How Long Before Our (CF) Wrestling Experts Get Worried?

captain7cf

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KJ is a great guy and passionate guy, but has no college coaching experience and didnt surround himself with any really either... We had Bono but sounds like KJ ran him off... Then a sad thing is we couldnt get anyone to come after Bono left.. I think we offered the job to at least 5 people and got turned down from what I heard... That is not a good sign.. We are a traditional power and couldnt attract a top flight young coach...

No one on the staff has the name to draw your top Iowa kids really... This Iowa high school class has alot of good wrestlers and we weren't even able to get the second tier kids.. They were choosing IA then UNI... going to be a long road ahead...
 

Judoka

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So I have a question. I know a couple guys who pay attention to wrestling and know more than I know but I don't really trust their opinions. They have said that it looks like KJ is a better wrestling teacher and motivator but has just been hamstrung by personnel. Is this true or completely idiotic?

I think that's very true. For one thing, look at his background, he's an Olympic Gold medalist whose prior job was coaching the national team for Freestyle. He has lots of experiencing bringing the best out of people. If you look at how guys like Varner and Zabriskie developed last year, and how Reader has done this year, you can see that he has the ability to take great guys and make them better. Keep in mind that Reader did not enter the season ranked number one.

As far as personnel, we graduated a very, very, very good senior class last year. And not only that, but most of the guys who would have been our redshirt freshman class this year aren't here because they either left with Cael or went another route because KJ became the coach pretty late in the recruiting process. Cael didn't actively screw ISU over like Brands did to Virginia Tech, but the timing of his departure still basically meant we had a lost year of recruiting. You see the effects of that this year when we have guys tossed into the lineup who would have been backups to that freshman class. Then you add into that the loss of Long (and Long's problems were off the mat, and to be honest he probably needed to get out of Iowa to get them fixed), and we're staring down a number of holes in our lineup. You see the effects of that this year really badly on nights like tonight.

Plus Drouin, a solid transfer at 141 who was brought in to help mitigate the loss of that recruiting class, is out with a concussion, and due to those defections our backup is redshirting and ISU almost never pulls a kid's redshirt.

This has put Jackson in a bad spot, but if you look at how he has developed the kids he does have, you see that most of them are overperforming where they were expected to be when the season started. The exceptions to that are Weatherman who has pretty much been a bust (only a freshman though, so hopefully he'll be a stud next year, but hasn't been able to break through this year, to early to write him off for good), Carr who has struggled with cutting down to 149 after being 157 the past two years (I wouldn't be suprised to see him at 157 on Sunday, with Mayfield at 149), and Ward who is coming off knee surgery over Christmas.

This is a down year, no question, but even in a down year we're still a top twenty team, and I honestly think we have a great shot of being top ten in March. Our lineup holes just make dual meets look much more lopsided than they actually are.

Basically, Jackson's first real recruiting class is redshirting right now. So we don't know if he'll be able to recruit us back to the top. But he's overachieving with the guys in the room this year.

I'd say the biggest black mark against him is the departure of Bono, but I assume Bono probably was hoping to have Jackson's job after Cael left, so I'm sure there was tension there due to that.
 
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Judoka

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I know very little about wrestling but seeing that kid lay motionless on the floor for that long was scary...

Agreed. It happens occasionally in Judo so refs are taught to watch for the signs of somebody going out and be ready to stop the match. He'll have a headache tomorrow but be fine.
 

CydeOut

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I'm worried that Weatherman may be a colossal bust. Getting pinned in 1:13 to the #12 wrestler isn't good.
 

cycloneML

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B10 is going to dominate wrestling for the forseeable future. It's a shame, but it's also a fact


does the big 10 network help the big ten schools recruit these kids? seems to be the top recruits love the idea of being on tv.
 

buf87

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Our lack of depth and veterans are hurting us right now? Jones and Cash were not mean't to be D1 starters as true frosh and redshirt frosh. Depth at 141 for Drouin hurts (Yea we need Dalton). Carr is beat mentally right now; Senior having weight issues. Mayfield is a good 149 pound backup. Weatherman is just not ready; I'm surprised. I don't know if he should be 149 or just having trouble adjusting. Sorenson was a walkon and now a potential AA (didn't show it last night tho), but he'll be back. Reader is an animal always focused (Big test against Lewnes next week). We need to figure out where Moreno (FR), Spangler(RSO) and Sorenson(RJR) go next year, they need to split up. Don't know where besides 165 & 174. Shafer is improving from the 1st match against Old Dominion. Ward is painful and boring to watch, some is the knee surgery over break, some is Ward. Heard Gadsen is going to 197 next year; so who know who starts. Hard to sit a RSR in Ward. Simonson needs muscle and he hates to lift. Next year Finch will fill 125, 133 and 141, I assume are Cash and Goettl. Don't think Goettl will make big waves next year. Cozart and Mayfield will battle 149 and 157 Weatherman. We've added some depth at lower weights, but need a lot more. Hard to replace Reader and a healthy Drouin, but we only had Drouin this year. In 2 years, if we are still forfeiting matches and getting Teched, I'll be more worried, now just frustrated with last night.:confused:
 

heyguy85

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KJ is a great guy and passionate guy, but has no college coaching experience and didnt surround himself with any really either... We had Bono but sounds like KJ ran him off... Then a sad thing is we couldnt get anyone to come after Bono left.. I think we offered the job to at least 5 people and got turned down from what I heard... That is not a good sign.. We are a traditional power and couldnt attract a top flight young coach...

No one on the staff has the name to draw your top Iowa kids really... This Iowa high school class has alot of good wrestlers and we weren't even able to get the second tier kids.. They were choosing IA then UNI... going to be a long road ahead...

Bono was on a power trip and KJ didn't want him in there. Voelker is a great assistant. Think about it this way. If you're a parent of a high school kid and he is being recruited to wrestle, is it a bad thing that one of the assistants taking care of your son is someone as moral as Voelker? Do you feel better sending him to hang out with poachers in Iowa City? What hurt the program was losing Hartung. He is an excellent coach but didn't like being a college assistant.
Andrew Long and Tyler Clark would be huge in the lineup. Those are two guys that were counted on 2 years ago so it wasn't realistic to recruit someone to fill the 2 lower weights. Most meets we could count on them for 3 points each, that's 6 more points for the good guys and 6 less for the opponents.
If next year doesn't go well, I will start to worry.
 

buf87

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I think that's very true. For one thing, look at his background, he's an Olympic Gold medalist whose prior job was coaching the national team for Freestyle. He has lots of experiencing bringing the best out of people. If you look at how guys like Varner and Zabriskie developed last year, and how Reader has done this year, you can see that he has the ability to take great guys and make them better. Keep in mind that Reader did not enter the season ranked number one.

As far as personnel, we graduated a very, very, very good senior class last year. And not only that, but most of the guys who would have been our redshirt freshman class this year aren't here because they either left with Cael or went another route because KJ became the coach pretty late in the recruiting process. Cael didn't actively screw ISU over like Brands did to Virginia Tech, but the timing of his departure still basically meant we had a lost year of recruiting. You see the effects of that this year when we have guys tossed into the lineup who would have been backups to that freshman class. Then you add into that the loss of Long (and Long's problems were off the mat, and to be honest he probably needed to get out of Iowa to get them fixed), and we're staring down a number of holes in our lineup. You see the effects of that this year really badly on nights like tonight.

Plus Drouin, a solid transfer at 141 who was brought in to help mitigate the loss of that recruiting class, is out with a concussion, and due to those defections our backup is redshirting and ISU almost never pulls a kid's redshirt.

This has put Jackson in a bad spot, but if you look at how he has developed the kids he does have, you see that most of them are overperforming where they were expected to be when the season started. The exceptions to that are Weatherman who has pretty much been a bust (only a freshman though, so hopefully he'll be a stud next year, but hasn't been able to break through this year, to early to write him off for good), Carr who has struggled with cutting down to 149 after being 157 the past two years (I wouldn't be suprised to see him at 157 on Sunday, with Mayfield at 149), and Ward who is coming off knee surgery over Christmas.

This is a down year, no question, but even in a down year we're still a top twenty team, and I honestly think we have a great shot of being top ten in March. Our lineup holes just make dual meets look much more lopsided than they actually are.

Basically, Jackson's first real recruiting class is redshirting right now. So we don't know if he'll be able to recruit us back to the top. But he's overachieving with the guys in the room this year.

I'd say the biggest black mark against him is the departure of Bono, but I assume Bono probably was hoping to have Jackson's job after Cael left, so I'm sure there was tension there due to that.

If I have 1 concern with KJ; it would be how much money is invested in Jones (4th in 3A last year), Voelker, England, Hunter, Hawes. These guys are development projects that you hope will be ready for D1 as RJr or RSr. The JUCO guys as backups. We need more Finch, Moreno, Cozart that will be ready as RFr. I know it doesn't always go as plan and maybe KJ didn't have the high school connections developed yet. But the money has to go to the best, 9.9 scholarships is not much to work with.
 

cygrads

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Those six losses were to teams ranked 10th, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 3rd, and 6th. With Drouin injured for most of them.

American is ranked 9th by Intermat, and Virginia Tech, who we also own a dual win over, is ranked 3rd by the USA Today poll.

We do not have a single loss this season to a team that is not ranked in the top ten, and have two wins over top ten teams.

Our remaining schedule is stacked, including another top ten team on Sunday and a trip to visit the #1 team in a few weeks. We probably will lose these duals, and depending on how we match up we might lose them badly. Unlike Iowa we are actually running towards the best competition possible to get our guys ready for March. At the end of the year we'll probably be at around .500 for duals, but be very well prepared for the NCAAs. Our individuals are performing at or above expectations with the exception of Weatherman. We just graduated the best senior class we've ever had while also losing the recruiting class that was supposed to replace them when Cael went to Penn State.

Are we an elite team this year? No. But are we still a top tier team even with all these roadblocks? Yes. ISU wrestling is heading the right direction right now.

For us fringe fans the concerning part is ISU used to be a reload not rebuild program and what concerns me is the bolded part above and where did we finish with that best sr class ever (2nd or 3rd)? I hope wrestling the best competition during the season and losing doesn't destroy our confidence and this strategy works and we finish in the top 5. I know a guy who wrestled for ISU many years ago and when I asked about the hiring of KJ he was not impressed - but hoped for the best.
 

buf87

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For us fringe fans the concerning part is ISU used to be a reload not rebuild program and what concerns me is the bolded part above and where did we finish with that best sr class ever (2nd or 3rd)? I hope wrestling the best competition during the season and losing doesn't destroy our confidence and this strategy works and we finish in the top 5. I know a guy who wrestled for ISU many years ago and when I asked about the hiring of KJ he was not impressed - but hoped for the best.

We don't have a top 5 team this year. Hopefully A NC in Reader and 2 AA in Drouin and Sorenson and 2 additional Qualifers in Ward and Simonson. I agree with confidence, because we have Ok State tommorrow and Cornell next week.
 

wxman1

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I was there last night and we just got manhandled. I don't know much about wrestling but guys looked like they could fall asleep on the mat in the first period, there was no intensity, no enthusiasm, no will, and no energy at all. Rip me all you want but the gymnastics was more exciting than the wrestling last night.

That being said that was downright scary when our last guy went limp. When they escorted him out he looked like he had no idea what was going on.
 

buf87

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I was there last night and we just got manhandled. I don't know much about wrestling but guys looked like they could fall asleep on the mat in the first period, there was no intensity, no enthusiasm, no will, and no energy at all. Rip me all you want but the gymnastics was more exciting than the wrestling last night.

That being said that was downright scary when our last guy went limp. When they escorted him out he looked like he had no idea what was going on.

I was there last night also and yes we had no energy and looked flat. Reader, Jones and Cash were the only ones that had any energy. Sorenson really surprised me how flat he was for a big match. I don't mind if they lose and wrestle, but last night they just lost. Not typical for this team to be that flat. Maybe its the brutal schedule and not used to being the underdog.
 

CyBobby

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Did you go to the meet tonight? Just wondering.

It was ugly.

I'll admit that I don't go to many and am not involved in wrestling at all, but I have been to several meets a year in this my 4th year at school, and I could not even sit through this one.


I'm pretty much like you same opinion...also its "Only Wrestling" so losing is a lot easier to take than in football and basketball....sports that actually make money.


I thought that Jim Gibbons was a pretty lame coach, and he even won a national championship.

Like I said "its only wrestling'....NO Big Deal.
 

CYVADER

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if our football team lost 70% of it's starters along with 30% of its backups that probably would have stepped in to start (jensen, beard, thompson), what would your expectations be?

that's what this team is up against. couple that with losing a good portion of a recruiting class that switched to psu, and this is what you get. next year is a must top 10 finish, or else i will start to be concerned. this year i went in with the same feeling i did for our basketball team-0 expectations.
 

CycoCyclone

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if our football team lost 70% of it's starters along with 30% of its backups that probably would have stepped in to start (jensen, beard, thompson), what would your expectations be?

that's what this team is up against. couple that with losing a good portion of a recruiting class that switched to psu, and this is what you get. next year is a must top 10 finish, or else i will start to be concerned. this year i went in with the same feeling i did for our basketball team-0 expectations.

Exactly, well said.

you cannot lose the caliber of wrestlers he did and put together a top 10 squad.
 

Cychl82

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is it just me or does some of the over defensive reactions based on one fanatics simple question coming from the fact we used to be one of these top 10 teams to beat and also thats why less knowledgeable on the program are wondering whats going on.....i honestly dont follow our wrestling program much either and thats why before this post i also would have wondered several things as to the state of the wrestling program
 

CYVADER

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i think it's easy to question where we are right now to someone who doesn't follow the sport/our situation, but anyone who knows how many guys are gone from 1 year ago and the guys who left with cael knows that is why we are where we are
 

Judoka

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That being said that was downright scary when our last guy went limp. When they escorted him out he looked like he had no idea what was going on.

When somebody gets choked out they are always confused for a little bit. We had a guy go out once at Iowa Games a few years ago (only for a few seconds) and when he came to he said his first thought was he was worried he'd was running late and missed the tournament. Last year I had a guy go out on me in practice and he was convinced he was at his ex-girlfriend's place when he came back a few seconds later. Another time I was almost choked out and when I stood up was convinced I was wearing a turban for a few seconds (it was the blood running back to my head)

Trent will have a headache today, but other than that won't be at all worse for wear. It was obviously a blood choke, not a trachea strangle, which is why the ref didn't see it and Weatherman probably didn't even know it was there until he went out. A good blood choke during a grappling match can put a guy out in just a few seconds, and that's what happened here. Just since it is wrestling rather than Judo or BJJ, it wasn't an intentional choke.

is it just me or does some of the over defensive reactions based on one fanatics simple question coming from the fact we used to be one of these top 10 teams to beat and also thats why less knowledgeable on the program are wondering whats going on.....i honestly dont follow our wrestling program much either and thats why before this post i also would have wondered several things as to the state of the wrestling program

Because it's a question that gets posted after every match by somebody who happened to see the score. Even though we're doing better than we were expected to in the pre-season, and our kids are constantly improving. So having to constantly point out that the sky isn't falling and Jackson doesn't have much to work with this year due to the graduations and departure of Cael gets annoying. Though really it's not the innocent questions from people that aren't paying attention that bother me, it's the people who really do believe that the sky is falling rather than looking at the reality of the situation.

For the guy asking why we didn't win it all with such a great senior class last year... Galick got hurt and Cyler transfered with Cael. We still would have won it with the points from either of those two, but couldn't take the loss of two AA level guys and still take first.
 
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