Rhoads vs McCarney

[mikem]

The reason it was appealing was because of the pure jackassery that was the hawkeye fanbase. You think those guys are bad now? Try after 15 straight losses to them. Normal people would be ashamed to see their fellow fans act that poorly toward others, but not the 80's and 90's hok fan. They took their lead from ole Raisin Face, the Pied Piper of Dooshbaggery. The sheer arrogance was disgusting. If you had an ISU shirt on, they acted like they were automatically better than you. And most of them were the old tavernhawks...white trash trailer-dwelling community college dropouts who spent their Saturdays in the bar rooting on their beloved hawks. Yeah, THOSE losers took it as their responsibility to look down on college degree-holding ISU fan. You better believe that there was a sentiment from the ISU fanbase to want to shove those 15 wins down some throats. When ISU was winning 5 in a row, there was a lot of rubbing noses in the crap that hokeye fans had been slinging for 15. And they deserved every freaking bit of it.

Mac played up that rivalry and probably kept his job for longer than he should have because he won vs iowa. Thankfully, most of the fanbase has moved past that game being the most important on the schedule. ISU has proven that they can play with the big boys at times. Personally, I'd MUCH rather beat a top five ranked OU team at home than an unranked iowa in IC.

I can see what you are saying. It is true that most of those idiots seem to think that they are nationally relevant like Michigan.

It is also true that the dumbing down of the fans in this state is shameful as well. I mean, look how bad the big whatever does in bowl games year in and year out. But the average idiot hawk fan really does believe that playing Indiana in football is like playing Okie State.

I don't even necessarily blame them for being so stupid, it's the like minded culture that leads to the lack of branches on those family trees. :sad:

But as far as mac goes, I will give him credit for understanding the low self esteem this fanbase has, and preying upon it for the millions of dollars that he should never have been allowed to earn.

You know the guy knew that he had it made here. He could be really bad at his job, and people on here still go to the mat for him. He was as fearful of being candid as any hawk fan could ever hope to be, so he came up with the most worthless stats to try to convince people that he was getting it done.

Spin, made the hawk series a rivalry again, pointless stat, self promote...Rinse and repeat for 12 ******* years...Wow, only at Iowa State.

You know it's bad when other teams fans, especially hawk fans, are the ones saying that he was the best we could ever do. But when you personalize the coach, people buy into that ****. Read the archives on this site...There were so many fanboys of mac's skewed the debate. They weren't Iowa State fans, they were mac fans...and they were saying the same things that they were mad at other fanbases were saying.

Hopefully, if nothing else gets accomplished by Jamie Pollard, we have gotten rid of that terrible victim mindset.

 

[CyDude16]

Rhoads is out of gas after 3 years. it took McCarney 12 years to run out of gas.

*Insert sarcasm pirate here*

 

[ThurgoodMarshal]

Hoiberg!

 

[BringBackJohnny]

E. Iowa

I really thought you would go a different route here. To me the Iowa point is not recruiting in the state but beating the Hawks on the field therefor being relevant in the state. Dan turned the outlook on the Iowa game around, we had not beat them since 1982 and during his time here he beat them 6 times with 5 in a row at one point.

This!!!!

You can't be relitive in football nationally if more than half the people in your state don't even acknowledge you have a team. Mac was like Rocky out there taking punches from Appolo but never going down. It was that toughness that got the fanbase fired back up. He and his teams were way out classed by the hawks when he came on but they would go for broke in that game because those wins were what the Clones needed in those days. After getting kicked around by the Hawks and Skers for yrs Mac showed all of ISU we didn't have to take that $@#% any more.

 

[bringmagicback]

I know there is a lot of McCarney love and a lot of McCarney hate on this board.

As for me, I was fairly young when McCarney started coaching at ISU at the same time I attended my first football game (mizzou vs troy davis where he had all those yards). Before Dan, I was constantly made fun of for wearing ISU clothing to school and for liking ISU. Dan changed all of that and made me proud to like ISU and to wear the colors and support the team.

As a lot of you are older and had major problems with Dan because of his play calling ect. I never even noticed that. To me he will always be my favorite coach along with CPR assuming he stays around. I know a lot of guys that played for Dan, and no one ever said one bad thing about him.

I get kinda upset when I hear people trash on him but I guess thats the way it is.

 

[cyhiphopp]

As others have said, I think DMac was the coach that ISU needed at the time. He reinvigorated the fanbase and did everything he could to sell ISU football. That was a tough *** job. It's possible that it took him longer than it should but noone really knows how someone else would have done.

The issue with Dan was that, once he got ISU back to a somewhat competitive level, his limitations as a football coach really hurt him. I don't think he would have ever been able to turn the corner to get to 8+ wins consistently. I think part of this was due to his inability to change his strategy in recruiting and coaching. He stuck with what he knew and that was hitting the state of Iowa too hard and gambling on JuCos and guys other schools were scared off of due to academics.

DMac also lost his best assistants. He was then unable to hire decent replacements which really hurt him. Part of that was due to unavailablity of funds for assistant coach salaries and also due to him just making bad hires.

Finally, DMac's coaching style really hurt him at times. It cost the team a trip to two conference championship games. You don't even have to depend on a sub-par kicker if you don't go ultra-conservative when you get the slightest lead.

I really appreciate a lot of the things DMac did for ISU, but he was not the best coach ever.

 

[The_Architect]

Hadn't Terry switched to linebacker before he got hurt?

No, you're confusing Waye Terry with Derek Walker who was a recruited JUCO QB who we converted into an decent linebacker. IIRC he played on the 1999 and 2000 teams.

 

[Cyched]

I still have a favorable opinion of Dan McCarney. The man pulled us out of the grave and ultimately reversed 20 years of futility, ending the chokehold the Hawkeyes had on us in the process. That said, I think he eventually became a victim of his own success when it was clear we weren't going to advance any higher. By the time he left in '06 he had run his course here. I think we'll ultimately look back on Dan as the guy who did the dirty work to pave the way for a winner to take over as coach and get us past the hump Mac couldn't. Hopefully Rhoads is that winner we've been looking for.

 

[bringmagicback]

Isnt Waye Terry still around Des Moines, I swear I ran into him somewhere and prob didnt know who he was but I remember his name. Maybe he was selling cars or something?

 

[rebecacy]

The reason it was appealing was because of the pure jackassery that was the hawkeye fanbase. You think those guys are bad now? Try after 15 straight losses to them. Normal people would be ashamed to see their fellow fans act that poorly toward others, but not the 80's and 90's hok fan. They took their lead from ole Raisin Face, the Pied Piper of Dooshbaggery. The sheer arrogance was disgusting. If you had an ISU shirt on, they acted like they were automatically better than you. And most of them were the old tavernhawks...white trash trailer-dwelling community college dropouts who spent their Saturdays in the bar rooting on their beloved hawks. Yeah, THOSE losers took it as their responsibility to look down on college degree-holding ISU fan. You better believe that there was a sentiment from the ISU fanbase to want to shove those 15 wins down some throats. When ISU was winning 5 in a row, there was a lot of rubbing noses in the crap that hokeye fans had been slinging for 15. And they deserved every freaking bit of it.

Mac played up that rivalry and probably kept his job for longer than he should have because he won vs iowa. Thankfully, most of the fanbase has moved past that game being the most important on the schedule. ISU has proven that they can play with the big boys at times. Personally, I'd MUCH rather beat a top five ranked OU team at home than an unranked iowa in IC.

did some consulting work for a CR iowa based company( i cannot name) that sells their products to farmers. Made a presentation and suggested they advert with ISU at sporting events. They all looked at each other and turned to me and said "why would we give money to the clowns to advertise, we are iowa fans". I had to explain to them that they might want to figure out who their customers were and how most were ISU grads. I am shaking my head as I type this as I still cannot believe it and I was there. I left soon after and will never go back. F'en idiots.

 

[rebecacy]

You mean, like the Alabama game, where a FG was ruled a miss by a referee who later admitted to being blind in one eye?

huh????

 

[Cyclone46]

Mac was the guy to take us from something horrible to something good. Rhoads is the guy to take us from something good to something great. You don't get Rhoads without Mac.

When the Chiz came on board, I have heard clones say that beating Iowa isn't the only determination for success in a season. That raising of expectations doesn't happen without Mac making it happen. When he started, we would kill to beat Iowa and when he left we set the bar higher saying bowl bound was the mark of a good season. I hope by the time Rhoads leaves we are saying a successful season is a Big 12 championship. It is hard to compare the two because the world of college football, the expectations of the fans, and Iowa State in general is in a completely different place than it was when Mac ran the show. It is hard to compare the two. They are dealt different hands.

 

[Aclone]

I didn't intend this thread to either criticie or boost McCarney. I liked him as a coach, but it is clear to me that he had some glaring flaws, flaws that eventually proved fatal to his ISU career. My point is that to my great relief, Paul Rhoads isn't following in Mac's footsteps--at least not in that particular area. Which decidedly bodes well for the program under CPR.

 

[mikem]

I still have a favorable opinion of Dan McCarney. The man pulled us out of the grave and ultimately reversed 20 years of futility, ending the chokehold the Hawkeyes had on us in the process. That said, I think he eventually became a victim of his own success when it was clear we weren't going to advance any higher. By the time he left in '06 he had run his course here. I think we'll ultimately look back on Dan as the guy who did the dirty work to pave the way for a winner to take over as coach and get us past the hump Mac couldn't. Hopefully Rhoads is that winner we've been looking for.

What a pile of bs this is....

Not trying to single you out as this was a fanboy theme. Bobby Bowden was a victim of his own success. This guy was 30 games under .500, and had one good team that got killed by the three good teams they played.

The simple fact of it was that when teams were good, we were not competitive in the least. When iowa nebbie kstate mizzu all got bad at the same time, we were competitive.

Of course he still managed to lose to **** teams because he was that bad at coaching.

 

[mikem]

Mac was the guy to take us from something horrible to something good. Rhoads is the guy to take us from something good to something great. You don't get Rhoads without Mac.

When the Chiz came on board, I have heard clones say that beating Iowa isn't the only determination for success in a season. That raising of expectations doesn't happen without Mac making it happen. When he started, we would kill to beat Iowa and when he left we set the bar higher saying bowl bound was the mark of a good season. I hope by the time Rhoads leaves we are saying a successful season is a Big 12 championship. It is hard to compare the two because the world of college football, the expectations of the fans, and Iowa State in general is in a completely different place than it was when Mac ran the show. It is hard to compare the two. They are dealt different hands.

Of course you don't mention that they spent more money on mac the mediocre before he ever coached a game than they gave walden for the entire 8 years he was coach.

If you are going to find excuses, at least divulge all of the information. Thanks

 

[Cyclone46]

Of course you don't mention that they spent more money on mac the mediocre before he ever coached a game than they gave walden for the entire 8 years he was coach.

If you are going to find excuses, at least divulge all of the information. Thanks

Worth every penny if it gets us to Rhoads. Mediocre was a massive step up for the program. He was a good coach and it was a good investment.

 

[mikem]

Worth every penny if it gets us to Rhoads. Mediocre was a massive step up for the program. He was a good coach and it was a good investment.

Oh you are one of those, huh? :sad: Fell for the :v_SPIN: hook line and sinker, there were far too many of you, which is why we kept mac here way longer than he had any right to expect.

Mac was NOT a good coach. He is a good LINE coach, but a guy that takes the ball first in ot after winning the flip, then bragging that he didn't understand the rules is not a good coach. A "good" coach doesn't give a bad baylor team their first ever conference road win. A "good" coach doesn't have to rebuild units after his 8th and 12th years.

I love Rhoads, but you do realize that CPR was going to coach linebackers somewhere when HE called Pollard? Right? Again, I get it, don't divulge all the facts, and think that people don't know the truth so they believe you.

 

[rebecacy]

Oh you are one of those, huh? :sad: Fell for the :v_SPIN: hook line and sinker, there were far too many of you, which is why we kept mac here way longer than he had any right to expect.

Mac was NOT a good coach. He is a good LINE coach, but a guy that takes the ball first in ot after winning the flip, then bragging that he didn't understand the rules is not a good coach. A "good" coach doesn't give a bad baylor team their first ever conference road win. A "good" coach doesn't have to rebuild units after his 8th and 12th years.

I love Rhoads, but you do realize that CPR was going to coach linebackers somewhere when HE called Pollard? Right? Again, I get it, don't divulge all the facts, and think that people don't know the truth so they believe you.

a good coach doesn't **** the big xii north title two years in a row by making the exact same mistake.

after Kansas in 2005, i could have shot the bastard. just a stabbing after MU in 2004 :yes:

 

[Cyclone46]

Hold on there, turbo. You didn't hear me say that Mac was brilliant. You didn't hear me say that he was the best coach in the country or that he made all the right decisions. I think this thread has shown that he clearly didn't make all the right decisions, BUT I do believe he did some great things for Iowa State football to "turn us from a bad program to something good". Exactly as I said. It was a good investment and has lead us to the position we are today.

Rhoads is an amazing coach and he is an opportunist. i know he is the one who called Pollard. That isn't in question. He wouldn't have called Pollard to take the Head Coaching job at ISU if we weren't in a position to have some success. Mac, despite his flaws, put us in that position. Back to my previous statements, you don't get Rhoads without Mac. Mac was worth the investment and did mediocre with a little for a long time. You won't hear me say he was the best coach ever or that he was the best strategist in the world, but I won't deny that he put us in a better position to be successful. That wasn't dumb luck. It wasn't dumb luck to beat Iowa as many times as he did or have some success...not a ton, but some.

I actually have had the honor of playing football for both Rhoads and Mac. Rhoads was my position coach in 96 and 97 while Mac was the head coach. I understand each of them and their contributions to Iowa State football very well. Paul Rhoads is the best coach I have ever played for. Hands down. He is going to do amazing things with this program and the investment we made in Mediocre Mac was worth it so that we could be where we are today.

 

[Cyched]

What a pile of bs this is....

Not trying to single you out as this was a fanboy theme. Bobby Bowden was a victim of his own success. This guy was 30 games under .500, and had one good team that got killed by the three good teams they played.

The simple fact of it was that when teams were good, we were not competitive in the least. When iowa nebbie kstate mizzu all got bad at the same time, we were competitive.

Of course he still managed to lose to **** teams because he was that bad at coaching.

How is it bs?

The man took over an BAD program that was among the worst in the BCS and took us to 5 bowl games in 6 years. And ended the 15 year Hawkeye onslaught of losses. The point I'm trying to make is that once Mac had turned around the program, fan expectations became elevated as well. We all wanted to make the next step. Mac was the right guy to turn the program around, but wasn't the right guy to make the next leap forward the fans wanted to see, which became clear after he missed some BIG opportunities to do so.

Look at our fan expectations now compared to when he took over. In 1995, fans would have killed to go to a bowl game and to beat Iowa. Now under Rhoads we aren't content just making it to a bowl game. We expect to compete with anyone and want to see a Big 12 championship brought to Ames someday. Without everything McCarney did, we aren't where we are now.

I do consider his tenure a success, not simply because of the "we were bad before he took over" excuse, but because he laid the foundation for our program to keep improving. He served his role, and now he has moved on. And so has our program.