What would it take?

What needs to happen to save GMac's job?

  • Nothing. His job should be safe.

    Votes: 49 23.8%
  • Beat KSU (Top 25 team on the road)

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • Win game in Big XII Tournament (likely Texas)

    Votes: 11 5.3%
  • Make Big XII Tournament Semifinals

    Votes: 21 10.2%
  • Be invited to the NIT

    Votes: 11 5.3%
  • Deep NIT run

    Votes: 9 4.4%
  • Win Big XII Tournament (lose 1st round NCAA's)

    Votes: 33 16.0%
  • Win a game in the NCAA Tournament

    Votes: 8 3.9%
  • Make Sweet 16

    Votes: 4 1.9%
  • Make Final Four

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Win the whole ******* thing

    Votes: 9 4.4%
  • Nothing. He should be fired regardless.

    Votes: 44 21.4%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 2 1.0%

  • Total voters
    206

kg-cyclone

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Actually, you speak an opinion. It may be what you believe in your heart. But when others disagree with you, and all you can speak in is innuendos, and snide comments. It doesn't come off as "truth"

Please don't be offended. I am simply asking questions. I too think that Greg will be back next year, and it will be a tough sale to a lot of the fanbase. You can put a voice to a reason to keep him.


On this board...never
 

dtclones

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Mid-season player turnover causes instability in the short term, i.e. the current season. Coaching turnover causes instability in the long term.

That's a fair and true statement. However, when players are constantly transferring or getting kicked off it causes me as a fan to not trust that players will be back the next season. For example, I'm not alone in thinking that Colvin may not be back next season. I wouldn't have this feeling if it weren't for so many other instances where players have left. That, to me, is an unstable feeling.
 

cycloneG

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That's a fair and true statement. However, when players are constantly transferring or getting kicked off it causes me as a fan to not trust that players will be back the next season. For example, I'm not alone in thinking that Colvin may not be back next season. I wouldn't have this feeling if it weren't for so many other instances where players have left. That, to me, is an unstable feeling.


I think you have to look at the reasons for each player leaving and see if Colvin fits into any of those categories. Do you think he'll be kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons? Do you think he'll leave to play ball over seas? :smile: Is he going to leave because he can't play at this level? Is he going to leave because he had an injury that wasn't treated properly? As far as I know, no one has left because they think they're too good to play here. Craig stayed. I have no worries that Colvin will be back next season.
 

Toasted40

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What can you guarantee me?


Here is what I can guarantee.

We have a pretty demoralized fanbase that wants to win badly. They were so loyal that they watch what had been a pretty decent program be gutted by defections, and backed the coach that it happened under. They watched the "face of the program" leave, and stayed with the coach.

They watched awful basketball for three years, continuing to believe. They listened to a coach tell them that this was the year that we should be in the NCAA conversation. They watched the early season games, and ignored all of the problems that have been in existence since the coach took over (rebounding, decision making) because they finally had hope.

They have seen a season of hope turn into the worst of the four years of the coach, and they aren't happy. And they stopped showing up at Hilton more and more as the season went along. Next year doesn't look to be any better.

THAT is what I can guarantee.
 

kg-cyclone

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Oct 30, 2006
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I think you have to look at the reasons for each player leaving and see if Colvin fits into any of those categories. Do you think he'll be kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons? Do you think he'll leave to play ball over seas? :smile: Is he going to leave because he can't play at this level? Is he going to leave because he had an injury that wasn't treated properly? As far as I know, no one has left because they think they're too good to play here. Craig stayed. I have no worries that Colvin will be back next season.

I'm with you...That goes for Dendy too.
 

CycloneWarning

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Jan 14, 2008
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What can you guarantee me?

I feel pretty comfortable guaranteeing that at least one other player will quit the team this offseason, irrespective of what Brackins/Gilstrap do.

But I guess in some worlds, stability is defined as a starter quitting on the team in mid-season.
 

dtclones

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Sep 15, 2009
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I think you have to look at the reasons for each player leaving and see if Colvin fits into any of those categories. Do you think he'll be kicked off the team for disciplinary reasons? Do you think he'll leave to play ball over seas? :smile: Is he going to leave because he can't play at this level? Is he going to leave because he had an injury that wasn't treated properly? As far as I know, no one has left because they think they're too good to play here. Craig stayed. I have no worries that Colvin will be back next season.

It doesn't really matter what the reason is. It could be a completely new reason. All I know, is that from a fan's standpoint who follows the team as closely as he can, I don't trust that everyone who should be back, will be back. Now, you may not have the same feeling, but I know I'm not alone with feeling like we're going to lose someone unexpected this offseason.
 

cycloneG

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Here is what I can guarantee.

We have a pretty demoralized fanbase that wants to win badly. They were so loyal that they watch what had been a pretty decent program be gutted by defections, and backed the coach that it happened under. They watched the "face of the program" leave, and stayed with the coach.

They watched awful basketball for three years, continuing to believe. They listened to a coach tell them that this was the year that we should be in the NCAA conversation. They watched the early season games, and ignored all of the problems that have been in existence since the coach took over (rebounding, decision making) because they finally had hope.

They have seen a season of hope turn into the worst of the four years of the coach, and they aren't happy. And they stopped showing up at Hilton more and more as the season went along. Next year doesn't look to be any better.

THAT is what I can guarantee.

I don't see any guarantees in your dialogue. You aren't talking about the future at all except in your last sentence. Shouldn't a guarantee be about the future? :biggrin:
 

Toasted40

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Stability issues are created through coaching turnover; not player turnover.

So it is better to be 10-12 in the league every year than to be unstable.

So it is better to draw 6000 people per game than be unstable.

Way to sell your point,

People are tired of losing. People are tired of excuses. People want a reason to believe, and a lot of them don't see one.
 

BryceC

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This is what I don't understand. I agree with most everyone on here, but what I have trouble with is are we better off if we fire him? I don't know. I can't answer that. And the obvious answer of "We can't be worse", is completely false. We can be a lot worse. I do not want to end up like Iowa and having our fan base fire a coach could make us end up like Iowa. Keeping Mac, I don't see that.

I get what you are saying, but in what way would we not be like Iowa by keeping Mac? As far as things I can guarantee, I guarantee with Mac back ticket sales and attendance will be down, and probably way down next year. As evidence I present the last two home games.

I'm not sure if firing him is the right way to go either and I don't have an opinion on if he stays or goes. I'll be fine either way and yes I'll get tickets next year either way.
 

kg-cyclone

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Oct 30, 2006
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I don't see any guarantees in your dialogue. You aren't talking about the future at all except in your last sentence. Shouldn't a guarantee be about the future? :biggrin:

Haha...that's what ran through my head.:wink:
 

CYEATHAWK

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Aug 26, 2007
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Stability issues are created through coaching turnover; not player turnover.


This is interesting. I was under the impression that Wayne telling his players to "turnover" was the reason for GMAC's demise and not the actual "turnover" of coaches itself in March of 06'. Didn't JP say last year he considered it GMAC's first year because of early problems? If those early problems were not the fact of player "turnover" due to a coaching "turnover".....then what was JP talking about?
 

Toasted40

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Would keeping him one more year really make us the laughing stock of the conference? Really? I know I'll still be going to as many games as I can next year no matter who is the coach. I think most fans feel the same way.

Please explain how keeping him will make us more like Iowa? If anything letting him go makes us look exactly like Iowa. Next thing you know, Mac is winning games at some mid-major again and everyone will be scratching their heads like the Hawkeyes are right now. I'm not saying that Mac is the answer, I'm just not convinced letting him go is the answer.

Starting over from scratch pretty much guarantees a few years of mediocre basketball if not more. Realistically, we can't make that splashy hire that can turn a program around in a year or 2, but we do have a foundation there that hopefully can take us to the next level. Recruiting isn't a one year thing, it takes years to develop and it seems we have the inroads for that now. Will it pan out? Who knows? But it's better than starting from scratch IMO.

Again, I think he will be back next year.

We are 11th in the league in Greg's fourth year. Nebraska will be better next year, will we? We used Brackins to get on the ESPN family this year a few times. How many ESPN games (national television) do we get next year? That may be regardless of the coach, we have nothing to sell.

How many season tickets do you think we will sell next year if Greg is indeed the coach. You are now seeing the women's team outdrawing the men, and it will get worse. 6500 people in Hilton is a big revenue loss.

Also, if Greg wins at the mid major level, it will prove what many believe, that he is a good mid major coach. I think the guy is a solid game planner myself.

Finally, the reason it is so bad is that people have lost hope. That contract depresses so many people, not because they don't like Greg, because they are tired of watching this team lose the same way over and over again.

Hope sells tickets. Iowa State fans will be back, but they need hope for it to get better. I don't see how Greg McDermott sells that hope.
 

CTAClone

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I get what you are saying, but in what way would we not be like Iowa by keeping Mac? As far as things I can guarantee, I guarantee with Mac back ticket sales and attendance will be down, and probably way down next year. As evidence I present the last two home games.

I'm not sure if firing him is the right way to go either and I don't have an opinion on if he stays or goes. I'll be fine either way and yes I'll get tickets next year either way.

I'm in the exact same boat as you.

How I think we aren't like Iowa if we keep Mac is we do have a loyal fan base of 6K in fans that will show up no matter what. We have a very vocal minority that wants Mac fired. Exactly like Iowa did with Alfraud. Mac supposedly has inroads in recruiting now and bringing in better players every year it seems. He's already shown he can find some great Big 12 talent (with some big misses, and keeping them is another matter). I'd take a dozen Wes Eik's for every Wes Johnson/CB he brings in here. If we let go of Mac almost all recruits are probably gone, especially the ones that are 2 or 3 years in development. Coaches are recruiting kids in Junior High right now.
 

cycloneG

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This is interesting. I was under the impression that Wayne telling his players to "turnover" was the reason for GMAC's demise and not the actual "turnover" of coaches itself in March of 06'. Didn't JP say last year he considered it GMAC's first year because of early problems? If those early problems were not the fact of player "turnover" due to a coaching "turnover".....then what was JP talking about?

The root cause of the player turnover was the coaching turnover. Combine that with a shortened recruiting period.
 

Toasted40

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I don't see any guarantees in your dialogue. You aren't talking about the future at all except in your last sentence. Shouldn't a guarantee be about the future? :biggrin:


Do you think that the fans are happy with the product on the floor?

You don't think that they have been incredibly loyal to Greg, especially after the Wesley Johnson thing?

Do you think that the dwindling attendance numbers (real butts in seats) is just a fluke?

Do you think people are going to forget how bad this season has been, and come back in droves next year?

I
 

CTAClone

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Again, I think he will be back next year.

We are 11th in the league in Greg's fourth year. Nebraska will be better next year, will we? We used Brackins to get on the ESPN family this year a few times. How many ESPN games (national television) do we get next year? That may be regardless of the coach, we have nothing to sell.

How many season tickets do you think we will sell next year if Greg is indeed the coach. You are now seeing the women's team outdrawing the men, and it will get worse. 6500 people in Hilton is a big revenue loss.

Also, if Greg wins at the mid major level, it will prove what many believe, that he is a good mid major coach. I think the guy is a solid game planner myself.

Finally, the reason it is so bad is that people have lost hope. That contract depresses so many people, not because they don't like Greg, because they are tired of watching this team lose the same way over and over again.

Hope sells tickets. Iowa State fans will be back, but they need hope for it to get better. I don't see how Greg McDermott sells that hope.

I don't want hope. I want wins. And I don't see a new coach giving that to us anytime soon. Don't know if Mac can either, but I think he has a much better chance than a new coach will.

Whatever decision is made, I can back either of them up. I just think people are looking for a quick fix, when the quick fix actually may end up costing the program more than sticking it out one more year.
 

bawbie

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Hope sells tickets. Iowa State fans will be back, but they need hope for it to get better. I don't see how Greg McDermott sells that hope.

There is only one way to "sell that hope" now, and that's winning. If McDermott is back next year, and the team wins, people will show up. It's that simple, really.
 

kg-cyclone

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I don't want hope. I want wins. And I don't see a new coach giving that to us anytime soon. Don't know if Mac can either, but I think he has a much better chance than a new coach will.

Whatever decision is made, I can back either of them up. I just think people are looking for a quick fix, when the quick fix actually may end up costing the program more than sticking it out one more year.

Good post.
 

cycloneG

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Do you think that the fans are happy with the product on the floor?

You don't think that they have been incredibly loyal to Greg, especially after the Wesley Johnson thing?

Do you think that the dwindling attendance numbers (real butts in seats) is just a fluke?

Do you think people are going to forget how bad this season has been, and come back in droves next year?

I

Ticket sales are going to take a hit next year no matter the coach.