Can't answer the question can you. You lose all credibility when you run from legit questions.
I'm sorry to say it, but there needs to be some questions on Herman as OC
- Thread starter sdcyfan
- Start date
The Niles Paul fumble? Seriosuly, that was completely inexcusable on his part. The rest we probably did, but the fact still stands that it was an outlier. That doesn't just happen. Great effort by the team in very tough circumstances. I'm not trying to take anything away from that. I am just saying I don't think it should be used by itself as evidence for anything other than the fact CPR can get kids to work their ***** off.
Most hok fans i know still don't like O'Keefe. They know iowa wins because of defense
It is hard for me to say that but on offense, I cannot think of a player that is playing better this year than last except Franklin and possibly Money who were both hurt. if someone can give me examples I would gladly back off that statement. And I am not talking iowa, utah, and OU. Look at the TT, NIU, KSU, and UNI games and tell me who is playing better this year than last. Maybe our guys are limited and have reached their potential.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
You named the only one we aren't involved in.
That's a great win. Stick with that. There isn't any reason to call it lucky or unlucky. It's one of those great sports days, and we earned it.
Nobody is saying it isn't a great win. We are arguing with Tornadoman who says comparing ISU vs Nebraska this year to last year will indicate whether or not we are a better/worse team. That is pure idiocy. Different year, and the 09' ISU/Nebraska game is a statistical outlier. it was a great win and a great effort but it is still a statistical outlier when looking at the season as a whole.
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I guess it depends on how much you think football is a team sport. No one player is playing worse than last year. When you get regression at QB (due to injury), and at 40% of your Oline (not due to player regressing), you will not see much improvement elsewhere. Add a more difficult schedule- and moderate improvement by individuals will go unnoticed by fans.
Two new starters on the line. Those two being not as good as those they replaced can regress the units play, without having any player regress individually. The Oline taking a step back is likely to make improvement elsewhere hard to see.
AA is the same imo, but now that he is injured, he cannot utilize his strengths (which also regresses the line play). Darks, Money, and even Sed are individually better, but an increase 3 and outs (from aforementioned) does not allow the passing game to be relevant. I do think Arob has regressed independent of the line. He is not as quick, and missing more holes.
Ignoring the Iowa, Utah, and OU games, I think one could say the offense has progressed. The remaining schedule still represents better opponents than what we played lat year:
-No argument needed for TT
-NIU was a much better opening game team than last years NDSU . Without looking at the stats, the offense struggled less than it did a year ago imo. Only AA and penalties holding it back.
-KSU of this year is better than KSU of last year imo.
-UNI is probably on the same level as Army/Kent State last year
-Clearly Utah is better than Kent State/Army
Again, I do not look at Utah, OU, and IA. In the rest of the games, we have receivers dropping balls that they caught last year. Guys that had sure hands last year even against better competition. I am talking makeable catches against inferior or equal talent. Simple catches that a D1 receiver is expected to make. We have RBs that are missing holes that they hit last year. The coaches have said as much. The holes are there but we miss them. We have a QB that is the same as last year. The OL obviously took a hit with graduation and attrition but one of the three returners is not playing at the level he was last year. He has more penalties, and is consistenttly being beat by speed rushes. This happened against tNIU, UNI, KSU and TT. the other two are hard to judge because of the changes but Iw ould say they are status quo.
Sure it is easy to say the shcedule is tougher but the guys I am talking about performed at a higher level all season last year. They did it agaisnt our poor opponents and our better opponents. And it isn't like they are getting beat up. This has been hapening since game 1. You cannot tell me that you haven't been disappointed in KOs play against NIU, KSU, and UNI. The guy had 5 penalties in the red zone. Last year he was dominant, this year he is getting beat by the speed rush and by stunts.
Again, taking out Utah, Iowa, and OU, the schedule is still harder. In other words, line the games up 1-7, and every comparison is in favor of this year.
I personally do not see more drops, I see worse throws. The WR have played better against competition (even sans OU, Utah, and Iowa).
Imo, you are severely discounting the team aspect of the game. The players overall game could be better, but if everyone rotates who screws up, it is for naught.
KO has not regressed. After the Iowa game, Mel Kiper made a comment about how good of match-up KO and Clayborn was. He has watched tape of this year, and still has him ranked highly. He handles the speed rush the same as always. Stunts have given him trouble- which is largely because stunts do not work as well when you have a line with Stephens and Haughton. Teams ran far fewer stunts last year.
It is not like that he was going to change much. His game was predicated on meaning a big dude- another year in the S&C was going to have marginal return. Penalties are largely at the discretion of the ref.
Talk about regression.....
Austen Arnaud
2008 - 2,792 yds 15 td's 10 int's
2009 - 2,015 yds 14 td's 13 int's
2010 - 1,817 yds 14 td's 12 int's (projected final stats)
58.1% completions in a spread offense is simply put.... awful.
Completion percentage by quarter...
1st - 62.5%
2nd - 60.9%
3rd - 55.6 %
4th - 51.4%
Now compare with these stats of a QB in a similar offensive system with similar or questionably lessor talent around him...
Ben Chappell - Indiana Hoosiers QB
2008 - 1,001 yds 4 td's 3 int's
2009 - 2,941 yds 17 td's 15 int's
2010 - 3,716 yds 32 td's 6 int's (pojected final stats)
68.7% completions in a spread is more like it.
Completion percentage by quarter....
1st - 65.1%
2nd - 73.6%
3rd - 67.9%
4th - 66.7%
Anybody else see a HUGE difference in what QB play can do for an offense? Indiana was 4-8 in 2009 but if you look closely they were fairly competitive in most of the games they lost. (Defensive issues?) Lost to Michigan 36-33, Ohio State 33-14, Northwestern 29-28, Iowa 42-24 (defense gave up 4 td's in 4th quarter), Wisconsin 31-28, and Penn State 31-20. So far they are 4-2 this season with losses to Michigan 42-35 and Ohio State 38-10. Obviously this shows that the QB can't do it all on their own but with competent QB play the team has a chance to compete. It sure beats the hell out of losses like Iowa 35-3, Iowa 35-7, Oklahoma State 34-8, Utah 68-27, and OU 52-0.
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Avoided this because it is too divisive issue, but the best I can say is AA is the same.
I suppose it is possible every receiver has a case of the drops, but it far more likely AA is more inaccurate than last year.
In defense of AA, last year, we had a very good Oline imo. I am sure the drop there has impacted him some. The increase in SOS has not helped.
Those things are certainly true. I was just simply trying to show that other QB's with similar talent around them that also play quality competition like ISU does still have success and make progress in their play on the field. Chappell has improved dramatically from year to year while playing against quality opposition. Indiana has also been able to be competitive against teams that have a much higher talent level then they do. There is a definite link between the two. With Arnaud you can see a consistent decline from year to year and against the top level teams in the BIG XII his numbers dive even lower. Our competitive disadvantage against those talented teams grows larger because of our offense's inability to move the football. As the Indiana comparison shows.... quality QB play makes a HUGE difference in a teams ability to compete. There is a razor sharp margin between being competitive and getting blown off the football field. With our poor QB play it is like walking into a gun fight with a 6 shooter but only 1 bullet in the chamber. Good QB play is having that gun fully loaded and while you may not win the game you at least having a fighting chance to take your shots and go down in a freaking blaze of glory.
It was impressive. Even more impressive is how many times the hawks have played on New years or later with 2 and 3 stars.
You have got to love the ease of Big 10, no conference title game, and great bowl contracts. Big 12 fans need to have more children.
- If you don't see more drops then we will have to agree to disagree. Drops are equal or worse and the coaches have stated as much. I will trust their judgement. I am talking about balls that hit receivers square in the hands. The same catches those guys made last year. I understand you want to blame them all on AA but that is not the case. A receiver should be expected to make a catch if it is delivered head high to waist high.
- KO has regressed. KO did great against Clayborn but not agaisnt Klug. Last year he handled both very well. KO has many more penalties this year than last and those are against teams like KSU, UNI, NIU. Those penalties are happening because he is getting beat and mentally he is not there. False starts are not the discretion of the ref. That is silly to put his penalties on the ref. I can think of one of those penalties that was questionable. The left side of our line didn't change and Lamaak has done fine at center. Lamaak has been our most consistent OL and has done a great job. Stephens dismissal doesn't affect KO as much as it does Alvarez and Alvarez has been the same this year. KO should not get better but he should be consistent against all opponents if he is a top 5 tackle. His errors have killed drives this year. Killed them. Hell, he ran into ARob on the screen agaisnt KSU. I don't know how anyone could watch the UNI and NIU games and not think KO has regressed.
- Mel Kiper is an idiot and is wrong more times than he is right. Excuse me if i don't trust his evaluation as I think I have seen KO more than Mel Kiper. I would bet that Kiper watched film of KO play Clayborn and that is about it. Kiper's shadiness is very apparent when reading the SI article on agents paying players. I love these draft experts. They make predictions and are never right and yet people continue to praise their ignorance as if their opinion is fact.
- I am not competely buying the schedule being harder outside of Utah and OU. We are talking our offense and other teams defense. Iowa is the same team(they replaced three NFL players on defense), KSU is the same team(their run defense is worse than ours), UNI is as bad as anyone we played last year (NDSU and UNI defenses are ranked similar), TT is not good this year. In particular,TT's defense sucks and is ranked (102) almost as bad as ours. NIU is the one and only exception and we actually played one of our better games against them. So no we haven't played tougher defenses except Utah and OU.
- I see you don't mention RBs missing holes. CPR has commented on how ARob is missing holes that he saw last year. That is not me making it up. again, i will trust CpR's judgement.
Actually, every receiver not named Reynolds has multiple drops this year. And I am using the true definition of drops. That could not be said at the end of the season last year let alone half way through the season. You guys act like the guys are trying to make tough catches. They aren't. A ball a little behind or a little high is pretty common in college football. Throwing a ball up for a receiver to make a play is common in college. I wathced Auburn/Arkansas play the other night. newton and Mallet are both top ten in passing efficiency and yet their receivers baile dhtme out more than once. Then when Wilson came in, Akas=nsas receiver really bailed him out.
It is funny how people don't realize that out of the 4 TDs caught in the TT game, only one was caught by a starter. The other three were caught by Hammerschmidt, Lenz, and Reynolds. Where were the starters? Leading receivers were Franklin, Reynolds and Lenz. Where were Darks, Johnson and Williams in our teams most productive offensive output? It is an interesting question.
Maybe rotating out? I see NOTHING interesting about that.
Did you see those catches? No wonder we have so many "drops".
AA is one of he most inaccurate spread offense QB in college football.
LOL...you are assuming that he has complete control of those stats. What happens when a receiver drops a ball? Does that affect completion%? What happens when that drop happens on 3rd down and stalls a drive causing a 3 and out? Does that affect the ability to get yardage?Talk about regression.....
Austen Arnaud
2008 - 2,792 yds 15 td's 10 int's
2009 - 2,015 yds 14 td's 13 int's
2010 - 1,817 yds 14 td's 12 int's (projected final stats)
58.1% completions in a spread offense is simply put.... awful.
Completion percentage by quarter...
1st - 62.5%
2nd - 60.9%
3rd - 55.6 %
4th - 51.4%
Now compare with these stats of a QB in a similar offensive system with similar or questionably lessor talent around him...
Ben Chappell - Indiana Hoosiers QB
2008 - 1,001 yds 4 td's 3 int's
2009 - 2,941 yds 17 td's 15 int's
2010 - 3,716 yds 32 td's 6 int's (pojected final stats)
68.7% completions in a spread is more like it.
Completion percentage by quarter....
1st - 65.1%
2nd - 73.6%
3rd - 67.9%
4th - 66.7%
Anybody else see a HUGE difference in what QB play can do for an offense? Indiana was 4-8 in 2009 but if you look closely they were fairly competitive in most of the games they lost. (Defensive issues?) Lost to Michigan 36-33, Ohio State 33-14, Northwestern 29-28, Iowa 42-24 (defense gave up 4 td's in 4th quarter), Wisconsin 31-28, and Penn State 31-20. So far they are 4-2 this season with losses to Michigan 42-35 and Ohio State 38-10. Obviously this shows that the QB can't do it all on their own but with competent QB play the team has a chance to compete. It sure beats the hell out of losses like Iowa 35-3, Iowa 35-7, Oklahoma State 34-8, Utah 68-27, and OU 52-0.
Let me ask a question or two...Who is ISU's possession receiver this year? Who is the one guy that you know you can go to to make a catch/tough catch to extend a drive? I am talking WR.
2010- Franklin..a TE.
2009- Hamilton, Williams (very sure hands last year but not as much this year)
2008- Sumrall, Hamilton, and even Jones
See the difference.
The biggest critisizm I can have for Herman is not getting the ball to Franklin often enough. NFL-caliber player, clearly the best receiving option we have - and he's not seeing the football near the number of times he should be.
Agree, except how do we know our offense is capable of that? Defenses do not have to respect the deep ball, so things are pretty crowded where a TE typically roams. Not good for a QB like AA.
I would like to see more plays like the Hammer, touchdown. Use Franklin to open up things that we can do.
