Maryland and Rutgers to Big 10?

[DistrictCyclone]

Its not watering down if it brings extra money to the table. If nothing else extra money helps your existing programs get better.

In theory, yes--but the nation's richest conference has also been one of its worst for over a decade now. And at the end of the day, the quality of football being played is the underlying factor driving everything...and that's where the Big Ten is and has been slipping.

 

[CyJack13]

In theory, yes--but the nation's richest conference has also been one of its worst for over a decade now. And at the end of the day, the quality of football being played is the underlying factor driving everything...and that's where the Big Ten is and has been slipping.

Not true, it's all about the money. If it was about the quality of football, how do you explain the B10 becoming more powerful as their on the field results continue to get worse?

 

[weR138]

Big 12 is going to get left behind and become a second rate conference

notsureifserious.jpg

 

[alarson]

In theory, yes--but the nation's richest conference has also been one of its worst for over a decade now. And at the end of the day, the quality of football being played is the underlying factor driving everything...and that's where the Big Ten is and has been slipping.

And the ultimate question would be where would they be without that money (look to the MAC for that answer.

And while the quality of football hasnt been good, its still generating plenty of ratings thanks to large alumni bases that keep growing.

 

[bellzisu]

Its not watering down if it brings extra money to the table. If nothing else extra money helps your existing programs get better.

Signed,
Indiana
Minnesota
Purdue
Illinois
Newly added
Iowa
And soon to be added
Maryland

You forgot....

Also.... Don't forget how great the SEC has been this year with extra baggage.. Texas A&M looks good but they have a lot of crappy teams at the bottom of the standings.

Kentucky
Auburn
Missouri
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Tennessee

 

[00clone]

I think the B10's thinking is more along the lines of Gordon Gecko's, greed is good.

Gordon? Is that that little guy's name? I thought his thinking was to save you money on car insurance.

 

[agrabes]

IMO, Delaney would not be doing this without know that in advanced.

I don't think Delany could know that in advance. Maybe he could approach the major carriers in the area, but he could not have taken a poll of the subscribers. They won't be giving away the BTN for free, channels will either be lost or subscribers will have to pay more to make up for it. If cable/satellite subscribers revolt because they have to pay extra for programming they don't want, the companies won't have any choice.

I'm not an east coaster, but it's hard for me to believe that the east coast is such an extreme hotbed of Big 10 fans. How many fans of the Big 10 live in say NYC? Tens of thousands? Maybe even hundreds of thousands. That's a lot when you look at it as potential fans to attend games, but when you look at it as a fraction of cable subscribers in NYC it's 10% or less. Not that it couldn't happen. Maybe they have a plan to make it palatable to the non-Big 10 fans.

 

[alarson]

You forgot....

And where would all those programs be without the big10 money? Indiana just built a new endzone a few years ago. Minnesota has a brand spanking new stadium. For the big 10 with population trends consistently moving south, that money is the difference between them and the MAC.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

Not true, A) it's all about the money. If it was about the quality of football, B) how do you explain the B10 becoming more powerful as their on the field results continue to get worse?

B) Define "more powerful", and I think their strategy of forcing the BTN down peoples' throats through basic cable subscriptions has a lot to do with it.

A) Money is just an indicator of value, which is derived from the number of people who watch, which is driven by how worthwhile something is to watch. Football is a product just like automobiles and computers, and it defies every economic principle for an increasingly inferior good to continually maintain (or increase) its relative value. As an example, look at the decline in Notre Dame's TV ratings (before this year). Right now, Big Ten teams have oodles of fans, but I don't think it's a bold prediction to assume that will continue relative to other teams as long as the Big Ten keeps failing to field crappy teams. Many people on this board use this same principle as a basis for predicting why ISU will eventually overtake Iowa in the state. In short, nothing is forever; the Big Ten might be the biggest TV player right now, but I would bet my life on that not being the case in the future as long as they continue to play inferior football.

 

[CyJack13]

I don't think Delany could know that in advance. Maybe he could approach the major carriers in the area, but he could not have taken a poll of the subscribers. They won't be giving away the BTN for free, channels will either be lost or subscribers will have to pay more to make up for it. If cable/satellite subscribers revolt because they have to pay extra for programming they don't want, the companies won't have any choice.

I'm not an east coaster, but it's hard for me to believe that the east coast is such an extreme hotbed of Big 10 fans. How many fans of the Big 10 live in say NYC? Tens of thousands? Maybe even hundreds of thousands. That's a lot when you look at it as potential fans to attend games, but when you look at it as a fraction of cable subscribers in NYC it's 10% or less. Not that it couldn't happen. Maybe they have a plan to make it palatable to the non-Big 10 fans.

I'm positive Delaney already knows this. It's not a coincidence that the news of Marlyand and Rutgers going to the B10 was leaked around the same time Fox Sports bought 49% of the Yes Network. Maybe there's not enough B10 fans to get the BTN put on a basic cable tier, but there are a hell of a lot of Yankees fans in the NYC area, and if BTN becomes a packaged deal with YES then it's hard to imagine cable companies not signing up for it. Delaney knows what he is doing.

 

[jbhtexas]

Its not watering down if it brings extra money to the table. If nothing else extra money helps your existing programs get better.

Here's the thing though...up until very recently, the Big Ten has been the money leader, and yet they seem to be slipping behind in the quality of their football. I think they have a recruiting footprint problem as much as they do a money problem.

I'm not surprised to see the Big Ten expand, and I'm not surprised that it was an ACC team. I just thought it might be UNC first to get the recruiting footprint opened a little further south.

 

[cytown]

Here's the thing though...up until very recently, the Big Ten has been the money leader, and yet they seem to be slipping behind in the quality of their football. I think they have a recruiting footprint problem as much as they do a money problem.

I'm not surprised to see the Big Ten expand, and I'm not surprised that it was an ACC team. I just thought it might be UNC first to get the recruiting footprint opened a little further south.

Yep. More and more talent coming out of the south. This hurts the big ten.

 

[Gonzo]

Because some old dinosaur conference just further watered itself down with two crappy schools? We're the cream of the cream; quality > quantity.

Obviously not a traditional national power, but Rutgers is currently ranked higher than all but three teams from the Big 12 and is less than a year out from handling ISU in NYC.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

And the ultimate question would be where would they be without that money (look to the MAC for that answer.

And while the quality of football hasnt been good, its still generating plenty of ratings thanks to large alumni bases that keep growing.

Plenty of schools without the Big Ten's financial resources have fielded quality teams in the past several years, even from the MAC. That list is long.

 

[alarson]

Here's the thing though...up until very recently, the Big Ten has been the money leader, and yet they seem to be slipping behind in the quality of their football. I think they have a recruiting footprint problem as much as they do a money problem.

I'm not surprised to see the Big Ten expand, and I'm not surprised that it was an ACC team. I just thought it might be UNC first to get the recruiting footprint opened a little further south.

I'll agree on all of those points. The money can help offset the recruiting footprint problems, but yeah, if i were the big 10 i'd be wanting to move south. I bet thats their next move towards 16. If they want to keep contiguous states, they now can grab VA and then NC and all are still connected.

 

[alarson]

Plenty of schools without the Big Ten's financial resources have fielded quality teams in the past several years, even from the MAC. That list is long.

Those are mostly the exception to the rule. By and large money correlates extremely highly to success.

 

[Gonzo]

Here's the thing though...up until very recently, the Big Ten has been the money leader, and yet they seem to be slipping behind in the quality of their football. I think they have a recruiting footprint problem as much as they do a money problem.

I'm not surprised to see the Big Ten expand, and I'm not surprised that it was an ACC team. I just thought it might be UNC first to get the recruiting footprint opened a little further south.

I'm sure the Big 10 would have loved to add UNC.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

Here's the thing though...up until very recently, the Big Ten has been the money leader, and yet they seem to be slipping behind in the quality of their football. I think they have a recruiting footprint problem as much as they do a money problem.

I'm not surprised to see the Big Ten expand, and I'm not surprised that it was an ACC team. I just thought it might be UNC first to get the recruiting footprint opened a little further south.

And a geography problem in general, not just for recruiting; the heart of Big Ten country is the rust belt, where every state has been lagging behind the country as a whole in population growth (or even declining). That doesn't bode well for viewership in the long-term, which explains why they want to latch on to the still-growing East Coast markets.

I fully agree that if they expand further, it'll be to the southeast (UNC, Virginia, etc.).

 

[alarson]

I fully agree that if they expand further, it'll be to the southeast (UNC, Virginia, etc.).

I'm glad we could all come to agreement on something today. :smile:

 

[CyJack13]

B) Define "more powerful", and I think their strategy of forcing the BTN down peoples' throats through basic cable subscriptions has a lot to do with it.

A) Money is just an indicator of value, which is derived from the number of people who watch, which is driven by how worthwhile something is to watch. Football is a product just like automobiles and computers, and it defies every economic principle for an increasingly inferior good to continually maintain (or increase) its relative value. As an example, look at the decline in Notre Dame's TV ratings (before this year). Right now, Big Ten teams have oodles of fans, but I don't think it's a bold prediction to assume that will continue relative to other teams as long as the Big Ten keeps failing to field crappy teams. Many people on this board use this same principle as a basis for predicting why ISU will eventually overtake Iowa in the state. In short, nothing is forever; the Big Ten might be the biggest TV player right now, but I would bet my life on that not being the case in the future as long as they continue to play inferior football.

Most powerful as in being the conference that's basically pulling the strings in all the realignment craziness. They make a move and the other conferences have to react to it. More powerful as in being the conference that teams are throwing themselves at to join.

Also, the BTN isn't driven by its ratings, which are actually quite low, it's driven by the subscriber fees they are able to generate because they have been able to get it included on the basic sports tier in large markets due to their extremely large alumni bases. These alumni bases aren't going away even if their football continues to struggle.