Game of Thrones Season 8

[3GenClone]

Is it a challenge to make everything into some sort narrative on social norms? Half of these things aren't even true and the ones that are would be gender dependent. Cersei was going to die pregnant, Dany was snapping because she was a Targ and it's been talked about dozen's of times in the past, Arya just killed the ******* night king and they made a point to point out that Brienne was a virgin.

I liked the episode and I have to believe that this will be close to the narrative that the books would have taken. I just feel that the writing has been rushed to the detriment of the characters, especially the women characters. If we had the novels, I'm sure GRRM would have dug deep into the characters psyche on why they did what they did, but we don't have that. The Dany stuff I can buy, because right off the bat in this episode we hear she hasn't eaten in a few days and she looks run-down when she kills Varys. The voice-over of past Targaryen's going mad also helped sell the scene, but we've had so few of these moments that it seems out of place and more of a "cop-out" by the writers to help them say "yup, she crazy" rather than have hinted at that in previous seasons.

The Arya-Hound scene drove me nuts, because you could tell that Rory McCann and Maisie Williams were trying to sell something more than the Hound saying "you don't want to end up like me" and it just was not landing at all. You are right, Arya killed the Night King and it was awesome. Yet she is 100ft away from an unarmed and lightly guarded Cersei Lannister with the skills of an Assassin and training from various Knights and she just walks away. I feel like there is more to it that the books will sell better: such as Arya can change her face into anyone, yet the Hound proudly wears his scars as his identity and wouldn't change himself at all. Maybe that is what they were trying to do, but they didn't execute well.

 

[BoxsterCy]

Yes, Dany has always been very merciful to those who do not bend the knee to her...

My fav is when she walled in the couple, alive. And by "fav" I mean example of how she is a nasty mean power hungry tyrant that has to be convinced to not be worse while convincing herself she loves the people. She had a cruel streak for seasons.

Plus, who could have thought the city was going to burn? Several seasons of Tyrion saying like a hundred times "You don't have to burn King's Landing" and "You don't want to burn King's Landing" or "These people are not your enemy".

If "The Crypt is safe!" was telegraphed than this was megaphoned.

 

[Bret44]

Yes, Dany has always been very merciful to those who do not bend the knee to her...

I don't know if I'd equate two Highborn enemies to millions of innocent small folk, but hey, that's just me.

 

[Dandy]

That prophecy was never part of the show story line.

I am aware of that... but if GRRM is ending the books like the show...

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I am aware of that... but if GRRM is ending the books like the show...

I don’t believe the end of the books is going to resemble the shows. This show made GRRM a superstar, and has sold millions of books for him. He also has other shows in development with HBO so he has to say that it is close.

 

[cycloneG]

I am aware of that... but if GRRM is ending the books like the show...

The books and show have always had differences. This is just another difference. Lots of stuff that happened in the books never made it into the show.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Then that isn't earned. I'm sorry, the reason she got in trouble with the dothraki in the first season is that she wanted to stop the wanton destruction. She nearly sacrificed everything 3 EPISODES AGO to help Jon to save the realm. Now she's a mass murderer? She just snapped? I don't think this is earned at all. I think it's stupid. And I've said it a ton of times, but it just goes to show how hard it is to land these huge fantasy epics. It almost always ends badly.

They call it snapping for a reason...

 

[bawbie]

The Arya-Hound scene drove me nuts, because you could tell that Rory McCann and Maisie Williams were trying to sell something more than the Hound saying "you don't want to end up like me" and it just was not landing at all. You are right, Arya killed the Night King and it was awesome. Yet she is 100ft away from an unarmed and lightly guarded Cersei Lannister with the skills of an Assassin and training from various Knights and she just walks away. I feel like there is more to it that the books will sell better: such as Arya can change her face into anyone, yet the Hound proudly wears his scars as his identity and wouldn't change himself at all. Maybe that is what they were trying to do, but they didn't execute well.

I took that completely differently - maybe incorrectly - as a conversation that Arya's work wasn't done because Cersei wasn't the threat anymore - Dany is now.

 

[Trice]

I liked the episode and I have to believe that this will be close to the narrative that the books would have taken. I just feel that the writing has been rushed to the detriment of the characters, especially the women characters. If we had the novels, I'm sure GRRM would have dug deep into the characters psyche on why they did what they did, but we don't have that. The Dany stuff I can buy, because right off the bat in this episode we hear she hasn't eaten in a few days and she looks run-down when she kills Varys. The voice-over of past Targaryen's going mad also helped sell the scene, but we've had so few of these moments that it seems out of place and more of a "cop-out" by the writers to help them say "yup, she crazy" rather than have hinted at that in previous seasons.

The Arya-Hound scene drove me nuts, because you could tell that Rory McCann and Maisie Williams were trying to sell something more than the Hound saying "you don't want to end up like me" and it just was not landing at all. You are right, Arya killed the Night King and it was awesome. Yet she is 100ft away from an unarmed and lightly guarded Cersei Lannister with the skills of an Assassin and training from various Knights and she just walks away. I feel like there is more to it that the books will sell better: such as Arya can change her face into anyone, yet the Hound proudly wears his scars as his identity and wouldn't change himself at all. Maybe that is what they were trying to do, but they didn't execute well.

Agreed, and I think situations like this are where the rushed storylines try to wrap things up so quickly they aren't quite plausible. Like Dany with the throne, Arya has spent literally years building toward the moment where she takes out Cersei. She rides from Winterfell with the Hound to complete the deed and even hints that she doesn't think she'll survive the trip. She's obviously committed. And then, right on the precipice of her moment of glory, he talks her out of it in 15 seconds?

Just as maddening...when the Hound finally reaches the Mountain on the staircase. Qyburn dies, the Mountain obviously no longer cares about protecting Cersei any longer so she tries to leave, going down the stairs and passing right by the Hound and he just...lets her go? All it takes is one thrust of his sword to dispatch of her. Zero cost, zero danger. And he lets her go. Come on. (Yes, as he stated to Arya, he knows Cersei will die one way or the other, but still.)

 

[ThatllDoCy]

For the madness crowd. Dany’s Father was a paranoid schizophrenic who didn’t cut his hair or fingernails, like, he had claws. Even Rhaegar knew it. It took years of that behavior to amount to rebellion after burning Ned’s father and brother. This does not equate to Dany snapping IMO. It’s unearned.

Now, Viserys? OK if it were Viserys I would be on board, and if this were the point why didn’t he win the throne.

 

[3GenClone]

I took that completely differently - maybe incorrectly - as a conversation that Arya's work wasn't done because Cersei wasn't the threat anymore - Dany is now.

And maybe I was so focused on "Arya's List" that I missed what you saw. I guess to your point that certainly would fit Arya's motivation for the Series Finale, but she didn't seem to think Dany was the threat until she was fleeing the city. Dany's attack really didn't matter to either Arya or The Hound.

 

[BoxsterCy]

I guess the Valonqar ended up being... the Red Keep roof?

Architectural lessons I have learned in the last month:

1. Well built medieval stone arch ceilings hold up remarkably well against a big regular fire. #NotreDame
2. Stone arch ceilings are not a match for dragon fire. #RedKeep

 

[Cyclonepride]

I don't know if I'd equate two Highborn enemies to millions of innocent small folk, but hey, that's just me.

If you can self-justify death in the pursuit of power, the number doesn't really matter.

 

[State43]

For the madness crowd. Dany’s Father was a paranoid schizophrenic who didn’t cut his hair or fingernails, like, he had claws. Even Rhaegar knew it. It took years of that behavior to amount to rebellion after burning Ned’s father and brother. This does not equate to Dany snapping IMO. It’s unearned.

Now, Viserys? OK if it were Viserys I would be on board, and if this were the point why didn’t he win the throne.

Agreed. Like I said, when she decided to snap on top of that building, I could see her roasting the surrendered lanister army. That impulse (still cruel and unnecessary) would fit the anger/rage feeling for her character and then maybe flying up to the keep and buring it apart. But to start just buring regular people running after keeping her composure destroying the scorpions/defense forces was again, over the top to force all of us watchers to say "She snapped, it just is what it is." and imo lazy.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

Guys, it’s an incredible show from the technical standpoint. Acting, cinematography, costumes, etc. The writing of the characters has deteriorated to an astounding degree. Watch the first four seasons, and tell me the dialogue or characters are anywhere near that in the final three seasons.

In particular, Tyrion has been reduced to penis jokes, Jon has been the dumbest character by far, they are now just writing Sansa as Cersei. Jaimie’s arc was completely ruined.

Last night’s show delivered on action, but they’ve destroyed the characters and made them completely one note and inhuman to do it. They wanted done with it, when there was more than enough material for 10-12 seasons. That’s their right.

The characters matter. I now feel completely detached from the show, and may as well just watch a movie about a disaster. Characters IMO shouldn’t be used to deliver stunning visuals, or just to subvert expectations for that sake alone.

At what point in the series did they completely lose the books to use as a crutch for storytelling?

 

[HGoat1]

There were a lot of signs in the show that Dany was heading in this direction, but I didn't want to believe it was going to happen.

I did feel that Daenerys actions were a little antithetical to who she is.

If they were going to go this route, I think they could have done a better job of making her character story a tragedy rather than one of an evil tyrant who became unhinged.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

 

[BoxsterCy]

I'm stealing this from Binge Mode... but IMO the ending of the story is that you cannot escape your nature, or the things that have happened to you in the past. Dany - unable to shed the Targ madness. Jaime and Cersei - unable to shed their love for each other. Cleganes - unable to escape fire/violence. Basically, nobody can resist their nature or be changed by events in their lives. Who has grown in this show?

Of the living? Only the fat guy, Samwell. The only other non-****** up character is Hot Pie. And, Davos, probably. I think i could have a beer with Davos without worrying about his motives. So yah, Samwell, Hot Pie, Davos and me having some eats and drink. Sounds safe enough.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

At what point in the series did they completely lose the books to use as a crutch for storytelling?

I think season 5 they were on their own. Frankly, I am glad because they have not spoiled the books. This is way too hamhanded to take 8+ years of writing by someone with GRRM's skill.

One of the big reasons they make the decisions they make is to keep the most popular actors on screen. They destroyed Sansa's character for this reason IMO.

 

[heitclone]

Clegane bowl was the only decent ending for any of the deaths last night. They others felt really rushed and half assed. I also found it odd that as soon as she started burning everyone, we didn't see Dany the rest of the episode. That was intentional and will play in to next episode.

I still think Cersei's convo with Ned in season 1 is the most telling of the entire series. "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die, there is no middle ground". I take part of that as there are no good guys or bad guys, just winners and losers. I think in Dany, many saw a way that everyone could win, that things could be different. In the end, at best, she's the lesser of two evils.