I think Messinghams more simplified playbook and emphasis on teaching will help both QBs.
How would you compare JB to SJ
- Thread starter FootballinTexas
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I think Messinghams more simplified playbook and emphasis on teaching will help both QBs.
CyDude, I'm just going to answer khaal53 with a question....He asked which one was less of a turnover risk. Here's my question, Is a fumble a turnover if the ball is not "turned over" unlike INT's when it's very clear that the other team has the ball? One more, is it luck for the defense if they recover a fumble or only when the offense recovers their own fumble? No debate, Just asking.
At the end of the day, both QB's have a lot to work on, especially with the turnover area.....Spin it how you want.
Nope, not a turnover. For the record, I really don't care who emerges as the QB as long as one of them does. I picked JB as my team MVP last year based solely of how the season swung when he was inserted as the starter.
A fumble that isn't lost isn't a turnover, obviously. But, I wouldn't expect to only lose 3 fumbles when you're putting it ont he ground 11 times. That is almost freaky how few were lost. It is also freaky that all 3 of Jantz's fumbles were lost (and off the top of my head 1 of those was the snap he wasn't ready for against Iowa).
jantz is stronger and faster, barnett might be slightly more accurate but its close however he's a better decision maker and doesn't try to put the ball in somewhere where he can't deliver it as much as jantz, plus jantz fumbles a lot.
Cydude, I don't disagree that both need to improve on "protecting" the ball. I was just asking for clarification on what's a turnover because based on his post, my understanding was wrong.
I'm not debating who I think is best for our system. That's obvious. I just thought we could kill some time today talking QB's using some NFL criteria. BTW, turnovers were not one of the 5 things listed in the video.
To accurately evaluate fumbles, I think you would have to look at them on an individual basis.
That's probably the case with everything, right?
Completion percentage doesn't factor in drops but we use it all the time. Interceptions doesn't account for balls that were tipped by receivers yet we use it all the time.
I agree that in a perfect world the stats would accommodate for all of those variances but they don't.
I do know that at least two of Barnett's fumbles came off of a miscommunication from the zone read, as well (off the top of my head).
JB makes his decision to run quicker while SJ looks like he is still deciding if he should run.
Good info from Khaal as you usual.
Turnovers are tough unless you look at them individually. There are some passes that should be intercepted that aren't. Or some passes where the WR drops them and are picked off, or perhaps a bad route. Same with fumbles.
In the end I hope Messingham relates better to our QB's and we see a lot of improvement.
Turnovers are tough unless you look at them individually. There are some passes that should be intercepted that aren't. Or some passes where the WR drops them and are picked off, or perhaps a bad route. Same with fumbles.
In the end I hope Messingham relates better to our QB's and we see a lot of improvement.
Lol Apparently u didnt look at khaal's turnover #'s between the 2 Qb's. JB fumbles alot more than SJ.
I like both, but think SJ gives us better opportunities with his arm and JB makes better general decisions.
With the throws and picks, most of what I remember was SJ over throwing receivers or just forcing it. JB seemed to bounce it in short. He kind of reminded me of McNabb that way. Otherwise, when he did overthrow it was in the stands almost.
JB's working of the zone read seemed to work well. Except for the bowl game. The couple plays right before he got pulled, he seemed to have his choice predetermined. Something you can't do in this. After SJ got hurt, it looked like they told him to hand off unless he absolutely couldn't.
Overall, I feel a lot better about this position than in the last 10-15 years. I feel we can win with either in and if one goes down we have a guy with good experience who won't just not lose the game for us but can win it.
With the throws and picks, most of what I remember was SJ over throwing receivers or just forcing it. JB seemed to bounce it in short. He kind of reminded me of McNabb that way. Otherwise, when he did overthrow it was in the stands almost.
JB's working of the zone read seemed to work well. Except for the bowl game. The couple plays right before he got pulled, he seemed to have his choice predetermined. Something you can't do in this. After SJ got hurt, it looked like they told him to hand off unless he absolutely couldn't.
Overall, I feel a lot better about this position than in the last 10-15 years. I feel we can win with either in and if one goes down we have a guy with good experience who won't just not lose the game for us but can win it.
If I were comparing the most important thing between the two of them, it would be luck. SJ is unlucky compared to JB. I don't think either of them holds on to the ball particualarly well, it's just that SJ's all come at one time, putting the team in a bigger hole. JB's all seemed to happen over the course of a game, so it's easier to recover 3 turnovers during the course of the gameone turnover at a time, than it is to come back from 3 right in a row. The only real difference I saw, is that JB was rarely playing back from a dep hole.
Accuracy: Neither Probably the biggest reason to have some concern with our QB situation.
Arm Strength: Jantz. Not close.
Touch: Barnett.
Decision Making: Barnett.
Athleticism: Jantz
Running the ball: Jantz(Healthy), although close.
Play making ability: Jantz.
Arm Strength: Jantz. Not close.
Touch: Barnett.
Decision Making: Barnett.
Athleticism: Jantz
Running the ball: Jantz(Healthy), although close.
Play making ability: Jantz.
Those five categories render what is basically a push, so I'm going to add another category.
Intangibles: I give that to Barnett. Yes SJ had some great comebacks the first 3 games of the year but I thought the team as a whole responded better to JB. If SJ gets it right between the ears, he has the most upside (as others have mentioned), but I think JB gives the team a better chance to win.
Jantz was overthrowing guys by 10ft plus in the bowl game. I think one of his passes landed or almost landed in the stands and he wasn't throwing it away. Just can't shake that from my memory.
Intangibles: I give that to Barnett. Yes SJ had some great comebacks the first 3 games of the year but I thought the team as a whole responded better to JB. If SJ gets it right between the ears, he has the most upside (as others have mentioned), but I think JB gives the team a better chance to win.
Jantz was overthrowing guys by 10ft plus in the bowl game. I think one of his passes landed or almost landed in the stands and he wasn't throwing it away. Just can't shake that from my memory.
Good point about health. I'm looking forward to seeing all of the quarterbacks healthy, with a chance to know the system, and we'll see what happens. I'd have to say that SJ's "decision making" and playmaking elevates at crunch time. When healthy.
...and yet apparently you shook all of JB's horrible throws in the bowl game from memory. Odd.
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