Offensive Coordinator

[cyhiphopp]

Scott Frost was getting some love from the announcers last night. I still would be open to him. Though I feel we would lose him eventually to the huskers if he had success...

I like the Scott Frost idea in theory. It would be spectacular if we could effectively run an offense similar to Oregons.
However, I don't know if he can deliver that offense.
He also does not have experience as a playcaller. Look how good we were with someone with playcalling experience.
Finally, I don't know if we can run that offense without the Oregon caliber athletes.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Speaking of huskers, I have a question after the last couple NU games I have watched. Why would any kid (or kids' father want his kid) want to play for Pelini. The guy is a major jack***. Screaming and yelling about everything. I know husker fans were clamoring for him, but is this what they wanted?

They play for him because they want to win at NU. However, if they don't start winning conference championships or more, it will start to get really old. It's actually already wearing a bit thin with a lot of NU supporters. But they will still keep him around as long as he keeps winning.

Prediction. If NU has a meltdown in the next few years and goes 7-5 or worse, Pelini will be out of there. It reminds me a lot of KU with Mangino. He was always a blowhard and a hothead, but it was ok when they were winning. The first losing season and they found a way to get rid of him.

 

[VTXCyRyD]

Minor quibble here, but you need an IQ of 130 to be a Mensa member and an IQ of 150 to be a genius. It's a significant difference -- far more than the difference between a certified idiot and tavernhawk on the other end of the spectrum.

So it goes like this?

tavernhawk < certified idiot < Mensa member < genius

I can only assume that tavern hawks are lower than certified idiots because all tavern hawks are idiots, but not all idiots are tavern hawks

 

[aute19]

So it goes like this?

tavernhawk < certified idiot < Mensa member < genius

I can only assume that tavern hawks are lower than certified idiots because all tavern hawks are idiots, but not all idiots are tavern hawks

I know a lot of uncertified idiots. Where do they fall?

 

[CloneFan4]

Not sure about the Scott Frost idea. We really do not have the type of athletes to run Oregon's Offense. With Richardson and Rohach coming in a spread option attack doesn't look attainable for the future. I think Franklin would be a good get.

 

[CyValley]

I honestly have no idea why Urban Meyer hired him. . . . I like JB, and I think he has a lot of potential, but I don't think his development has been that spectacular. Meyer said he wanted to assemble the best staff in college football. Not so sure on that one.

Maybe I am just bitter right now because our offense stunk in the bowl game. I really want TH to do well, but I wish he had accomplished more at ISU first.

Not arguing specifically with you, cyhiphopp, just wish to make a general comment or two.

Has anyone on this board won a BCS national championship? We human animals assume constantly (in a recent book by the NYT's David Brooks, he reports the human mind can make 11 million subconcious calculations . . . was it per second? . . . about the world about us; we live by our assumptions), so I assume, reasonably, seems to me, Meyer knows what he's doing.

Barney Cotton did well at Nebraska, before and after his stint in Ames. Is he a lousy coach, or perhaps was the problem at Iowa State?

Herman did well as an OC at Texas State and Rice and now has been hired by a big-name coach at a legendary football program. Is Herman a lousy coach, or perhaps it's that Iowa State's student-athletes aren't yet capable of consistent achievement against Big 12 opponents?

Most of us believe, I think, that CPR has done a whale of a job in his three years at ISU. The young players CPR's staff has recruited are just making their ways into the starting lineup.

Our best OLinemen -- KO and Hicks -- are not the mobile, running type upfront guys CPR wants (see his several OSU Oline statements). Both quarterbacks are first year guys at the Div. 1A level. Lots of gripes here on the board about our WR's not able to get open, about the group's tendency to drop balls.

A coach -- any coach -- can only do so much, transform a player only so far. Probably why so many say the name of the college football game is recruiting.

Personally, I don't point a finger at Herman; I point the finger at the Cyclone program. We have to lure ever-better football athletes to Iowa State. Recruiting is the fundamental element on which successful programs are built. We are not built, we are abuilding. We are an immature program. We are gathering the necessary pieces but it is yet too early to expect high success.

As always, my assessment is probably wrong. It is what it is, though.

 

[CykoAGR]

Not arguing specifically with you, cyhiphopp, just wish to make a general comment or two.

Has anyone on this board won a BCS national championship? We human animals assume constantly (in a recent book by the NYT's David Brooks, he reports the human mind can make 11 million subconcious calculations . . . was it per second? . . . about the world about us; we live by our assumptions), so I assume, reasonably, seems to me, Meyer knows what he's doing.

Barney Cotton did well at Nebraska, before and after his stint in Ames. Is he a lousy coach, or perhaps was the problem at Iowa State?

Herman did well as an OC at Texas State and Rice and now has been hired by a big-name coach at a legendary football program. Is Herman a lousy coach, or perhaps it's that Iowa State's student-athletes aren't yet capable of consistent achievement against Big 12 opponents?

Most of us believe, I think, that CPR has done a whale of a job in his three years at ISU. The young players CPR's staff has recruited are just making their ways into the starting lineup.

Our best OLinemen -- KO and Hicks -- are not the mobile, running type upfront guys CPR wants (see his several OSU Oline statements). Both quarterbacks are first year guys at the Div. 1A level. Lots of gripes here on the board about our WR's not able to get open, about the group's tendency to drop balls.

A coach -- any coach -- can only do so much, transform a player only so far. Probably why so many say the name of the college football game is recruiting.

Personally, I don't point a finger at Herman; I point the finger at the Cyclone program. We have to lure ever-better football athletes to Iowa State. Recruiting is the fundamental element on which successful programs are built. We are not built, we are abuilding. We are an immature program. We are gathering the necessary pieces but it is yet too early to expect high success.

As always, my assessment is probably wrong. It is what it is, though.

Rep for this.

Meyer is a proven coach and must know how to evaluate the ability of his staff as he has had success everywhere he went. I trust that he believes that TH can and WILL succeed with a higher level of talent that tOSU will have compared to most of their opponents.

From my observations and the chatter from others on here (not sure if trusting that is a good idea but I digress) TH seemed reluctant to adapt what he was trying to do to the strenghts of his players. It seems that he felt his theory is that the offensive scheme is more powerful when it is operated in a certian way and that is how he called the plays/operated the system instead of looking for a way to take advantage of the opportunites that the Defense presented vs the players that he was able to put on the field. I will give him some credit that the lack of execution (penalties, Turnovers, drops etc) probably put him in a bad position. However at what point does that become the coaches fault for not correcting the problem?


tOSU will have superior talent at almost all positions than ISU, Urban must believe that the system is strong and that it was the talent that was the problem. Plus Im sure that Urban will be heavily involved in the gameplanning etc.

 

[VeloClone]

Not arguing specifically with you, cyhiphopp, just wish to make a general comment or two.

Has anyone on this board won a BCS national championship? We human animals assume constantly (in a recent book by the NYT's David Brooks, he reports the human mind can make 11 million subconcious calculations . . . was it per second? . . . about the world about us; we live by our assumptions), so I assume, reasonably, seems to me, Meyer knows what he's doing.

Barney Cotton did well at Nebraska, before and after his stint in Ames. Is he a lousy coach, or perhaps was the problem at Iowa State?

Herman did well as an OC at Texas State and Rice and now has been hired by a big-name coach at a legendary football program. Is Herman a lousy coach, or perhaps it's that Iowa State's student-athletes aren't yet capable of consistent achievement against Big 12 opponents?

Most of us believe, I think, that CPR has done a whale of a job in his three years at ISU. The young players CPR's staff has recruited are just making their ways into the starting lineup.

Our best OLinemen -- KO and Hicks -- are not the mobile, running type upfront guys CPR wants (see his several OSU Oline statements). Both quarterbacks are first year guys at the Div. 1A level. Lots of gripes here on the board about our WR's not able to get open, about the group's tendency to drop balls.

A coach -- any coach -- can only do so much, transform a player only so far. Probably why so many say the name of the college football game is recruiting.

Personally, I don't point a finger at Herman; I point the finger at the Cyclone program. We have to lure ever-better football athletes to Iowa State. Recruiting is the fundamental element on which successful programs are built. We are not built, we are abuilding. We are an immature program. We are gathering the necessary pieces but it is yet too early to expect high success.

As always, my assessment is probably wrong. It is what it is, though.

Maybe I can summarize this by paraphrasing Johnny Orr: "You gotta have the horses, man!"

 

[cyhiphopp]

Not arguing specifically with you, cyhiphopp, just wish to make a general comment or two.

Has anyone on this board won a BCS national championship? We human animals assume constantly (in a recent book by the NYT's David Brooks, he reports the human mind can make 11 million subconcious calculations . . . was it per second? . . . about the world about us; we live by our assumptions), so I assume, reasonably, seems to me, Meyer knows what he's doing.

Barney Cotton did well at Nebraska, before and after his stint in Ames. Is he a lousy coach, or perhaps was the problem at Iowa State?

Herman did well as an OC at Texas State and Rice and now has been hired by a big-name coach at a legendary football program. Is Herman a lousy coach, or perhaps it's that Iowa State's student-athletes aren't yet capable of consistent achievement against Big 12 opponents?

Most of us believe, I think, that CPR has done a whale of a job in his three years at ISU. The young players CPR's staff has recruited are just making their ways into the starting lineup.

Our best OLinemen -- KO and Hicks -- are not the mobile, running type upfront guys CPR wants (see his several OSU Oline statements). Both quarterbacks are first year guys at the Div. 1A level. Lots of gripes here on the board about our WR's not able to get open, about the group's tendency to drop balls.

A coach -- any coach -- can only do so much, transform a player only so far. Probably why so many say the name of the college football game is recruiting.

Personally, I don't point a finger at Herman; I point the finger at the Cyclone program. We have to lure ever-better football athletes to Iowa State. Recruiting is the fundamental element on which successful programs are built. We are not built, we are abuilding. We are an immature program. We are gathering the necessary pieces but it is yet too early to expect high success.

As always, my assessment is probably wrong. It is what it is, though.

I hear what you are saying. I just have to assume that Meyer knows something I don't. As far as the offense goes, it's probably a little bit of both. The players have been inconsistent as well as the playcalling. A lot of it is execution, but it is frustrating when you see the players executing and then we see a headscratcher of a playcall come through.
TH had his moments. Tech and OSU were full of very good execution and playcalls. The wheel route to White on the first play of OT vs OSU was awesome and worked perfectly. It seemed obvious that OSU wasn't covering the RB coming out of the backfield and TH set it up perfectly.
But then there were moments like the bowl game, where we came out and rammed it down their throats the first few plays. My friend wathing the game with me then said, "I bet we don't throw the ball at all on this drive." What happened next? 3 straight incompletions and a field goal. JB was obviously a bit rusty but we had them on the ropes and seemed to let them off.


Urban Meyer has a plan and at tOSU, it's probably going to work. Herman will probably be a head coach within 5 years. Possibly a BCS head coach because the Meyer coaching tree is something a lot of ADs want a branch of.

I think TH has had a lot of challenges at ISU. The talent level was not great when he got here and a lot of adjustments had to be made. I think we were a year or two away from really being able to execute THs offense.

Does that mean the TH gets a pass for every shortcoming on offense the last few years? Heck no. He made some adjustments, but a lot of the struggles were due to players trying to conform to his system rather than their strengths. Now that we have players that are more suited to the system, the system is leaving.

I just hope we can find an OC with a similar system who can continue to develop our offensive identity.
The past three years our offensive identity has really been in flux. We ran the ball alot because that was pretty much all that we did well somewhat consistently. Can that be developed into a real offensive identity? Will a new OC be able to mold our young QBs and open up more of the passing game? We'll see I guess.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Not sure about the Scott Frost idea. We really do not have the type of athletes to run Oregon's Offense. With Richardson and Rohach coming in a spread option attack doesn't look attainable for the future. I think Franklin would be a good get.

Darron Thomas ran the ball 56 times this year and 93 last year. It's not like he was the centerpiece of their running game. What they do is make defenses sell out to where the run is supposed to go and then use that against them to do other things. We can do that. Sure, Oregon has great backs however with the way they do what they do, they would be successful with White and Johnson.

 

[Al_4_State]

Rep for this.

Meyer is a proven coach and must know how to evaluate the ability of his staff as he has had success everywhere he went. I trust that he believes that TH can and WILL succeed with a higher level of talent that tOSU will have compared to most of their opponents.

From my observations and the chatter from others on here (not sure if trusting that is a good idea but I digress) TH seemed reluctant to adapt what he was trying to do to the strenghts of his players. It seems that he felt his theory is that the offensive scheme is more powerful when it is operated in a certian way and that is how he called the plays/operated the system instead of looking for a way to take advantage of the opportunites that the Defense presented vs the players that he was able to put on the field. I will give him some credit that the lack of execution (penalties, Turnovers, drops etc) probably put him in a bad position. However at what point does that become the coaches fault for not correcting the problem?


tOSU will have superior talent at almost all positions than ISU, Urban must believe that the system is strong and that it was the talent that was the problem. Plus Im sure that Urban will be heavily involved in the gameplanning etc.

This is how I feel about Herman. He's clearly a bright and talented offensive mind who will succeed with unlimited talent (which he'll have at his disposal) but he was not very adept at building his scheme to suit the players and matchups he had.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Rep for this.

Meyer is a proven coach and must know how to evaluate the ability of his staff as he has had success everywhere he went. I trust that he believes that TH can and WILL succeed with a higher level of talent that tOSU will have compared to most of their opponents.

From my observations and the chatter from others on here (not sure if trusting that is a good idea but I digress) TH seemed reluctant to adapt what he was trying to do to the strenghts of his players. It seems that he felt his theory is that the offensive scheme is more powerful when it is operated in a certian way and that is how he called the plays/operated the system instead of looking for a way to take advantage of the opportunites that the Defense presented vs the players that he was able to put on the field. I will give him some credit that the lack of execution (penalties, Turnovers, drops etc) probably put him in a bad position. However at what point does that become the coaches fault for not correcting the problem?


tOSU will have superior talent at almost all positions than ISU, Urban must believe that the system is strong and that it was the talent that was the problem. Plus Im sure that Urban will be heavily involved in the gameplanning etc.

Agreed. Also, they will not be running Hermans system at tOSU, they will be running Meyers and I believe Meyer is going to be calling the plays with input from TH. I think Meyer hired TH because he thinks TH can teach the Meyer system since THs system is similar. Meyer can then pick Hermans brain and they can game plan together. I'm almost sure it will work out for them and TH will learn a lot about playcalling.

In essence, it's like TH is the Co-OC to Meyer. When I think about it that way, it makes sense that Meyer wasn't able to pull in a more established OC. Not a ton of guys want to lose control of the offense, but for TH, it will be a huge resume boost.

 

[cyhiphopp]

This is how I feel about Herman. He's clearly a bright and talented offensive mind who will succeed with unlimited talent (which he'll have at his disposal) but he was not very adept at building his scheme to suit the players and matchups he had.

I will give TH credit for running the damn ball instead of trying to throw it around a lot. We've had the talent to run the ball and it worked well at times and minimized our weaknesses at QB.

It just seems like the offense very rarely "clicked" which was frustrating and partly due to players and coaching (in my estimation).

 

[CykoAGR]

Agreed. Also, they will not be running Hermans system at tOSU, they will be running Meyers and I believe Meyer is going to be calling the plays with input from TH. I think Meyer hired TH because he thinks TH can teach the Meyer system since THs system is similar. Meyer can then pick Hermans brain and they can game plan together. I'm almost sure it will work out for them and TH will learn a lot about playcalling.

In essence, it's like TH is the Co-OC to Meyer. When I think about it that way, it makes sense that Meyer wasn't able to pull in a more established OC. Not a ton of guys want to lose control of the offense, but for TH, it will be a huge resume boost.

I thing the Bold is exactly what happened. Meyer was looking for someone with experience with a similar system that would be "OK" with not having complete control of the offense and TH saw the opportunity and jumped at it. Couple that with the fact that he probably had one year left to prove that his system could work at ISU (assumption by me), if he failed and was fired by CPR then he is relegated back to a position coach at BCS level or a OC in a non AQ conf and basically starts over.

 

[JUKEBOX]

I want an old guy like Wally who is really good at what he does.

 

[cyhiphopp]

I thing the Bold is exactly what happened. Meyer was looking for someone with experience with a similar system that would be "OK" with not having complete control of the offense and TH saw the opportunity and jumped at it. Couple that with the fact that he probably had one year left to prove that his system could work at ISU (assumption by me), if he failed and was fired by CPR then he is relegated back to a position coach at BCS level or a OC in a non AQ conf and basically starts over.

Yeah, it was a win/win situation for Herman and tOSU.

We will have to see where ISU comes out in all of it. If we get the right guy, it could be win/win/win. If not, we are set back a few more years on offense, which would suck.


Side note: This is one thing that really worried me when thinking about the potential for CPR at ISU. I thought that he needed to be able to retain his coaches to prevent setbacks in the programs development. ISU has historically not had the money to keep a good coach when another program comes calling. Also, with the way college football works nowadays, assistant coaches want to have that added experience on their resume and prestige is a big factor in that.
Part of Dan McCarneys downfall was due to bad coaching hires, specifically offensive coordinators. CPR needs to hit a homerun with this next hire or it will limit our success in the near future.

 

[isufbcurt]

What would you guys think of an scenario where we had Co-coordinators in Frost and Messingham?

 

[cyhiphopp]

What would you guys think of an scenario where we had Co-coordinators in Frost and Messingham?

:idea:

Hmm, interesting idea. Not sure if we get Frost without the OC title and money though. Not sure if we have enough to give Mess a raise and pay enough from Frost either. But I like the idea.
Messingham called plays as Missouri State so that could help. It would also facilitate merging the current offense with what Frost could bring from Oregon.

I really want them to build on the run-first spread that ISU has been able to execute. Oregon is one of the best offenses with that style.

:yes: It gives me chills thinking about ISU running anything close to the Oregon offense.
Combine that with Wally Burnham continuing to develop the defense and I think we win a lot of games in the future.

 

[isuforlife]

Scott Frost is not the reason Oregon has a good offense, can't believe he gets hype on here

 

[RustShack]

TH will be OC in name only. He will be their QB coach and Co-OC with Meyer, while Meyer calls the plays.

As for our OC, I hope he gets hired soon. Tony Franklin might be too perfect of a fit for it to actually be him. But no matter who it is, I hope they have a very similar spread offense. Our offense wasn't the problem, it was the players in the offense and the execution. Yeah it does kinda suck that we didn't play to our players strengths... but I agree its a change that had to be made. If we want to compete in the Big12 switching to the spread was our best bet.

I believe Herman would have had some success here once the players this staff recruited reached their junior and senior years and so on.. we will start seeing more and more of those players in the next few years and the new OC will be the one who reaps the benefits from it.