If you're looking to entertain yourself...

[CycloneErik]

Judging by your post, you seem pretty emotional about it, so I'm guessing its not possible to have a reasonable discussion here but I'll give it a shot.

If a team is a #1 seed how can they possibly exceed expectations? Only four teams out of 300some division one teams get to go to the final four. "Only" making the elite eight is nothing to sneeze at. I thought VCU had a good gameplan and executed it well. I'm almost always of the mindset to give the victors the credit for winning instead talking about why someone lost. Obviously alot of KU's shooting woes had to do with the fact that VCU played good defense.

I'm not going to get into a debate about referees, too difficult measure the refs effect on there season when I only have watched them play 2x's vs us, B12 & NCAA tournament.

It is hard to be more correct about the game than this. VCU played an outstanding game during an outstanding roll. Credit to VCU. It's not like Kansas wasn't playing hard out there.

Perhaps against my better judgment, I feel the need to get involved in this thread to point this out:

KU has more tournament wins in the last 10 tournaments (2002-2011) than any other school - and it's not especially close. If Kansas is choking every year, what do we call what every other school in the country is doing?

I'm no defender of the Jayhawks, but you're right on this. Wasn't this their 3rd or 4th Elite Eight in 8 years with Bill Self? If that's underperforming, sign me up.

 

[WalkingCY]

Not making free throws in a pressure situation is choking. Shooting worse than their average in no way can be considered to alleviate the choke tag.
Ok, now on to the next point.

agree. "They choked." How can anyone not say that KU didn't choke from the stripe yesterday? Most of those misses were absolute bricks.

Loved it all too. Too bad J-Sqawks.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I agree with a few others that I would hardly label this loss as 'choking'... Yes, they didn't shoot good from the stripe and missed shots that they normally would have go down, however I don't believe it was a choking loss for them...

Choking would have been if they had the chance to tie/lead the game with those free throws late in the game; or perhaps if they missed lay-ins that would have took the lead for them. For much of the game and most importantly the final 8 minutes plus it felt like VCU had control of the game, although the early part of the second was clearly KU's... They didn't choke, they just got out-played today...

Like I said earlier....

It is much easier to hit jumpers, hit 3's, and make your FT's when you jump out to a 29-9 lead on your opponent. The win was never in doubt when Kansas beat Richmond. They shot 47.6% from the floor, shot 47.4% from 3, and shot 80% from the FT line.

It is much more difficult to hit jumpers, hit 3's, and make your FT's when you are down early and your opponent is raining 3's all over you. Not to mention that you are the heavy favorite, the team with more tradition, the team that is supposed to blow teams like VCU out of the water, the team that is supposed to win National Titles, etc... So yeah... All of the pressure in the world was on KU's shoulders and their players all of a sudden couldn't make a shot to save their life. The Morris twins were missing bunnies under the basket, Morningstar and Reed couldn't throw a ball into the ocean from a boat, etc.....

It was the classic choke job. Kansas had far better talent at every single position on the floor then their counterpart. Kansas had far better talent sitting on their bench then what their counterpart had. Kansas had a far more experienced coach and staff sitting on their bench then their counterpart did. There is a reason that Kansas had a 35-2 record heading into that basketball game after playing a much tougher schedule then VCU. Kansas was the better team without question. VCU played a great game there is no doubt about that but to look at the body of work that Kansas put on display in that game it is impossible to say anything other then Kansas felt the pressure and absolutely choked.

 

[joefrog]

More wins in the last decade? With their inflated annual seeding, KU is almost guaranteed two gimme games in the tourney, and even they can screw that up. Heck, even this year the NCAA gave them what should have been a cakewalk to the Final Four. The lowest seeded team they played was a 9. A 9. Pretty easy to dominate the dojo Kramer style when you are stacked with McD's AA year in year out and you play schools that people have to ask "where are they from?".

Seems KU can't ever really get to the promised land unless they lure some top talent to KU by giving their parent a special job at KU that only seems to last as long as their eligibility. That is a fact, and I hope it burns, because you can look that one up. Here, I will do the hard work for you:

Larry Brown had shocked many by leaving the New Jersey Nets to become head coach at KU, and Brown, a North Carolina grad with lingering ties to UNC coach Dean Smith, had heard all about Manning.
But how could Brown possibly interest Manning in coming to Kansas? By hiring his dad as an assistant coach.
Ed Manning, a former teammate of Brown in the old ABA, had been working as a over-the-road trucker when the call came. Did Ed Manning want to drive a truck or be a college assistant coach? A real no-brainer.

Manning's KU legacy unequaled / LJWorld.com

2008 Final Four hero Mario Chalmers arrived at KU with his dad, Ronnie. The elder Chalmers -- a respected coach at the high school level -- served as director of basketball operations for Bill Self. As often seems to be the case in these situations, Ronnie Chalmers left KU shortly after his son.

Package Deals - Recruiting "package deals" under NCAA scrutiny

Oh, and I forgot how easy the NCAA made it for them in 2008 too. A recap:

They benefit by this strange seeding by receiving a draw of playing a 16 seed, an 8 seed, a 12 seed, and a 10 seed to get to the final four.

Missouri Tigers Athletics :: Mizzou College Sports :: TigerBoard.com :: The Self Years

Click on that above link if you want to relive the scum that is KU basketball. I cannot for the life of me understand why any Cyclone fan would ever cheer for KU. At ISU, Hubalek has to sit out games for using a beat up old car with Hawkeye plates on it that he borrowed for errands. At ISU, Lucca misses a year of basketball for benefits teammates received. At ISU, players such as Gilstrap don't get the benefit of the doubt on eligibility, and the same goes for current players on our bench. At KU? Pffft. Nothing to see here. If it benefits KU, that is the way the NCAA rules.

KU is as disgusting to amateur sports as Husker or Hawkeye football.

 

[Ficklone02]

Ha, just as I thought. There's really no discussing this with you, you're too blinded by your hate for them to have a real discussion. But what's with the conversation misdirection? We're talking about KU's fortunes in the tournament, not recruiting. Also, who here is cheering for KU?

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Any team you play this far along in the tournament, no matter the seed is there because they're playing extremely well.

Are you suggesting that it is not possible to choke once you have reached the Elite Eight or Sweet 16?
Teams can choke against opponents better than them, let alone high seeds (teams viewed to be inferior). Like I said, it depends both on how they lost and to what seed.

 

[CYlent Bob]

Jayhawk tears are delicious! They taste just like candy-coated candy!

 

[azepp]

Kansas tounament summary... three cupcakes and choke.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzZXOSQ5GjE"]YouTube - Cupcake eating challenge ends badly - choking (Tosh.0)[/ame]

 

[JY07]

I guess I find it amazing that KU doesn't have anyone better than Reid and Morningstar to roll out there. Self must have really blew it in recruiting, because those two guys SUCK. I'd actually take ISU's guard court over KU's this season.

Reid and Morningstar couldn't hit anything today. They threw up brick after brick and Self never took them out. Must really not trust his bench I guess.

you make it sound like our shooters didn't have any 1 for 10 games

 

[Ficklone02]

Are you suggesting that it is not possible to choke once you have reached the Elite Eight or Sweet 16?
Teams can choke against opponents better than them, let alone high seeds (teams viewed to be inferior). Like I said, it depends both on how they lost and to what seed.

A choke job is what Memphis did in the national championship game where they had a nice lead with a few minutes left and couldn't finish off KU. KU was outplayed for the majority of the game vs VCU, and alot of that had to do with the play of VCU. All credit to them for winning the game.

 

[WalkingCY]

More wins in the last decade? With their inflated annual seeding, KU is almost guaranteed two gimme games in the tourney, and even they can screw that up. Heck, even this year the NCAA gave them what should have been a cakewalk to the Final Four. The lowest seeded team they played was a 9. A 9. Pretty easy to dominate the dojo Kramer style when you are stacked with McD's AA year in year out and you play schools that people have to ask "where are they from?".

Seems KU can't ever really get to the promised land unless they lure some top talent to KU by giving their parent a special job at KU that only seems to last as long as their eligibility. That is a fact, and I hope it burns, because you can look that one up. Here, I will do the hard work for you:

Larry Brown had shocked many by leaving the New Jersey Nets to become head coach at KU, and Brown, a North Carolina grad with lingering ties to UNC coach Dean Smith, had heard all about Manning.
But how could Brown possibly interest Manning in coming to Kansas? By hiring his dad as an assistant coach.
Ed Manning, a former teammate of Brown in the old ABA, had been working as a over-the-road trucker when the call came. Did Ed Manning want to drive a truck or be a college assistant coach? A real no-brainer.

Manning's KU legacy unequaled / LJWorld.com

2008 Final Four hero Mario Chalmers arrived at KU with his dad, Ronnie. The elder Chalmers -- a respected coach at the high school level -- served as director of basketball operations for Bill Self. As often seems to be the case in these situations, Ronnie Chalmers left KU shortly after his son.

Package Deals - Recruiting "package deals" under NCAA scrutiny

Oh, and I forgot how easy the NCAA made it for them in 2008 too. A recap:

They benefit by this strange seeding by receiving a draw of playing a 16 seed, an 8 seed, a 12 seed, and a 10 seed to get to the final four.

Missouri Tigers Athletics :: Mizzou College Sports :: TigerBoard.com :: The Self Years

Click on that above link if you want to relive the scum that is KU basketball. I cannot for the life of me understand why any Cyclone fan would ever cheer for KU. At ISU, Hubalek has to sit out games for using a beat up old car with Hawkeye plates on it that he borrowed for errands. At ISU, Lucca misses a year of basketball for benefits teammates received. At ISU, players such as Gilstrap don't get the benefit of the doubt on eligibility, and the same goes for current players on our bench. At KU? Pffft. Nothing to see here. If it benefits KU, that is the way the NCAA rules.

KU is as disgusting to amateur sports as Husker or Hawkeye football.

Gotta love this post!

 

[A-town Cy]

 

[swarthmoreCY]

A choke job is what Memphis did in the national championship game where they had a nice lead with a few minutes left and couldn't finish off KU. KU was outplayed for the majority of the game vs VCU, and alot of that had to do with the play of VCU. All credit to them for winning the game.

Yes, in that game Memphis had a great opportunity to win, and did not. Same thing with KU on a macro-scale, if not a micro in many of the losses.
KU was down by 5-7 points late in the game, having missed 10 or more free throws- if they did not choke at the line...

As long as two teams are playing, all the credit for the outcome can never go to one team.

 

[WalkingCY]

Ha! Awesome.

 

[Ficklone02]

Yes, in that game Memphis had a great opportunity to win, and did not. Same thing with KU on a macro-scale, if not a micro in many of the losses.
KU was down by 5-7 points late in the game, having missed 10 or more free throws- if they did not choke at the line...

As long as two teams are playing, all the credit for the outcome can never go to one team.

Completely disagree. I think its the nature of ISU fans to not want to give credit where credit due....like a defense mechanism or something.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Completely disagree. I think its the nature of ISU fans to not want to give credit where credit due....like a defense mechanism or something.

Interesting, I thought your reaction was due to you being an ISU fan and being tried of many ISU victorious upsets being eroded by the other team claiming they lost it and ISU did not win it...like a defense mechanism or something.

Not sure how you formulated your theory.

 

[Ficklone02]

Interesting, I thought your reaction was due to you being an ISU fan and being tried of many ISU victorious upsets being eroded by the other team claiming they lost it and ISU did not win it...like a defense mechanism or something.

Not sure how you formulated your theory.

Not sure where you came up with that one. Suffice to say we disagree.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

A choke job is what Memphis did in the national championship game where they had a nice lead with a few minutes left and couldn't finish off KU. KU was outplayed for the majority of the game vs VCU, and alot of that had to do with the play of VCU. All credit to them for winning the game.

So what do you call it when VCU plays absolutely lights out and KU plays like complete dog **** and the Jayhawks lose by 10 points?

10 points that would have easily been made up by shooting better then 35% from the floor, 9% from 3 point range, or 54% from the FT line?

How many games do you think Kansas played this year where they were down 18 points in the 1st half with their entire season hanging in the balance? If you said 1 game.... you are correct. Easy to see why the Jayhawks felt the heat and choked their ***** off.

The pressure got to them big time.

Kansas lost 2 games all year long.

In the Texas loss Kansas shot 35.9% from the floor, 31.6% from 3, and 61.1% from the FT line.

In the K-State loss Kansas shot 44% from the floor, 20% from 3, and 72.4% from the FT line.

In the VCU loss Kansas shot 35.5% from the floor, 9.5% from 3, and 54% from the FT line.

Now how is it possible that Kansas put up their worst numbers all season long in all 3 categories in the same game?

P-R-E-S-S-U-R-E. Folding under the pressure = Choking

 

[Ficklone02]

So what do you call it when VCU plays absolutely lights out and KU plays like complete dog **** and the Jayhawks lose by 10 points?

10 points that would have easily been made up by shooting better then 35% from the floor, 9% from 3 point range, or 54% from the FT line?

How many games do you think Kansas played this year where they were down 18 points in the 1st half with their entire season hanging in the balance? If you said 1 game.... you are correct. Easy to see why the Jayhawks felt the heat and choked their ***** off.

The pressure got to them big time.

I've already pointed out my view on that. You have to give VCU credit for a really well played game. In addition to that, I remember several instances where, when KU did get an open look the ball went in and out of the cup. Sometimes the ball just won't go down, even though you had several good attempts.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I've already pointed out my view on that. You have to give VCU credit for a really well played game. In addition to that, I remember several instances where, when KU did get an open look the ball went in and out of the cup. Sometimes the ball just won't go down, even though you had several good attempts.

Nobody is taking anything away from VCU. They played a great game. Probably their best game of the season. On the other side of the spectrum Kansas played their worst game of the season by a pretty good margin. VCU jumped on them early and built a cozy 18 point lead. Kansas was up against it trying to come from behind and all of a sudden their roster of McDonalds All Americans couldn't even make their FT's. Guys that were shooting over 40% from 3 point range all season long couldn't even come close to getting one to drop.

Kansas got rattled and the pressure most definitely got to them. Kansas is a pretty damn solid perimeter shooting team and they shot 9.5% for the game? They missed something like 20 3's and the majority of them were clean attempts without being really contested. Like I said... it is easy to be loose and shoot those shots and knock them down when you are ahead by 20. It is clearly another thing to shoot those shots when you are down double digits in the 2nd half with your season on the line.

Kansas plays with swagger. Those kids are loose, play fast, and don't make stupid decisions. Did anyone else watching that game think that Kansas looked loose, played fast without hesitation, and wasn't making stupid decisions? Hell... with about 8 minutes left in the game Kansas was playing frantic like they were down 4 points with 30 seconds to go. Everything was rushed, they made poor passes, they had poor shot selection, when the twins were getting offensive boards right under the basket they were throwing garbage shots up that had no chance of going in, and when they got uncontested opportunities at the FT line guys like Taylor who is a 72% FT shooter on the season short armed a couple of bricks up there.