Hate?

[aauummm]

A two day trend?

I am relatively new to this but I've already noticed a trend.

So you've been a member for just 2 days and you've noticed a trend? Anything else you've noticed in the last 2 days?

 

[IcSyU]

WBB and MBB are two HUGE differences. WBB can recruit a bunch of players in state. (Aus, Bolte, Mosman, Zimmerman, Poppens) who contribute. MBB we have to go elsewhere. When you can recruit 4 players who are valuable to the team from your state, you're going to have some success.

 

[bawbie]

Our WBB team competes at that level every year. I just don't understand why it is unrealistic to expect the same level of excellence from our men's program.

Who is saying that it is unrealistic to expect that?

I have been very critical of the McDermott haters on this site, and they do exist, but that has nothing to do with expectations. It has to do with giving up on a team 8 games in and basically rooting for our team to struggle so they can bash on McDermott some more.

 

[BigBake]

I'm more annoyed by posters who already were calling for Mac to be fired last year and their cries continue this year.

These same posters also think a new coach will magically turn things around in a year. If we've learned anything with the last three coaching searches it's this

1. Coaching changes kill any recruiting efforts and take years to reestablish.

2. We aren't seen as an attractive place to coach and struggle to get the attention of potential top tier candidates.

 

[cjclone]

Our WBB team competes at that level every year. I just don't understand why it is unrealistic to expect the same level of excellence from our men's program.

It is not as if our men's program has always been a doormat. It has been on a path to achieve exactly the kind of long term success those goals represent.

1. NCAA Tourney appearances 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2005.
2. We won conference titles in 2000 and 2001.
3. We won conference tournaments in 1996 and 2000.

There are a lot of gaps in appearances mentioned here and there was no cyclone fanatic for people to have meltdowns on. It is interesting Johnny Orrs first season was 80-81 and how long till we made the NCAA tournament? Expectations seem to revolve around the two seasons from 99-01. There is an ebb and flow to all things. Some tend to stay on top and others on the bottom. How many conference titles in the years preceding what is mentioned above as well as NCAA appearances? I know it is easier and more prestigious to make the NCAA now, but how about then? The university made a big push in athletics in the seventies and it showed up then and lasted for a while. Maybe we are on the edge of another push again?:smile:

 

[CycloneErik]

Who is saying that it is unrealistic to expect that?

I have been very critical of the McDermott haters on this site, and they do exist, but that has nothing to do with expectations. It has to do with giving up on a team 8 games in and basically rooting for our team to struggle so they can bash on McDermott some more.

Yup. I agree.
I'd love to be there every year. Growing up, I just assumed it would happen, and I want to be back there again.

As time goes on, I start seeing how difficult that really was, is, and will be, but it's still possible.

And I just hate seeing that people give up after any one thing. Usually, whenever our opponent scores their first basket, I turn to revkah and say, "I'm done. Game over," but that's exactly sincere.
Some of these guys post like they live for that, at least as far as being a fan is concerned.

 

[Tornado man]

I have been very critical of the McDermott haters on this site, and they do exist, but that has nothing to do with expectations. It has to do with giving up on a team 8 games in and basically rooting for our team to struggle so they can bash on McDermott some more.

So instead of just disagreeing with Gmac's critics (like me) and listing the reasons why, you instead use primitive, throw-away terms like "haters," as if you have superpowers and know the "real" motives.
You seem like a control freak to me.

 

[ChrisMWilliams]

You don't have to win the Big 12 Conference to make the NCAA tournament.

Obviously...but playing in the WCC and the Big 12 are two totally different things. It's not THAT hard to win the WCC. All that a team like Gonzaga has to do is make the dance a few times by playing in that junk league and bam, there's some big-time national exposure. Pull of an upset of two in the Dance and all of the sudden, you're a national program that kids from all over America want to attend. You're out west...that is appealing.

Comparing Iowa State to Gonzaga is an apples to oranges type of deal.

 

[Tornado man]

Obviously...but playing in the WCC and the Big 12 are two totally different things. It's not THAT hard to win the WCC. All that a team like Gonzaga has to do is make the dance a few times by playing in that junk league and bam, there's some big-time national exposure. Pull of an upset of two in the Dance and all of the sudden, you're a national program that kids from all over America want to attend. You're out west...that is appealing.

Coach Few has said several times that he's lost recruits because of the conference they're in, so I don't think the WCC is the kind of "advantage" to the Zags that you assume.
Gonzaga continually plays a very tough non-conference schedule, and even usually has a national TV game sometime in Feb. What's the difference between them playing the lower-level WCC teams and ISU playing their sub-150 RPI teams?
What strikes me as impressive about Gonzaga is player development. You can bet if they were in a high-profile conference, they's have a chance at recruiting a lot more talent.

 

[jdoggivjc]

I absolutely love Johnny Orr, and I love what he did for ISU basketball. The problem that lies within that, though, is a lot of people look back to that era and idealize it into something that it just wasn't. It's an era that fans think ISU basketball made these magical runs in the NCAA tournament and had successful season after successful season - that just wasn't the case. Of the 6 times Orr coached the Cyclones to the NCAA Tournament, 1986 was his highest seed - #7. That was also the one and only team he coached to the Sweet 16. Four other times his teams were seeded 10 or worse. Also, of the 6 times, four times we were knocked out in the first round. When you get right down to it, it's not the era of dominance that most Cyclone fans want to idealize it as - it was really an era of mediocrity. But most Cyclone fans are okay with that because of just how horrible Cyclone basketball was prior to Orr. It's just unfortunate that 25 years later the whole era is looked at as something it never was - Iowa State's golden age in basketball. If that truly was our golden age, that's pretty sad.

 

[St. Lou Clone]

Re: Hate? (yeah, I have a long reply. I only post once in a blue moon)

The expectations of our program are no longer NCAA tournament berths on a yearly basis?

Wow, we really have fallen on hard times.

I grew up watching Horny, Grayer, Lafester, and Victor.

I played with some of the guys on Justus' teams and watched Freddy, Loren, and Hurl light it up.

I went to the last big 8 championship games, and heard the chants of ISU as we left after sneaking down to lower seats. (I still have the championship t-shirt)

I watched as Fizer and Tinsley tore it up. And a double foul was called at a bad time.

Than, I moved away. The first few years were ok. But, when we fired Morgan I still think we lost something.

The fact of the matter is that when we fired Larry, our expectations were changed. We no longer thought of our team the way we used to. We started putting things off with the team. Still, Curtis and Will brought some thrills. Than we fired Wayne and Curt and Will left.

Listen, this site is in existence as much as anything else because Jeremy started hammering Wayne. And than started getting extra access. This has been a great site, but it's going to be this way. It was founded because of a couple of coaching searches and explanations about how bad Wayne and Dan Mac were for us. What do you expect to happen when G-Mac does less than Wayne did? Seriously, Wayne had us in the NIT and NCAA's. Why do you give Coach mac a pass on those when Wayne got hammered for his style of play?

My own personal evaluation (obviously not worth a ton), is that Mac's teams have typically gotten better over the course of the season. I also think that Mac at times, for some reason, doesn't let the "best" guys always play. I have heard it's because of the playbook, and that's why the team gets better, and players have to sit before they get full reign. I think I have played enough ball to know that "scheme" only wins when you expect to have less talent. If we are princeton at this point, sign me out.

Maybe that's why I haven't gotten full court during the season for a while.

Since I am a Cyclone fan, seriously I can't watch other teams more than in passing, I assume this year will get better. I think the talent on this team is the most Mac has had. And, I honestly expect a tourney appearance at the end.

And Chris, if you are going to continue spouting that NCAA tourney bids won't be a realistic goal on a yearly basis, :wideeyed: good luck with the site.

 

[St. Lou Clone]

I absolutely love Johnny Orr, and I love what he did for ISU basketball. The problem that lies within that, though, is a lot of people look back to that era and idealize it into something that it just wasn't. It's an era that fans think ISU basketball made these magical runs in the NCAA tournament and had successful season after successful season - that just wasn't the case. Of the 6 times Orr coached the Cyclones to the NCAA Tournament, 1986 was his highest seed - #7. That was also the one and only team he coached to the Sweet 16. Four other times his teams were seeded 10 or worse. Also, of the 6 times, four times we were knocked out in the first round. When you get right down to it, it's not the era of dominance that most Cyclone fans want to idealize it as - it was really an era of mediocrity. But most Cyclone fans are okay with that because of just how horrible Cyclone basketball was prior to Orr. It's just unfortunate that 25 years later the whole era is looked at as something it never was - Iowa State's golden age in basketball. If that truly was our golden age, that's pretty sad.

Ok, so you would take the last four years over any of those NCAA teams?

 

[jdoggivjc]

Ok, so you would take the last four years over any of those NCAA teams?

No - but I'm also not one of those guys that wants to name it the "Johnny Orr Floor" for an era that was not nearly as good as Cyclone fans remember it.

 

[ChrisMWilliams]

Re: Hate? (yeah, I have a long reply. I only post once in a blue moon)

And Chris, if you are going to continue spouting that NCAA tourney bids won't be a realistic goal on a yearly basis, :wideeyed: good luck with the site.

When did I once say that? Going to the dance absolutely should be expected. I'm just pointing out that Gonzaga and Iowa State are two totally different animals. I don't like that comparison. I never once wrote that fans shouldn't expect the best, because they should.

 

[Cyclonepride]

No - but I'm also not one of those guys that wants to name it the "Johnny Orr Floor" for an era that was not nearly as good as Cyclone fans remember it.

Gotta disagree with you jdog, at least in terms of excitement. Hilton was known nationwide as an impossible place to play, and it darn near was. Johnny will be remembered for putting us on the map, and giving us some great memories. His teams couldn't seem to win on the road to save their lives though. Johnny paved the way for us to get Floyd and LE, and Hilton's reputation is still riding on the coat tails of what he did.

 

[Dave19642006]

ahhhh Johnny Orr...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SfWN1AleyI]YouTube - Orr tells Vitale off[/ame]

 

[cyclonenum1]

I absolutely love Johnny Orr, and I love what he did for ISU basketball. The problem that lies within that, though, is a lot of people look back to that era and idealize it into something that it just wasn't. It's an era that fans think ISU basketball made these magical runs in the NCAA tournament and had successful season after successful season - that just wasn't the case. Of the 6 times Orr coached the Cyclones to the NCAA Tournament, 1986 was his highest seed - #7. That was also the one and only team he coached to the Sweet 16. Four other times his teams were seeded 10 or worse. Also, of the 6 times, four times we were knocked out in the first round. When you get right down to it, it's not the era of dominance that most Cyclone fans want to idealize it as - it was really an era of mediocrity. But most Cyclone fans are okay with that because of just how horrible Cyclone basketball was prior to Orr. It's just unfortunate that 25 years later the whole era is looked at as something it never was - Iowa State's golden age in basketball. If that truly was our golden age, that's pretty sad.

If you want to minimize the accomplishments of JO, then what in the world do you want to do with the results (or lackthereof) that we have seen under GM?

JO took us from the celler and total irrelevance to being a legitimate NCAA contender every year and being very relevant in what was generally considered one of, if not, the best conferences in the country during the 80s.

Nobody wants ISU to "lose so GM gets fired". I think we all want ISU to win, be in the NCAA regularly, and be a nationally relevant team. Unfortunately for us, it seems evident that GM is not moving the program in a positive direction.

We are in year 4 of his tenure and to think that expectations for our program are not lower now than the day GM was hired is absolutely ridiculous. Just go listen to or read the transcript of the press conference justifying his hiring at the time.

 

[cyclonenum1]

ahhhh Johnny Orr...
YouTube - Orr tells Vitale off

Evidence that JO made us nationally relevant. The only time you hear about ISU on national TV now is when they reference a certain candidate for National POY that plays at Syracuse and transferred from ISU.

 

[Ficklone02]

Obviously...but playing in the WCC and the Big 12 are two totally different things. It's not THAT hard to win the WCC. All that a team like Gonzaga has to do is make the dance a few times by playing in that junk league and bam, there's some big-time national exposure. Pull of an upset of two in the Dance and all of the sudden, you're a national program that kids from all over America want to attend. You're out west...that is appealing.

Comparing Iowa State to Gonzaga is an apples to oranges type of deal.

You really are oversimplifying things with this post. There are other teams in that league that have put together good years and made tournaments and gained some national exposure. But they haven't been able to sustain the same level of success as Gonzaga, which is to Gonzaga's credit. The reason for that is really good coaching on coach Few's part.

 

[Tedcyclone]

well by comments ive read expectations for mens basketball seem lowered... like its okay to be in 4th year and a bubble team.. thats not okay... or at least shouldnt be for basketball at ISU... according to JP this is our bread winner in ames. i dont want to eat this bread... sometimes i want to taste it, but almost always spit it back out... i want some nice multi grain bread that stays fresh for a month! we should/need to be top 5 in big 12 in basketball year in and year out. period...