Star Wars episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker

[BryceC]

He asked Michael Bay about his characters backstory and it didn't have one haha. Also, I loved him alongside Ben Mendelsohn in Mississippi Grind. That was a movie I wished more people caught on to

Mississippi Grind is currently on Netflix!

 

[Rogue52]

The thing was all kind of flawed from the start. The First Order turning a whole planet into a super weapon that can travel through hyperspace and suck away one star after another seemed too far fetched even for Star Wars. Oh yeah, not only can the planet travel through hyperspace, but its super laser can too? Even if one accepts the premise of the weapon, the only way it makes sense is if the Empire had started the project decades earlier.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Disagree. That kind of introduction makes sense in a first movie, not in a movie where we already know the backstory and the empire was supposedly defeated. Was a flaw of this trilogy from the start

You've only begun to discover your power! Join me, and I will complete your training! With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy.

Seriously, though. This is like the smartest thing you've ever posted on here.

Glad you are finally coming around on Disney Wars, though.

The thing was all kind of flawed from the start. The First Order turning a whole planet into a super weapon that can travel through hyperspace and suck away one star after another seemed too far fetched even for Star Wars. Oh yeah, not only can the planet travel through hyperspace, but its super laser can too? Even if one accepts the premise of the weapon, the only way it makes sense is if the Empire had started the project decades earlier.

The fantasy elements of what you describe (and face it -- Star Wars is much more in the fantasy or mythology genre than it is in the science fiction one... it did take place a long time ago, after all...) was not the problem with Starkiller Base.

The problem was did we really need a THIRD ******* Death Star?

Jedi was pushing it. This was blowing it out of the water.

 

[srjclone]

Mississippi Grind is currently on Netflix!

Good to know! It's really a pretty quick and easy watch, for those who haven't seen it. I thought both of their performances were very solid, and believable. It's essentially watching two internal monologues play out on the screen at the same time.

Surprisingly, it's the same directors who did Captain Marvel and Sugar

Sorry, I'll stop talking about movies other than Star Wars.

 

[alarson]

It could be worse. It could be Cats

 

[BryceC]

Anybody going to see it today?

 

[Clonefan94]

I see your point, but I would argue that Empire and Jedi are two parts of the same story arc. In a traditional three act structure, the end of Empire is the end of Act 2 (the heroes at their darkest moment) before fighting back and emerging victorious in Act 3. And the end of Empire is definitely their low -- Luke is grievously wounded, struggling with the revelation that Vader is Anakin Skywalker and the temptations of the dark side, Han is Jabba's prisoner, Leia and Lando and everybody else are on the run, and the Alliance had the stuffing beat out of it by the Empire the whole movie. It is their turn to fight back from there.

All that gets resolved... perhaps a little too neatly, I am well aware of the criticisms of Jedi out there... in Jedi, which is essentially an extended third act.

Empire was not a commercial for Jedi -- it was just half of a film that had a clear plan of where it was going next. It is like the end of The Fellowship of the Ring -- same problem of the heroes at perhaps their darkest moment before they fight back, but the narrative arc that we are trying to tell is not yet completed (and we know it is not).

Building to an ending with a plan is different than a series that can theoretically go on forever and has to, by design and commercial necessity, always make each entry an episode in a tale of undetermined length. Say what you will about the Ewoks, but The Return of the Jedi at least gave the original three a conclusion, wrapped up the major plot points, gave the characters a fitting end, and then closed the book on everything.

I get what you are saying, it's just that for me personally, I don't see the difference. I'm not saying that makes a movie good or bad, or even that I am opposed to it, just that at the end, if you want a conclusion, you have to see the next movie.

 

[srjclone]

Anybody going to see it today?

I'll be going at 7:30, going in with lowered expectations hoping to leave happy haha

 

[Triggermv]

I've got tickets for 7 pm tonight. Can't wait. No point in going in sad already. Part of the fun of Star Wars is the excitement leading in. Plus, I like to make my own judgments on a movie. Don't need others telling me what to think.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I get what you are saying, it's just that for me personally, I don't see the difference. I'm not saying that makes a movie good or bad, or even that I am opposed to it, just that at the end, if you want a conclusion, you have to see the next movie.

If I had to summarize it (and this is brief for me) --

The Marvel franchise will never end. Individual characters can be given endings (see the end of Endgame) and story arcs can conclude (ditto), but they are always going to leave things undone at the end of any given film so they can lead into the next.

Star Wars was done after The Return of the Jedi. Like I said, all major plot arcs were concluded, the characters had fitting endings, and everybody walked away from it after the Battle of Endor being the firm conclusion to the entire story. So much so that when Lucas returned to it, he went *before* instead of *after.*

Now, I like many of the Marvel films. I still think the original Iron Man is one of the handful of the best comic book films ever made, and the colorful goofiness of the Guardians films is great fun. They can be inconsistent (who really likes Thor: The Dark World?), but they are generally solid entertainment and spectacle for two hours. They are the definition of a franchise, just as with food -- usually consistent, can be very bland and repetitive at its worst, might not have the highest highs of more auteur directors and productions, but you know what you are going to get and it will usually be good.

One thing that holds the MCU back is simply that it can never have anything like The Return of the Jedi. It can never have an emotional conclusion to everything all at once. Endgame was as close as they will get, and it was not the same.

The Return of the Jedi did that so well that Disney did not even try to explain away its ending in The Force Awakens. They just went "here is a Resistence, it is exactly the same as the Alliance, and here is the First Order, it is exactly the same as the Empire except for everybody is a cartoony Nazi that yells everything instead of a banal and much more realistic bureaucrat playing CYA all the time, we're not even going to try to explain how we got here or what happened to the New Republic, just let us reset everything without explanation, on with the explosions and laser swords pew pew pew!"

The prequels were rightfully criticized for spending way too much time on the politics of the Old Republic yet somehow they were still confusing. The Force Awakens went way too far in the other direction by not even trying to explain it at all.

I think incredible laziness and poor world-building in The Force Awakens did that, but I also think The Return of the Jedi put such a bow on the series that, like The Return of the King, the idea of continuing the story seems... kind of wrong, anticlimactic, or at least a very tall order from a storytelling perspective. Disney was not up to it in the same way Lucas was (or the talent around him) in slowly doing that in A New Hope and Empire.

Luke... became a Jedi, like his father before him, defeated the Emperor, resisted the temptations of the Dark Side, redeemed Anakin as much as he could, made peace with his father, saved his friends, and brought down the Empire. His story was done. What more can he do? What more COULD he do is the important question.

 

[Gordyo5]

Anybody going to see it today?

Got my tickets for 8:00, can't let my students spoil this one like they did TFA. Expectations are mediocre. Pretty sure I'll enjoy it like I do all of them, but not expecting anything amazing, which is what I have felt about almost every Star Wars movie (minus Rouge One, it was amazing).

 

[ArgentCy]

Disney is ruining this who thing, not surprisingly. I can't even keep track of which movies I've seen and what freaking order they are supposedly taken place. Have we seen 7 or 8 yet?

 

[HFCS]

If I had to summarize it (and this is brief for me) --

The Marvel franchise will never end. Individual characters can be given endings (see the end of Endgame) and story arcs can conclude (ditto), but they are always going to leave things undone at the end of any given film so they can lead into the next.

Star Wars was done after The Return of the Jedi. Like I said, all major plot arcs were concluded, the characters had fitting endings, and everybody walked away from it after the Battle of Endor being the firm conclusion to the entire story. So much so that when Lucas returned to it, he went *before* instead of *after.*

Now, I like many of the Marvel films. I still think the original Iron Man is one of the handful of the best comic book films ever made, and the colorful goofiness of the Guardians films is great fun. They can be inconsistent (who really likes Thor: The Dark World?), but they are generally solid entertainment and spectacle for two hours. They are the definition of a franchise, just as with food -- usually consistent, can be very bland and repetitive at its worst, might not have the highest highs of more auteur directors and productions, but you know what you are going to get and it will usually be good.

One thing that holds the MCU back is simply that it can never have anything like The Return of the Jedi. It can never have an emotional conclusion to everything all at once. Endgame was as close as they will get, and it was not the same.

The Return of the Jedi did that so well that Disney did not even try to explain away its ending in The Force Awakens. They just went "here is a Resistence, it is exactly the same as the Alliance, and here is the First Order, it is exactly the same as the Empire except for everybody is a cartoony Nazi that yells everything instead of a banal and much more realistic bureaucrat playing CYA all the time, we're not even going to try to explain how we got here or what happened to the New Republic, just let us reset everything without explanation, on with the explosions and laser swords pew pew pew!"

The prequels were rightfully criticized for spending way too much time on the politics of the Old Republic yet somehow they were still confusing. The Force Awakens went way too far in the other direction by not even trying to explain it at all.

I think incredible laziness and poor world-building in The Force Awakens did that, but I also think The Return of the Jedi put such a bow on the series that, like The Return of the King, the idea of continuing the story seems... kind of wrong, anticlimactic, or at least a very tall order from a storytelling perspective. Disney was not up to it in the same way Lucas was (or the talent around him) in slowly doing that in A New Hope and Empire.

Luke... became a Jedi, like his father before him, defeated the Emperor, resisted the temptations of the Dark Side, redeemed Anakin as much as he could, made peace with his father, saved his friends, and brought down the Empire. His story was done. What more can he do? What more COULD he do is the important question.

I agree with all of this with the caveat that Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are still 100x more unwatchable than any of the four new movies under Disney. They are just horrible movies with horrible scripts and some of the most poorly written dialogue in any major motion picture. I recently tried to rewatch them to give the "you only hate them because you didn't grow up with them" crowd a chance...well I didn't grow up with the 5 Disney movies/series and I like the worst of them 100x more than those first two movies.

Revenge of the Sith is more akin to The Last Jedi or Solo in that it's flawed but can still be an enjoyable watch. The Force Awakens is a brilliant remake that won't admit it's a remake. The Mandalorian and Rogue One are great.

 

[weR138]

Disney is ruining this who thing, not surprisingly. I can't even keep track of which movies I've seen and what freaking order they are supposedly taken place. Have we seen 7 or 8 yet?

Not sure if serious but...

First, there were originally two really good movies. So you can blame Lucas for Jedi.

Second, Disney didn't make the prequels.

Third, the Disney sequels are better than the prequels (low bar or not).

Fourth, Rogue One is the third best SW film behind ANH & TESB and Disney got that one made.

That is all.

 

[HFCS]

Not sure if serious but...

First, there were originally two really good movies. So you can blame Lucas for Jedi.

Second, Disney didn't make the prequels.

Third, the Disney sequels are better than the prequels (low bar or not).

Fourth, Rogue One is the third best SW film behind ANH & TESB and Disney got that one made.

That is all.

I agree with everything here accept for the take on Jedi. It's much closer to the original two films than people give it credit for.

There have always been obsessed nerds. For a long stretch those obsessed nerds had to pick at something Star Wars so they picked the Ewoks. If you take out the Ewoks RotJ is maybe the darkest movie given how terrifying the Emperor was upon first viewing and also the Jabba's palace stuff was pretty dark but in a fun way. Yoda passing away and Obi Wan's ghost squaring things away with Luke wasn't exactly light and cheerful either.

 

[Triggermv]

I agree with all of this with the caveat that Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are still 100x more unwatchable than any of the four new movies under Disney. They are just horrible movies with horrible scripts and some of the most poorly written dialogue in any major motion picture. I recently tried to rewatch them to give the "you only hate them because you didn't grow up with them" crowd a chance...well I didn't grow up with the 5 Disney movies/series and I like the worst of them 100x more than those first two movies.

Revenge of the Sith is more akin to The Last Jedi or Solo in that it's flawed but can still be an enjoyable watch. The Force Awakens is a brilliant remake that won't admit it's a remake. The Mandalorian and Rogue One are great.

The prequels have grown more on me over the years. At least the story and vision is there with them if you can get past the poor acting, goofy characters, bad directing, and bad CGI. To me, this new trilogy is almost the opposite of the prequels where it is more solid on the acting, visuals, and less goofy characters, but lacks in the story, world-building, and vision. As of this moment, I've yet to determine which trilogy will ultimately be the better one or the more re-watchable one. It all somewhat depends on how this movie turns out. and unlike maybe some people on here, I'm going to wait until I actually watch the movie myself before I make that determination.

 

[HFCS]

The prequels have grown more on me over the years. At least the story and vision is there with them if you can get past the poor acting, goofy characters, bad directing, and bad CGI. To me, this new trilogy is almost the opposite of the prequels where it is more solid on the acting, visuals, and less goofy characters, but lacks in the story, world-building, and vision. As of this moment, I've yet to determine which trilogy will ultimately be the better one or the more re-watchable one. It all somewhat depends on how this movie turns out. and unlike maybe some people on here, I'm going to wait until I actually watch the movie myself before I make that determination.

The most jaded fan now has four movies and a series they can cherish. If someone only likes Empire they aren't really a fan of Star Wars at that point.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I agree with all of this with the caveat that Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are still 100x more unwatchable than any of the four new movies under Disney. They are just horrible movies with horrible scripts and some of the most poorly written dialogue in any major motion picture. I recently tried to rewatch them to give the "you only hate them because you didn't grow up with them" crowd a chance...well I didn't grow up with the 5 Disney movies/series and I like the worst of them 100x more than those first two movies.

Revenge of the Sith is more akin to The Last Jedi or Solo in that it's flawed but can still be an enjoyable watch. The Force Awakens is a brilliant remake that won't admit it's a remake. The Mandalorian and Rogue One are great.

The prequels are just bad.

Revenge of the Sith actually has a plot and some interesting evolution of the characters and the world, but it should have been split into two movies. Lucas screwed around for two movies and then got to the good stuff in the last film and didn't have the time to really develop it properly. The CGI still looks really bad in Sith, too.

If there was a movie that would never need a remake, it was Ghostbusters, err, A New Hope. The "soft remake" or redoing a previous film but within the same universe of the first film, pretending an incredible amount of plot points, characterizations, and settings would just replay themselves again coincidentally, makes my blood boil. The point of these movies is supposed to be escapism, fantasy, and world-building.

Constantly reminding me that I'm watching a movie by showing me stuff from previous, better movies that I like more is the exact opposite from doing that.

Rogue One was a solid action film. It is easily the fourth-best Star Wars film ever made after the original three. Haven't seen The Mandalorian.

I agree with everything here accept for the take on Jedi. It's much closer to the original two films than people give it credit for.

There have always been obsessed nerds. For a long stretch those obsessed nerds had to pick at something Star Wars so they picked the Ewoks. If you take out the Ewoks RotJ is maybe the darkest movie given how terrifying the Emperor was upon first viewing and also the Jabba's palace stuff was pretty dark but in a fun way. Yoda passing away and Obi Wan's ghost squaring things away with Luke wasn't exactly light and cheerful either.

I am a defender of The Return of the Jedi, and you make good points, but I said earlier that it maybe wraps things up "too" nicely. Nobody really sacrifices themselves along the way except for, well, Vader. It is nice that everybody has a happy ending, but at the same time, it lacks a little emotional punch without sacrificing a character.

The most emotional moment in the whole of The Lord of the Rings (the book and the movies) is the death of Boromir. It has nothing like that, unfortunately.

 

[VeloClone]

I agree with everything here accept for the take on Jedi. It's much closer to the original two films than people give it credit for.

There have always been obsessed nerds. For a long stretch those obsessed nerds had to pick at something Star Wars so they picked the Ewoks. If you take out the Ewoks RotJ is maybe the darkest movie given how terrifying the Emperor was upon first viewing and also the Jabba's palace stuff was pretty dark but in a fun way. Yoda passing away and Obi Wan's ghost squaring things away with Luke wasn't exactly light and cheerful either.

I'm not a fanatical Star Wars fan but if what I have been told it true the Ewoks were a concoction to fix a problem. Originally in Lucas' story arc the Wookies were the inhabitants of the planet at that point in the story. When Lucas was making A New Hope, he didn't know if he would get to make any more than that one movie so he made the episode that he thought stood on its own the best and he changed a character to get in a taste of a race of creatures that he liked and was proud of in his stories. Chewbacca was then made the sidekick of Han Solo. When he got to Return of the Jedi, he now had the problem of Wookies already introduced and more importantly familiar to the other rebel characters so he created Ewoks to fill the void. They fill the part in the story and were marketable.

That's what I've heard at least.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I'm not a fanatical Star Wars fan but if what I have been told it true the Ewoks were a concoction to fix a problem. Originally in Lucas' story arc the Wookies were the inhabitants of the planet at that point in the story. When Lucas was making A New Hope, he didn't know if he would get to make any more than that one movie so he made the episode that he thought stood on its own the best and he changed a character to get in a taste of a race of creatures that he liked and was proud of in his stories. Chewbacca was then made the sidekick of Han Solo. When he got to Return of the Jedi, he now had the problem of Wookies already introduced and more importantly familiar to the other rebel characters so he created Ewoks to fill the void. They fill the part in the story and were marketable.

That's what I've heard at least.

I wish Lumpy and Itchy were in The Return of the Jedi.