Our D - better than advertised

[Aclone]

A coach can only do so much with poo though.

Did you really just call our players "poo"?

 

[CycloneErik]

If we've learned anything during the Paul Rhoads era, it's that defense alone doesn't win in the Big XII. The Cyclones had as good a defense as any team in the league in 2012 and barely got to a bowl game.

I'm not worried about the defense because, frankly, it doesn't matter that much. Rhoads and Burnham have shown us they can produce a quality defense with relatively little talent. If the new offensive coaches can take advantage of the best talent in the CPR era, Rhoads will be able to build this young defense enough to compete with the top of the league within the next couple years.

I'm not convinced about the "relatively little talent" part. There were a lot of NFL guys out there, between Knott, Klein, LJ, Sims, and anyone I'm forgetting.

 

[dualthreat]

I'll need to see an effective defense in the post-Jake Knott era before I get really excited about what he'll do.
I think Wally is good, but he hasn't proven much without Knott.

Well he also coached him to BE Jake Knott. We're talking about an un-recruited 2-star kid that wasn't even drafted who played like a first team all big 12 player for two or three years. I give a lot of credit to Wally for that. It's not like Jake was Derrick Brooks.

 

[Cyhart]

Our D is going to be awful no matter how you slice it.

There are way too many unknowns at this point to automatically conclude the defense will be awful.

 

[IcSyU]

I'm not convinced about the "relatively little talent" part. There were a lot of NFL guys out there, between Knott, Klein, LJ, Sims, and anyone I'm forgetting.

A defense is only as good as the front four let it be. A good front four will cover up a lot of weaknesses in the back 7. A bad front four makes a strong back 7 weak.

 

[drednot57]

My response: We shall see. There are too many unknown factors pertaining to the whole team, much less the defense. Our attitude should be "wait and see."

 

[Stormin]

My response: We shall see. There are too many unknown factors pertaining to the whole team, much less the defense. Our attitude should be "wait and see."

IMO, Alton Meeks is a stud and future star at Middle Linebacker. He was a state high school wrestling champion. He has really good size at 6'3" and about 250 lbs. And he has great athleticism as he was a HS QB. At this point he is listed ahead of JUCO Jordan Harris. Meeks redshirted last year and entered ISU early and has had two springs here already. With his size, speed and athleticism, the potential is very high. And we have the rest of our Linebackers back. So overall, I could see an improvement at the Linebackers, even though we lose Jeremiah George. Cornerbacks should actually be better than last year as we return Nigel Tribune, along with Richardson and Lynn. Safety is a concern, but we have numbers to draw from and should be okay. I actually see our DE's as being better than last year. And the DT's being a push at worst. Possibly better. Jensen is back and Cousin has a lot of potential. Throw the other youngsters in there and we should be okay, they do have potential.

We just need to be patient and wait and see.

 

[Section110]

There are way too many unknowns at this point to automatically conclude the defense will be awful.

Agreed, but you could say the same thing the other way around as well. There are way too many unknowns at this point to automatically conclude it won't be awful (which is what the majority of people in this thread are attempting to do). Really the only tangible evidence anyone has to go off of is last year, and... well... that just isn't any fun.

 

[Wesley]

Hoping for a Top 80 defense and a Top 70 offense. Better than last year.

 

[The_Architect]

My D is also better than advertised, or so my wife tells me.

FYI she also told that to all the other guys she screwed before you. LOL.

Sorry I had to :twitcy:

 

[Tre4ISU]

First off, for those of you that think the defense wasn't that bad last year and it was all the offense's fault, you're wrong. The defense was basically as bad as the offense last year IMO.

UNI scored TD's on their first 3 possessions against us. Yes, our offense didn't answer like they should have, but there's no way our defense should ever allow UNI to run up and down the field on us all night. They were bad. And Iowa did the same thing basically. We knew Iowa would come into the game wanting to run, and they did, and we still couldn't stop them.

Now, on to this year. On paper, this defense appears to be worse than last years. We lost some key players on the DL, LB, and both safeties. And we replace them mostly with supposedly talented, but young and inexperienced players. That is a recipe for disaster generally.

However, I'm hopeful that losing Irving and Coe are actually going to be addition by subtraction. I'm beginning to think that these two were a cancer on this team. Just look at Brandon Jensen leaving the team, and then when finding out that Irving and Coe were gone, he then comes back.

I think losing Irving and Coe will be a good thing hopefully. I think the defense will play together much more this season as a unit instead of a bunch of individuals. I would MUCH rather start Jensen and Cousin inside than Irving and Coe, let's put it that way. So I think the D-line could be ok with those two inside, and Morrissey and Myers or a JUCO at DE.

LB does scare me quite a bit. Over the last few seasons we've lost Knott, Klein, and now George. And I'm not sold on anyone we've replaced them with at this point. Yeah, of course Brackens and the younger Knott have shown glimpses at times of what they could be, but they are still pretty unproven IMO. We will need to depend on Jordan Harris to learn the system so he knows where he's supposed to be, and then on young guys like Seeley, Meeks, Mills, and White to step it up. I'm still not sold on Jevohn Miller either. He seems to be ok against the run, but a big liability against the pass. So we shall see. Oops, I almost forgot about Levi Peters! I love this kid. I look for him to get quite a few minutes this year. He's just a bulldog. Not full of talent, but boy does he bring it. All out, all the time. I love that!

I think we'll be ok at corner. At safety though, we lose both starters. However, here is where I think we do have a couple of really talented young guys that could end up being REALLY good. I love the potential of Cotton-Moya and Mutcherson back there. I'm sure there will be some growing pains, but these two could become All Big 12 safeties in a couple years IMO.

So in summation... I think losing Irving and Coe could be a good thing potentially. If the JUCO's can provide decent depth on the DL, I think the DL will be ok.... it will likely all depend on how much pressure they can get on the opposing QB's. If they have all day to pass, it will be a LONG year in the pass happy Big 12. LB position scares me the most right now. We needed a couple of JUCO's at LB last year IMO, and we didn't go out and get any. That hurt us big time IMO.

Holy hell your reasoning is incredible. We watched Brackens play a whole year, Miller played and Knott played, but you aren't real sure because you haven't seen enough. Meanwhile we are really excited about 2 safeties that haven't seen more that some special teams work.

 

[wonkadog]

If we've learned anything during the Paul Rhoads era, it's that defense alone doesn't win in the Big XII. The Cyclones had as good a defense as any team in the league in 2012 and barely got to a bowl game.

I'm not worried about the defense because, frankly, it doesn't matter that much. Rhoads and Burnham have shown us they can produce a quality defense with relatively little talent. If the new offensive coaches can take advantage of the best talent in the CPR era, Rhoads will be able to build this young defense enough to compete with the top of the league within the next couple years.

You mean the one that gave up over 400 yards in the Liberty Bowl to Tulsa, 300+ on the ground? I just wish that for once our defense could even give a hint that they can stop the run consistently.

 

[RustShack]

Hoping for a Top 80 defense and a Top 70 offense. Better than last year.

We are capable if being top 50 in both areas.

 

[Section110]

We are capable if being top 50 in both areas.

This is simply not going to happen. Offense maybe... but I think it's terribly unrealistic to assume the defense is capable of jumping into the top 50 after a season where they were one of the worst in college football. Lost too many players, and the front seven will struggle. Plus the fact they are going to be matched up against some high scoring offenses. I think it's crazy to think top 50 is realistic.

Then again I suppose every team is "capable" of doing anything. Maybe you're an extreme optimist. I think top 80 would be a step in the right direction as Wesley previously suggested.

 

[Stormin]

This is simply not going to happen. Offense maybe... but I think it's terribly unrealistic to assume the defense is capable of jumping into the top 50 after a season where they were one of the worst in college football. Lost too many players, and the front seven will struggle. Plus the fact they are going to be matched up against some high scoring offenses. I think it's crazy to think top 50 is realistic.

Then again I suppose every team is "capable" of doing anything. Maybe you're an extreme optimist. I think top 80 would be a step in the right direction as Wesley previously suggested.

Wasn't it just last year that Iowa had unknowns in their Defensive Line and it was expected to be a weakness? Those unknowns performed well and now return and the Defensive Line is considered to be their greatest strength.

We actually have some good returners to the Defensive Line and some good newcomers. IMO, they will be more than serviceable. We have had much worse DL's in the past with even less depth.

And our Defensive Line prospects are certainly much better than the Hawkeye Linebacking prospects. They lose all their starters. And have little depth and experience. They are just lucky to have such a weak schedule.

 

[rholtgraves]

Wasn't it just last year that Iowa had unknowns in their Defensive Line and it was expected to be a weakness? Those unknowns performed well and now return and the Defensive Line is considered to be their greatest strength.

We actually have some good returners to the Defensive Line and some good newcomers. IMO, they will be more than serviceable. We have had much worse DL's in the past with even less depth.

And our Defensive Line prospects are certainly much better than the Hawkeye Linebacking prospects. They lose all their starters. And have little depth and experience. They are just lucky to have such a weak schedule.

There is a difference. Iowa returned basically it's entire front seven and backups last year. This Year ISU lost Maggit, Coe and Irving. The most important being Coe and Irving bc they were improving. Now it's like ISU has to go back to the beginning of last year trying to break in new DT's. Morrisey will be improved and should have a goo year but he can't do it alone. The big caveat is if somehow the JUCO guys can perform well right from the start but I would bet the struggle at first.

Also, what do you mean the DL has better prospects than Iowa's LBs? Do you mean based on their recruiting profiles?

 

[Stormin]

There is a difference. Iowa returned basically it's entire front seven and backups last year. This Year ISU lost Maggit, Coe and Irving. The most important being Coe and Irving bc they were improving. Now it's like ISU has to go back to the beginning of last year trying to break in new DT's. Morrisey will be improved and should have a goo year but he can't do it alone. The big caveat is if somehow the JUCO guys can perform well right from the start but I would bet the struggle at first.

Also, what do you mean the DL has better prospects than Iowa's LBs? Do you mean based on their recruiting profiles?

Maggit was gone before. We lost Willie Scott. Coe and Irving were sometimes starters. Brandon Jensen returns and was a starter at Nose Guard last year. Morrissey was our best DE last year and returns. Devlyn Cousin was on the 2 deep as a RS Freshman. And with the added Juco's like Pierson and Luna plus Mitchell Myers who has shown great promise along with Aka, Garcia, Trent, the ISU D-Line has as much depth as we have ever had.

Iowa has 3 unknowns as starters and there is a complete lack of depth behind them. I will take the 2 starters on our D-Line over your Zero returning starters at LB. And I point out the numbers from which we will get our other 2 starters and depth in our line. Cole Fisher is backing up 2 linebacker spots on the 2 deep. Better hope you have zero injuries.

 

[BlackHawk]

Maggit was gone before. We lost Willie Scott. Coe and Irving were sometimes starters. Brandon Jensen returns and was a starter at Nose Guard last year. Morrissey was our best DE last year and returns. Devlyn Cousin was on the 2 deep as a RS Freshman. And with the added Juco's like Pierson and Luna plus Mitchell Myers who has shown great promise along with Aka, Garcia, Trent, the ISU D-Line has as much depth as we have ever had.

Iowa has 3 unknowns as starters and there is a complete lack of depth behind them. I will take the 2 starters on our D-Line over your Zero returning starters at LB. And I point out the numbers from which we will get our other 2 starters and depth in our line. Cole Fisher is backing up 2 linebacker spots on the 2 deep. Better hope you have zero injuries.

I'd take guys who could've seen the field were they not behind 4 yr starters who were all conference, 6th all time at Iowa in career tackles, along with other numerous awards and had a shot to play in the NFL over 2 returning guys from one of the worst D-lines I've ever seen. Not to mention you talk up all this depth you have who has yet to even see a snap in major college football.

 

[rholtgraves]

Maggit was gone before. We lost Willie Scott. Coe and Irving were sometimes starters. Brandon Jensen returns and was a starter at Nose Guard last year. Morrissey was our best DE last year and returns. Devlyn Cousin was on the 2 deep as a RS Freshman. And with the added Juco's like Pierson and Luna plus Mitchell Myers who has shown great promise along with Aka, Garcia, Trent, the ISU D-Line has as much depth as we have ever had.

Iowa has 3 unknowns as starters and there is a complete lack of depth behind them. I will take the 2 starters on our D-Line over your Zero returning starters at LB. And I point out the numbers from which we will get our other 2 starters and depth in our line. Cole Fisher is backing up 2 linebacker spots on the 2 deep. Better hope you have zero injuries.

Yeah. That's Scott is who I meant. Jensen is not very good. So I don't know I would be saying he is a reason the Dline will be good.
Cousin could turn out to be good but he will have lots of growing pains and I doubt he is on the level of Coe and Irving yet. And the rest of you guys aren't great recruits and haven't played. So again. Not much evidence the line will be better.

Also, the Iowa players aren't my players.

Some of the stuff you say is pretty hilarious.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

You mean the one that gave up over 400 yards in the Liberty Bowl to Tulsa, 300+ on the ground? I just wish that for once our defense could even give a hint that they can stop the run consistently.

I think he meant to add, 'before Jake Knott got hurt'. If Knott hadn't got hurt, we would have won 7 or 8 games and been at the Holiday bowl.