Rhoads vs McCarney

[everyyard]

I harbor no ill feelings towards Coach Mac. There isn't anyone that would have wanted the job or that could have done the job he did. He represented us with class and took us to 5 bowl games after 0 in the previous 20 years and he made the UofI his *****. Was it time for him to move on...absolutely. But, not all coaches are meant to be some place for 40 years. Some come in for a role and they fill it and move on. I am forever grateful for McCarney doing the role he did, and to me he is an Iowa State legend. I completely agree with Aclone's assessment.

 

[vortex]

There are similarities between McCarney and Rhoads, some positive and some not so much. Rhoads has better facilities and better opportunities for bowl games simply because of the crazy number of bowl games these days. There were things I really liked about McCarney, in some ways he never got enough credit for what he did at ISU. I do like Rhoads, he has done a good job moving things in the right direction. The jury is still out....what happens in the next three years will decide if Rhoads is, or isn't a big improvement over McCarney.

 

[CyBobby]

Gene CheeseDip....Really.....


Gee people just think if WE had 200 thousand dollars to give to Cam Newtons father WE could have won a natl championship too....


gene cheesedip chizik was a P***K and always will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aeroclone]

There are similarities between McCarney and Rhoads, some positive and some not so much. Rhoads has better facilities and better opportunities for bowl games simply because of the crazy number of bowl games these days. There were things I really liked about McCarney, in some ways he never got enough credit for what he did at ISU. I do like Rhoads, he has done a good job moving things in the right direction. The jury is still out....what happens in the next three years will decide if Rhoads is, or isn't a big improvement over McCarney.

Wouldn't really agree about CPR having a better shot at bowls. Every team under Mac that reached bowl eligibility received a bid. The same has been the case for CPR, and in either case there really has never been any doubt.

The proliferation in bowl games since the early Mac days seems to make more of a difference for mid-majors or BCS programs that don't travel worth a crap.

 

[dmclone]

One thing people forget about is how bad our defense use to be. During the Loney days we would have to score a ton to win games.

 

[nhclone]

What was ISU's record before and after that big JUCO recruiting class? Do you know?

:skeptical:

The big JUCO class was signed in 202, so they began playing in 2003. In the 2 years before they came, we were 7-5('01) and 7-7('02) counting bowl games. In 2003 and 2004, we were 2-10 and 7-5. I'm not sure what point was trying to be made, but there it is.

EDIT: I checked on cyclpones.com and my years are off. The 2 years before that JUCO class were 9-3 and 7-5, the 2 years after were 7-7 and 2-10.

 

[dunar]

The 9 JUCO players:

Amecus Daniels, DB, 3*
Mike Hmoud, OL, 3*
Curtis James, OL, 4*
Collin Menard, OL, 4*
Saheed Richardson, DE, 3*
Frederico Samuel, DT, 4*
Max Steward, LB, 4*
Waye Terry, QB, 3*
Emmanuel Valcourt, OL, 3*

Waye Terry was the starter by the end of '03, broke his neck at Mizzou. He would have battled Flynn and Meyer for the starting spot in '04. I believe he is still in the DSM area.

 

[CykoAGR]

There are similarities between McCarney and Rhoads, some positive and some not so much. Rhoads has better facilities and better opportunities for bowl games simply because of the crazy number of bowl games these days. There were things I really liked about McCarney, in some ways he never got enough credit for what he did at ISU. I do like Rhoads, he has done a good job moving things in the right direction. The jury is still out....what happens in the next three years will decide if Rhoads is, or isn't a big improvement over McCarney.

I really dont see a whole lot of similarities between the two other than passion and commitment to the cause. Mac and CPR are/were both very dedicated to ISU and cared for the team and university.

Yes CPR has and advantage in facilities but even now we dont really compete with the big boys. Yes our new facilties are state of the art but lets face it we dont have the lure of a TX or OK etc.

You mention a greater opportunity for bowls which by number of potential bowl games you could be correct. However the level of competition in the B12 now is far and away better than when Mac was here. He competed against 2-3 good teams but we still had the divisions and an 8 game conference sched.

The other thing is that CPR and his teams play a completely different type of FB than Mac. Exciting (ish), uptempo offense and gadget plays on offense and special teams are a 180 from what Macs teams did.

I do agree that the next 2-3 yrs are key to determining Rhoads' legacy at ISU. Win 7 or more consistently with a 8-10 win year and we have a legend, hang around 5-6 wins and the momentum fizzles.

 

[Aclone]

The 9 JUCO players:

Amecus Daniels, DB, 3*
Mike Hmoud, OL, 3*
Curtis James, OL, 4*
Collin Menard, OL, 4*
Saheed Richardson, DE, 3*
Frederico Samuel, DT, 4*
Max Steward, LB, 4*
Waye Terry, QB, 3*
Emmanuel Valcourt, OL, 3*

Did Menard play quite a bit ?
Terry had to retire IIRC because of neck injury but he couldn't beat Austin Flynn.
I'm not familiar with the others - so, yes, they looked like busts.

Hadn't Terry switched to linebacker before he got hurt? Another sign of how thin mac's teams continually were. CPR's team is in far, far better shape depth-wise. Hmm. Perhaps another post. :wink:

I think Menard was in the two-deep, but the only person listed with that class who played alot on the OL was Scott Stephenson, who transferred from Minnesota, and started two years, despite being hampered by injuries.

Kinda sad how good this class could have been, either if all of these guys had made it into school...OR if Mac had simply signed that many more good, solid 3-star high school players instead.

 

[Clone83]

Mac's enthusiasm turned it around IMO, from the lowest of lows. He was the man for the job. I'm not sure many others could have done it at that point.

Then things plateaued at best.

I'd have to look up the specific year, but I'm pretty sure what really hurt Marty Fine's first year was a killer schedule, the toughest in the country, the ole OU/UT 2 year rotation, on and off ISU's schedule. Not that he was the man for the job, but I seem to recall a huge win over UI, and then getting killed by OU and others for the rest of the year, whereas the season before was pretty good.

Again I'm not positive of the year, but that scheduling aspect really mattered a couple years like that.

I also remember some close ISU losses in Mac's early years, where ISU just didn't have the horses to hang on in the end. The closeness of those games probably made it harder to sneak up on people and pull off some upsets at a later date.

 

[Aclone]

I also remember some close ISU losses in Mac's early years, where ISU just didn't have the horses to hang on in the end. The closeness of those games probably made it harder to sneak up on people and pull off some upsets at a later date.

You mean, like the Alabama game, where a FG was ruled a miss by a referee who later admitted to being blind in one eye?

 

[CarolinaCy]

You mean, like the Alabama game, where a FG was ruled a miss by a referee who later admitted to being blind in one eye?

We lost the Bama game because we let them block a punt when everyone in the stadium and watching on TV knew they were coming after it. Well, everyone except for Tony Yelk apparently, who calmly took the snap, took his usual forever 3 step approach, and promptly kicked it into the oncoming rush. :realmad:

 

[Clone83]

You mean, like the Alabama game, where a FG was ruled a miss by a referee who later admitted to being blind in one eye?

Yeah, that, but even before that against conference competition. Our guys had the heart but just weren't as big and athletic. It would have been a big morale boost to win one or two of those, as it finally was with that big win against UI, snapping the 15 game streak or whatever.

 

[cycloneML]

Rhoads is out of gas after 3 years. it took McCarney 12 years to run out of gas.

 

[Tailg8er]

For the love of god people stop quoting the OP's entire original post, it is just too damn long.

This has been my exact thought while reading this thread. Not that I don't appreciate the OP for writing this up.

Great Post OP.

But, doesn't ^this^ do the exact same thing as those quoting the original post?? You're posting in the thread, we get that you're replying to the OP!

 

[kilgore_trout]

post this when CPR starts "playing not to lose". otherwise it's a rhetorical question that you wasted a lot of thought on.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

 

[Aclone]

post this when CPR starts "playing not to lose". otherwise it's a rhetorical question that you wasted a lot of thought on.

I was actually hoping to post it BEFORE he thought too seriously about taking a lot of JUCO shortcuts! :biggrin:

 

[mikem]

You have to admit though there are some people who absolutely loved having a roster with lots of in-state players. It gives them a rooting interest in the program outside sheer wins and losses, and they feel the program better represents the local community.

Personally, I could care less where the players are from and just want to win. If they're local that's a cool bonus, but it should not be at the expense of winning.

That was part of the sales job that kept him employed longer than he should have.

There is a segment of Iowa State fans that could go 1-11 if they beat iowa. Mercifully, that group is shrinking. Ironically enough mac the mediocre was one of the greatest promoters of the "little brother" syndrome. Even his last press conference in between begging for a job and letting everyone know that he was not retiring, the FIRST ******* think that he took credit for was making the hawk game a rivalry again.

I actually understand why he did it. He knew that appealed to a lot of the fanbase, and in all actuality, the list of his real "accomplishments" wasn't that long.

I remember hearing from UNI coaches that used to laugh at mac. They used to keep a list names of Iowa kids that they didn't think could walk on for them, that were getting scholarships here.

It fed the idea that you could continue to personalize the coach and the program. When you personalize a coach, it makes it harder to criticize and eventually fire him.

Mac tried and tried to get other jobs, don't kid yourself on that. He thought that 9-3 team would get him out of here. The fact that people on here don't realize that is probably because he was never really considered for one of the jobs he chased.

I was 11 years old, and still remember HIM putting HIS OWN name in for the TCU job, and their AD saying he wasn't a candidate. I was worried at that point, because we won 8 games, and I thought he had turned the program around. Little did I know that he was what he was.

 

[Frak]

That was part of the sales job that kept him employed longer than he should have.

There is a segment of Iowa State fans that could go 1-11 if they beat iowa. Mercifully, that group is shrinking. Ironically enough mac the mediocre was one of the greatest promoters of the "little brother" syndrome. Even his last press conference in between begging for a job and letting everyone know that he was not retiring, the FIRST ******* think that he took credit for was making the hawk game a rivalry again.

I actually understand why he did it. He knew that appealed to a lot of the fanbase, and in all actuality, the list of his real "accomplishments" wasn't that long.

The reason it was appealing was because of the pure jackassery that was the hawkeye fanbase. You think those guys are bad now? Try after 15 straight losses to them. Normal people would be ashamed to see their fellow fans act that poorly toward others, but not the 80's and 90's hok fan. They took their lead from ole Raisin Face, the Pied Piper of Dooshbaggery. The sheer arrogance was disgusting. If you had an ISU shirt on, they acted like they were automatically better than you. And most of them were the old tavernhawks...white trash trailer-dwelling community college dropouts who spent their Saturdays in the bar rooting on their beloved hawks. Yeah, THOSE losers took it as their responsibility to look down on college degree-holding ISU fan. You better believe that there was a sentiment from the ISU fanbase to want to shove those 15 wins down some throats. When ISU was winning 5 in a row, there was a lot of rubbing noses in the crap that hokeye fans had been slinging for 15. And they deserved every freaking bit of it.

Mac played up that rivalry and probably kept his job for longer than he should have because he won vs iowa. Thankfully, most of the fanbase has moved past that game being the most important on the schedule. ISU has proven that they can play with the big boys at times. Personally, I'd MUCH rather beat a top five ranked OU team at home than an unranked iowa in IC.

 

[Frak]

The big JUCO class was signed in 202, so they began playing in 2003. In the 2 years before they came, we were 7-5('01) and 7-7('02) counting bowl games. In 2003 and 2004, we were 2-10 and 7-5. I'm not sure what point was trying to be made, but there it is.

EDIT: I checked on cyclpones.com and my years are off. The 2 years before that JUCO class were 9-3 and 7-5, the 2 years after were 7-7 and 2-10.

You're wrong there. That class was signed in Feb '02 and joined the team the following fall. There's a reason why Seneca was running for his life the whole year and there was no running game...the utter failure of that JUCO class to produce even one contributor on the OL that year. It was a gamble and it failed miserably.