Is there anyone on our side who questions whether or not he’d take the job? I think most of us agree that he’d crawl to Ames if offered.
*** Official Iowa State Season Thread ***
- Thread starter CycloneRulzzz
- Start date
Is there anyone on our side who questions whether or not he’d take the job? I think most of us agree that he’d crawl to Ames if offered.
I have always doubted that team makes it much further than it did with Georges.
They were #25 on Bart Torvik that season. Their problem with UConn was the problem they had all year -- they could score at an elite level and in bunches, but they couldn't stop anybody and usually got killed on the boards. Like you said, that is how it played out with UConn, too. I don't see a way Georges would have been more efficient than the touches that went to Hogue, too, considering Hogue had easily the game of his life, yet they still fell short.
Even if they get past the Huskies, they still have to play...
(All rankings from Bart Torvik.)
#8 Michigan State
#3 Florida
#22 Kentucky
We probably would not have been favored in any of those three games. I doubt we could have replicated UConn's miracle run where they seemed to be hitting every hunk of junk they toss up.
We had a nice run in Kansas City, sure, but here is who we beat
#39 Kansas State
#11 Kansas (without Embidd)
#26 Baylor
We hadn't beaten anybody nearly as good as Michigan State or Florida that year save Michigan (#9).
The Fizer-Tinsley team had two games to go and would have been heavy favorites in both. The path to the national championship was paved in gold for them. The Georges' foot team, had they gotten past UConn, would have had three to go and wouldn't have been favored in any of the three save maybe Kentucky. Yes, that team probably had the best shot at a Final Four of any other since, but it was still a long shot compared to the 2000 squad.
Alison is probably my favorite player for the women of all-time.
She always had this look on her face like she was looking for an ass to kick.
On the SDSU side I think that is tougher than people give credit for. Yeah they had a solid foundation and a great player but he took over for a coach who had been there 20 years. That isn’t always an easy transition and it went about as smooth as it can go.
UNLV is just a weird school to analyze. Menzies was .500 there and .352 in conference. I’m not they were trending up though. I’m honestly not sure why he got fired. Either way finishing 2nd in your first year is pretty good.
Marvin Menzies got canned at UNLV after going 11-7 in the MWC in year three. After going 12-6 last year they are 5-7 in the league this year. I think you have to give him a pass this year, but history suggests he's going to be heading into next year with his seat a little bit warm.
Now I think it would be dumb of UNLV, but I think they have a combination of Tark era delusion mixed with Chris Beard "what might have been" butthurt. But I don't think TJ should feel overly comfortable at UNLV.
Does anyone look back at the '15 Big 12 tourney as evidence that team didn't underachieve? That is was a good season? That Fred is a good coach? Did Fred sandwich that season between a 9th and 10th place finish? The '19 team gets criticized IMO because so many people use it to defend Prohm as a coach, including JP. He pointed directly to it as why Prohm shouldn't receive criticism in his plea last season. It's a huge reason he got his extension, that naturally (and fairly) opens it up to more criticism. It's much more complicated than the final result, in a lot of ways, it foreshadowed where the program was headed. You guys act like no one ever criticized Fred, had he followed that season up with a 20 loss season and anther 10th place finish, would you be defending that season?
I think the biggest difference between how the seasons are perceived as time goes by, is that Fred wasn't around afterwards. I see it as the crescendo of all of the issues we knew existed under Fred finally coming to light. To that point, we heard about these things but they didn't really seep on to the floor. They got swept under the rug because he kept winning. Had he stuck around, there would have been more focus on those things and criticism of how that season played out. had he followed those up with two awful seasons, that season would have gotten more attention as this negative turning point for the program.
For Prohm, '19 was similar but he had to stick around and face the music. It could have gone either way, he could have shut down some of that criticism by winning but his struggles have only magnified how that season finished. Again, the extension that directly resulted from it isn't giving him any leeway. The concerns people had about how that season ended played out these last two seasons, the reality is, after the '15 season, the program was still strong enough to bounce back and prove that was a fluke. The '19 team seems more like the exception than the rule and the program wasn't strong enough to bounce back or to build off that season.
Menzies at UNLV in the MWC:
4-14
8-10
11-7
They were pretty much the definition of trending up. And his previous 9 seasons at NMSU they finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd three times each.
So the guy could clearly coach and was trending in the right direction, but they canned him anyway. And they didn't can him to hire TJ, they canned him to hire Beard.
If I'm TJ I am absolutely bolting if ISU comes calling.
That team was outstanding on the defensive glass. The best offensive asset of that team was being able to initiate offence from 3 of the 5 starters(Kane, Monte and Niang). The drop off in play from Niang to Edozie was... considerable.
...yet the computer ranking still had them #25 nationally.
Bart Torvik had the "hated" 2019 team #16.
Both were very good teams, mind you, but I think the legend of the Kane-Ejim team is somewhat overstated. On the flip side, the 2019 team is slightly underrated (at least from what I can tell of the median fan on here).
That spike looks illegal. Doubt it's getting over the net either. That volleyball looks weird too.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
You have to look at the 2019 in context also as to why I think it was a failure. Alot of us knew at the time how good they were but also knew after it played out that 9-9 was the absolute pinnacle of success that Prohm would have.
It would have been one thing if thst year was a building block to what would happen similar to Royces year. We all knew after the year that Lindell, Lard, and THT were gone and nobody even remotely close was coming in the pipelines for the next 2 years. You are seeing the repercussions right now of what happens when you suddenly gut an extremely talented team that could have used that year to springboard into better things. And then to top it off your recruiting falls off a cliff after that year.
I still think the advanced statistics struggle with our teams. Fred’s teams had more variability and could absolutely lose to some bad teams. They also could beat anybody. In basketball I think the more variable higher upside is better. It’s all about getting hot and beating teams. If the NCAA tournament was replace with the NBA playoffs that would change. I also think that is especially true for Iowa State and Hilton. We’ve built our culture on willing them to victory. When we were down 20 at half to Oklahoma I knew we would win that game. The advanced stats don’t understand that concept.
I will go to my grave with the belief that if George’s doesn’t get hurt we win the National title.
Yeah, what UNLV did hiring him is called settling. And if we take him now......so are we. And that's fine if your bar is set so low as anything but Steve Prohm. I would think we could do better because as you can see....people can "re-image" anything they want. And in a 3-4 years...14 wins will be defended as....."well, it's better than Prohm". So I hope JP nuts up, and pays up.
On that note, I've mentioned his name before, but does anyone else want JP to take a long look at Scott Nagy? Dude has a very impressive resume and overall record, and while he isn't young he's not too old either IMO.
Yeah it’s been personal with a lot of these folks for a long time. It’s like they think if they say something that isn’t completely derogatory, or minimize every single accomplishment, pollard might see it as some affirmation to bring him back.
Steve’s a good guy. His rep in the business isn’t nearly as bad as the cf brigade wants you to believe.
it didn’t work, the program is in a bad place right now, and it’s his responsibility. He will lose his job after the last game, and we will then see what the new coach can do.
I’ll root for Iowa State either way
