When the skywalk was booming, the street level retail was terrible. I would much rather see a successful street level than skywalk retail...
Question about Downtown DSM
- Thread starter wartknight
- Start date
Not to mention the farmer's market on the weekends, and the various little concerts and events that go on down there. The I-Cubs don't hurt either.
The little boutique shops are all fine and good, but downtown needs a couple of "staple" stores to be a "legit" destination for most folks. To be honest, I wouldn't care that much if downtown didn't turn into a "shopping" destination. It's really not as well suited for that as the suburbs are anyway, IMO. I don't mind driving out there for the odd trip to scheels or Costco. No need to compete at that sort of thing when the 'burbs do it so well.
Downtown needs a grocery store, and maybe a "staple" store or two. If they sucked up the non-church/non-female barbershop quartet remnants of Southridge mall (i.e. a Target-like store/ Trader Joe's, a Younkers and a Sears) I think that would be about perfect. Cover most of the bases without having to leave the downtown area.
You are talking about downtown DES MOINES. Try like 20 or 30 years for this to happen. Des Moines is like a time warp compared to most cities.
Um, I dont' know how much you travel, but Court Ave is pretty awesome compared to most places I've been. It may not be OMG THE HOTTEST NEW THING, but I'd put the nightlife there up against any town the size of the Des Moines metro.
The daylife isn't that far behind. Much of the residential property hasn't been there all that long. As it picks up, so will demand for shopping and retail.
Compare it to any other city thats close to its size Des Moines is one, if not the best. Its nightlife and downtown as a whole is improving greatly.
Skywalk-This problem with the skywalks is a lot more than "They are stuck in the 80's". The problem is that about 90% of their business is from 11-1 on the weekdays and very few places can survive with 10 hours of business per week. Once 4pm hits everyone in the downtown is headed for the burbs. Even the business's downtown are shrinking, which hurts. Just some examples:
How many of you know that there is a very nice sports store in the Kaleidoscope that sells a lot of nice ISU gear?
When is the last time you thought to yourself Merle Hay, Valley West, Jordan Creek, or the Kaleidoscope?
When is the last time you've been in the skywalk on the weekend?
I work downtown and I don't even have a clue if the businesses are open on the weekend and if they are there is nothing that is worth driving downtown to see.
At least when there was a Younkers downtown there was a valid reason to come downtown. IMO the skywalk/downtown needs to have businesses that are totally different than what you get anywhere else in Des Moines and people are willing to drive to.
For example, in a dream scenario they would build an Ikea downtown. How about a store that sells farmer market type goods all week? Since we have thousands of nerds downtown, how about a DIT computer store downtown?
Just look at the non-food places that are in the kaleidoscope. Two old ladies clothing shops, a nail place, 2 card shops, 1 sporting goods place, Verizon, a kids toys place, Walgreens, 2 places that sell eye glasses, and a couple of dentists. Besides the sporting goods place, why would you come downtown to shop?
Maybe not politically correct but the city also needs to do something about the people hanging out by the bus street.
I think the likelihood of the dowtown/skywalk area ever begin very successful is very unlikely unless a lot more people move downtown.
I'm not talking about court avenue because that area is rocking.
How many of you know that there is a very nice sports store in the Kaleidoscope that sells a lot of nice ISU gear?
When is the last time you thought to yourself Merle Hay, Valley West, Jordan Creek, or the Kaleidoscope?
When is the last time you've been in the skywalk on the weekend?
I work downtown and I don't even have a clue if the businesses are open on the weekend and if they are there is nothing that is worth driving downtown to see.
At least when there was a Younkers downtown there was a valid reason to come downtown. IMO the skywalk/downtown needs to have businesses that are totally different than what you get anywhere else in Des Moines and people are willing to drive to.
For example, in a dream scenario they would build an Ikea downtown. How about a store that sells farmer market type goods all week? Since we have thousands of nerds downtown, how about a DIT computer store downtown?
Just look at the non-food places that are in the kaleidoscope. Two old ladies clothing shops, a nail place, 2 card shops, 1 sporting goods place, Verizon, a kids toys place, Walgreens, 2 places that sell eye glasses, and a couple of dentists. Besides the sporting goods place, why would you come downtown to shop?
Maybe not politically correct but the city also needs to do something about the people hanging out by the bus street.
I think the likelihood of the dowtown/skywalk area ever begin very successful is very unlikely unless a lot more people move downtown.
I'm not talking about court avenue because that area is rocking.
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Compare Des Moines to the Quad Cities, or even Omaha, which has the Old Market. Court Ave and the East Village hold their own and likely exceed comparably sized cities. For it's size, Des Moines has a lot going on, and that's what is so great about the city. It's not mega-sized and obnoxious, but has everything you need, plus some good bars and many, many excellent local restaurants...
Agreed.
or like I mentioned above, clear access points between the two could make both work. Right now your only entrance points are parking garages and random doors with no signage. (or through office buildings w/ limited access)
How about we tear down the barn instead of sinking more money into that dinosaur? How about the convention center?
Great points, all. I would say that if the downtown/skywalk were to become a better shopping option, it could service more than just the downtown people. There's decent parking downtown in DSM after the work day, and there are a LOT of people that live in the general area of downtown that would just as soon shop there. I'd much rather go downtown to shop than down to Southridge or out to the western burbs ( I live in SW DSM). An indoor farmer's market would be great, but so would a few restaraunt/bistro type places in the skywalk area. I don't think it would take THAT much to perk it all up. Marketing and advertising would go a long way.
I agree. I don't mind the retail going elsewhere.
Trader Joe's is unique enough that I think it might do well, especially since it would be really the only place to get groceries (aside from the Gateway Market place) downtown.
I think Liar's Club and Peoples are alright, but I'd HATE to see Court turn into a "club" district full of dbags every night.
There is an article in the Register today about the vote by the Board of Supervisors to renovate Vets. It would make it more convention friendly and the attachment to Wells Fargo and Hy-Vee Hall is apparently a large selling point.
Then the Convention Center would be renovated for additional courtroom space (which we desperately need). Seems win/win when you look at how they plan on financing it by re-financing existing debt with Wells Fargo and paying that for an additional few years.
Alas, to really tie it all together they need to demolish the Quality Inn north of Wells Fargo and build a newer, larger hotel. Maybe even attached to the arena.
The color scheme of the skywalk signs is the same red, teal, and gold design that looked hot in the early 90s. The mural sized pictures of balloons, airplanes, or gliders are still there too. The signs still point out places like Babes at The Brewery that aren't there anymore.
Its tough to get businesses to agree on anything beyond hiring private security to chase the bums out.
My favorite place is the below-ground food court. Its operating at less than half capacity, with a gyro place, Taste Spuds, and Chutney's Pizza and Indian Food.
The boom in loft apartments has slowed a little, The Equitable Building was recently foreclosed on after Knapp had a hard time finding any buyers for luxury condos.
Since the Gateway Projects have been completed, the areas around Downtown are much nicer.
Its tough to get businesses to agree on anything beyond hiring private security to chase the bums out.
My favorite place is the below-ground food court. Its operating at less than half capacity, with a gyro place, Taste Spuds, and Chutney's Pizza and Indian Food.
The boom in loft apartments has slowed a little, The Equitable Building was recently foreclosed on after Knapp had a hard time finding any buyers for luxury condos.
Since the Gateway Projects have been completed, the areas around Downtown are much nicer.
I'm not an expert but I believe this won't happen because: #1) IKEA's tend to locate in urban areas, not cornfields turned into shopping areas. #2 I don't think there is any city even close to Des Moines sized that has an IKEA store. They are located in much larger population centers.
I don't ever have a problem, but then again, I know not to come off I-235 on the ramp to Wells Fargo if it is anywhere near the time when most will be arriving. That is amateur hour. :wink:
There are so many ways into downtown, you need to look at other alternatives if you're routinely getting stuck in traffic when you arrive. It just simply isn't necessary.
Also on parking -- again, never an issue if you take a little time to figure out where the ramps are (or park on one of the side streets a few blocks away). It seems we end up parking down my Court Avenue (2 ramps on Court) most of the time since that is where we'll be either before or after the event we're attending. It is only a four or five block walk and you can take the skywalk if weather is bad.
To the comments about needing a grocery store downtown -- two just failed within the last 24 months, so obviously this is a preceived need. Not a real one. The Gateway Market seem to be succeeding in nearby Sherman Hill and the newest Dahls and one of the newest HyVee's are just minutes away. There just isn't enough people down there yet to support a grocery store.
A year-round extention to the Farmer's Market would be great though.
A year-round extention to the Farmer's Market would be great though.
