking football as well. You're looking at overall contribution and I'm looking at expectation vs reality, which takes into account players like Moore who were never expected to be the next starter.
Park is definitely a **** up. No doubt there. Million dollar arm, ten cent head.
Noland, I wouldn't count his 1-3 record too much against him. That Iowa game was a **** show from the second Kempt went down. Not all on Zeb. I think he was good enough to get it done at ISU, just got beat out.
Plus, how can you hate a guy with the name ZEB! WInner!
Iowa has had a lot of high school QBs that they convert into starting DBs and receivers - some even at an all conference level. Are they all misses because they change positions?
Noland only needed to beat out Trey Lance, whose 247 Composite was 3 star 0.8104.
With respect to NDSU, I think their fan base guided this decision to play Lance over Noland. Lance also probably fits the offense they have been running. But in any case, I think the new Head Coach is banking on not pissing off the fans by keeping the formula as faithful to the old system as possible. And the NDSU fans ARE quite convinced that their football team is BETTER than any football team outside of the very top tier of the SEC. And the Fargo team is pressing for the sports conquest of the biggest city they know by playing a game in Minneapolis (and while the Gophers are being torn up by the tug of war between their own Alumni and supporters, NDSU may be the most popular school with sporting events in Minneapolis). Anyhow, among the NDSU alumni that I knew, there was a very anti-Iowa and Iowa State bias (also very anti-Nebraska). So it may actually work in Zeb's advantage to be coming off the bench when the kid from Marshall Minnesota screws up. It was clear to me that those I knew who are NDSU supporters had their noses turned up in the air about Zeb being allowed to transfer to their team.
I believe cyhiphop is being very generous with his hits. Barnett, Richardson, Lanning, Jantz and Noland as hits. Very curious on all those. Winning one big game doesn't make you a hit (OSU). Richardson would have been great in basketball with his bounce passes. Lanning was a great LB. Jantz was a human turnover machine and I don't know how Noland is a hitish.
Same, but i have no love for the rhoads era
Was Jalen Hurts a bust at Alabama?
I think whether they are a miss or not really depends on the staff’s own evaluation and plan for them when they brought them in. Of course, anyone who contributes is not a recruiting miss. But it could be a QB evaluation miss if at the time they were recruited, the staff had no other positions in mind for them and something just happened to work out.
I think it seems like Dean could be a miss, specifically at QB, because he was brought in to be the QB of this class at the time he committed and this quick of a position change seems somewhat shocking. But some major things have changed since he committed. Brock has shown the type of player that he can be, and we’ve added a 2nd well regarded QB commitment to the 2020 class in Dekkers. Let’s just hope Easton is able to have a successful career at Iowa State, regardless of position.
This is all wait and see for me. Based on our history, almost every QB in the modern era (save maybe Sage) has regressed in their time here. Maybe it's just perception because they came in with hype, but it seems like Meyer, Arnaud, Richardson, & Lanning were better as FR/SO than they were as SRs. And those are the only ones off the top of my head that lasted all 4 years. The rest regressed by default because they left.
I'm pretty confident Brock breaks the trend.
I agree Joel Lanning definitely regressed as a quarterback his senior year. He was only good enough to play spot duty, just terrible.
What a bust. Jesus.
I think the bolded is key. NDSU's offense seemed to require their QBs to be fairly mobile, if not pretty athletic. Even going back to Craig Bohl days, Brock Jensen ran for 300-500 yards, and Carson Wentz the same. Easton Stick was pretty athletic (4.62 40yd) so Lance probably just knows and fits their current offense more. Maybb Zeb has some potential to run if needed, but from what I've seen I wouldn't put him under a "mobile QB" category. Their new OC is a former NDSU player and has been their assistant for past 5 years too, so I can't imagine their style changing any time soon.
Yes. He was moved because he lost his starting job. I never said he was a bust as a player, but he didn't progress as a QB as most of us hoped he would did he? Move turned out great for everyone, but doesn't make my post less accurate.