What would it take?

[nickcyv]

IMO, doesn't really matter what happens the rest of the season. Staying is really the only option if we want to win.

That is absolutely ridiculous. The only thing GMAC has proven at ISU is that he is capable of losing at a record pace. The past 4 years have been just terrible. Worse than anyone could even imagine. So, I think there is a HUGE argument to be made that the only option if we want to win, is to fire GMAC the second the loses in the big 12 tourney.

 

[HiltonMagic]

I'm not saying high player turnover is good; it's bad. I'm just saying high coaching turnover is worse. If GMac is let go after this season, that would be 4 coaches in the last decade. That's a program destroyer. We can't keep changing coaches at this rate. ISU became prominent in basketball with a long tenured coach.

So we should keep a crappy coach just because if he's here long enough he might just pull a couple wins out of his ***?

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I guess what I am trying to say is that based on player retention or a lack of player retention you end up with unbalanced talent on the team or a total lack of talent. We used to be able to count on guys we brought into the program being here for 3 or 4 years. Now we can't even count on guys staying for 1 year or even worse.... 1 freaking semester? Now that throws off our recruiting plan for the next year and based on any more departures the year after that. Now we are 4 years in and recruiting a bunch of jucos.... not because we want to, but because we have to find temp fill ins for the mess we have. That isn't building.

 

[VeloClone]

I find it amazing that a quarter of the people participating in this poll find making the final four not enough to save McD's job.:skeptical:

No, I'm not saying that there is a ghost of a chance of that happening, but that is not what the poll asked...

 

[cycloneG]

I guess what I am trying to say is that based on player retention or a lack of player retention you end up with unbalanced talent on the team or a total lack of talent. We used to be able to count on guys we brought into the program being here for 3 or 4 years. Now we can't even count on guys staying for 1 year or even worse.... 1 freaking semester? Now that throws off our recruiting plan for the next year and based on any more departures the year after that. Now we are 4 years in and recruiting a bunch of jucos.... not because we want to, but because we have to find temp fill ins for the mess we have. That isn't building.

You can't really count on 3-4 years of on court production from players anymore. If a player is good enough to produce as a freshman, they'll most likely be gone before they're a senior. If a player isn't able to get onto the court to produce until they're an upperclassman, then they must not be that good. Most likely, you're going to get three years of solid production from a good player. Four year producing players are very rare these days. I want to win, but changing coaches at this rate isn't healthy.

 

[SeattleClone]

I find it amazing that a quarter of the people participating in this poll find making the final four not enough to save McD's job.:skeptical:

No, I'm not saying that there is a ghost of a chance of that happening, but that is not what the poll asked...

Is that more amazing than the fact that the current 2nd place answer is "nothing, he should be fired regardless" meaning, not even a national championship? Just proves that some people are so stubborn they won't even answer a simple question honestly.

 

[CykoAGR]

No...The program wasn't stable when Mac took the job and some people want to revert back after getting some stability. Just doesn't make sense.

I can see your point, 4 years of the same coach does in some cases represent stability. With the recent unfolding of rumors swirling about the coach leaving, how can you deny that this creates some at least question marks in the minds of recruits and fans.

If I'm a recruit or a parent of a recruit that has not committed I would definately wait to make a decision on ISU, or possibly take an offer somewhere else considering that is an option. As a fan when my ticket renawal comes in the mail I have to think long and hard about buying tickets to the "same old show" if GMac is still the coach, that is assuming that I am unhappy with the product (which it seems that you are not but others have become unhappy).

FYI the definition of instability is :the tendency to behave in an unpredictable, changeable, or erratic manner.

I would say that the lack of support shown to GMac by JP is a sign that changes are at least being considered. Otherwise why wouldn't he be going to bat for GMac against the press to combat all of the "rumors" in the media. If I'm GMac this sends a pretty strong signal that I best be looking for a realtor to sell my house in Ames cause I ain't gonna be around long.

 

[VeloClone]

Is that more amazing than the fact that the current 2nd place answer is "nothing, he should be fired regardless" meaning, not even a national championship? Just proves that some people are so stubborn they won't even answer a simple question honestly.

I was including that in the numbers I was referencing, national championship + final four + fired regardless.

It just tells me that a significant portion of the fan base has lost all perspective.

 

[VeloClone]

You can't really count on 3-4 years of on court production from players anymore. If a player is good enough to produce as a freshman, they'll most likely be gone before they're a senior. If a player isn't able to get onto the court to produce until they're an upperclassman, then they must not be that good. Most likely, you're going to get three years of solid production from a good player. Four year producing players are very rare these days. I want to win, but changing coaches at this rate isn't healthy.

I understand your point but I think there are players who are thrust into significant contributions (solid, not all-star contributions) as freshmen due to necessity but will never be NBA draft picks. (See Hamilton.) You should see four years out of them...

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Because you'll have a chunk of buyers who didn't want Mac fired who won't buy. You'll have another chunk who doesn't agree with whoever we hire.

Both of those will absolutely happen.

Bad fan alert! :wideeyed:

 

[cycloneG]

I understand your point but I think there are players who are thrust into significant contributions (solid, not all-star contributions) as freshmen due to necessity but will never be NBA draft picks. (See Hamilton.) You should see four years out of them...

I agree you could get four years out of a player like Hamilton who was starting as a freshman because there was no one else. But if we had an upperclassman at that position, he most likely would have been starting. But the point of my post was that you can't build your program around players because of their relatively short time in the program.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I'm not saying high player turnover is good; it's bad. I'm just saying high coaching turnover is worse. If GMac is let go after this season, that would be 4 coaches in the last decade. That's a program destroyer. We can't keep changing coaches at this rate. ISU became prominent in basketball with a long tenured coach.

I understand. Having a long tenured coach is a great thing. My question is do we keep a guy just to keep him? 4 years with no results but we should keep him just to keep him? So 2 years from now when we still haven't even sniffed the post season what do we do? My point is we have to go out and find the right guy that is a good fit. GMAC fits the ISU mold because he is a great guy with good character and ethics. He doesn't win though.

Take a guy like BG... He is a proven winner and at the major conference level. It is much easier to bring in a guy like that, clean and polish him up, and sell him as a good guy then it is to keep GMAC and while he has the good guy image covered try to sell him as a winner when his results show otherwise.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

With all this talk of "stability" and "guarantee's".....what are two things that have been stable the last four years? Our coach...and the results. What hasn't been stable the last four years? The names and faces of the players. So yes, an argument can be made that a coaching turnover affects stability more than a player turnover.Question is....is this the type of "stability" we want at ISU? Because although bringing in a new coach brings no guarentee's....exactly what guarentee's can be made by keeping GMAC? Other than he is the coach, and we won't be very good. Because prudence would suggest we look to his record at ISU for that answer, and realize that regardless of who is wearing the uniform...when he is coach...the results are the same.

 

[WalkingCY]

With all this talk of "stability" and "guarantee's".....what are two things that have been stable the last four years? Our coach...and the results. What hasn't been stable the last four years? The names and faces of the players. So yes, an argument can be made that a coaching turnover affects stability more than a player turnover.Question is....is this the type of "stability" we want at ISU? Because although bringing in a new coach brings no guarentee's....exactly what guarentee's can be made by keeping GMAC? Other than he is the coach, and we won't be very good. Because prudence would suggest we look to his record at ISU for that answer, and realize that regardless of who is wearing the uniform...when he is coach...the results are the same.

well said.

 

[cycloneG]

I understand. Having a long tenured coach is a great thing. My question is do we keep a guy just to keep him? 4 years with no results but we should keep him just to keep him? So 2 years from now when we still haven't even sniffed the post season what do we do? My point is we have to go out and find the right guy that is a good fit. GMAC fits the ISU mold because he is a great guy with good character and ethics. He doesn't win though.

Take a guy like BG... He is a proven winner and at the major conference level. It is much easier to bring in a guy like that, clean and polish him up, and sell him as a good guy then it is to keep GMAC and while he has the good guy image covered try to sell him as a winner when his results show otherwise.

I agree that GMac is a great fit for ISU if only he was winning. But BG is a terrible fit for ISU and his only saving grace might be winning which isn't guaranteed. He could come in and lose and then we'd have an even worse situation. Also, you're not going to build a stable program with a guy like BG. He'll be gone win or lose in 3-4 seasons. We'd have to go through another coaching hire.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

With all this talk of "stability" and "guarantee's".....what are two things that have been stable the last four years? Our coach...and the results.

You could have just stopped right here. Great post.

The people in Hiroshima just cringed at the atomic bomb you just dropped on CF. Well done!!:yes:

 

[swarthmoreCY]

He could come in and lose and then we'd have an even worse situation. Also, you're not going to build a stable program with a guy like BG. He'll be gone win or lose in 3-4 seasons. We'd have to go through another coaching hire.

There is nothing worse than losing.

 

[cycloneG]

There is nothing worse than losing.

There are lots of things that are worse than losing.

 

[HiltonMagic]

There are lots of things that are worse than losing.

yeah, like winning, according to some people.

 

[Palmer]

There are lots of things that are worse than losing.

1. Jar Jar Binks

1a. losing