*** Official #8 IOWA STATE vs #5 Houston Game(Day) Thread ***

[CySmurf]

Bilas actually nailed it on the head in the telecast. That was good clean defense and if they call that a “cylinder” foul, then every good defensive effort could be called. it also invites the offensive player to do what happened there, which is dangerous. Of course, this will probably receive a "dumb" comment from isuno1fan.

 

[NorthCyd]

He has to allow him room to move. Heise's lower body was fine, but his head and chest were too close. If cryer stepped forward to make contact, that would have been a foul on him, but he didn't View attachment 143767

It may be correct by a strict interpretation of the rules, but anyone who watches college basketball knows it is never called that way, so it's an officiating problem either way you slice it.

 

[AllInForISU]

It may be correct by a strict interpretation of the rules, but anyone who watches college basketball knows it is never called that way, so it's an officiating problem either way you slice it.

I know it's not and I don't want it to be. But once they made the decision to go to the monitor, it was over.

 

[HFCS]

It may be correct by a strict interpretation of the rules, but anyone who watches college basketball knows it is never called that way, so it's an officiating problem either way you slice it.

I thought live maybe that was the case...tough break but it's the rules, trying to make myself feel better...but looking at the replay it was a 100% blown call. There's no defense in basketball if that's a foul on Heise and if he's not allowed that space Houston should have had to forfeit the game before half for lack of available players.

 

[Cloned4Life]

I appear to have "AllinForISU" on my Ignore list, looks like I made a good choice.

Same. I unignored for a second, and regret it.

 

[HFCS]

When did Heise move?

He thinks defenders have to stand flat footed at all times. Seriously.

 

[CYDJ]

You want to talk about whining? Pot meet kettle. Holy cow.

The calls you usually get upset about are called pretty consistently both was. There were one or two games where I specifically thought it got out of control, but the officials arent robots. They will miss one or 2 generally. But overall they make

The refs did not lose this game. a 9 minute scoring drought in the first half did this. Missing 2 starters did this. They lost to a team that was better TODAY because of unforeseen circumstances. Blaming officials is so weak.

Would you just get real? DID I SAY THE REFS LOST US THE GAME? ANSWER ME THAT?

What I said is the officials missed calls, DID I SAY THEY WERE ALL AGAINST US?

If you read any of my other post, you would see that I said it was being two players short. The officials did not help us.

I also already asked you if you would allow the kinds of forehand shivers that provided enough room to hit 2) 3s and 1) 2 down the stretch. Did you, would you? You are able to come up with the rules pretty effectively. What is the rule on that?

You also haven't answered my hypothetical on the cylinder with with the offensive player moving into the defensive player. I'd like to know what you would call in that situation. Does the D have the right to their space on the floor like the O does? Please provide your interpretation here.

Defend them all you want, they messd up and we have the right to point them out.

And BTW, the whining things was a poke towards you. I knew you'd eventually come in with your complaint about ref whiners, so I wanted to preempt you. Sorry, that wasn't very nice.

Here is my point. This game is way past being callable from the floor. We need dozens of cameras, AI and crowd sourcing to help fix the problem. Coaches talking to officials needs to be a 2 shot with ball inhand T and we need a way to keep the peace on the floor. Other than that. Bet technology involved to make it better.

 

[AllInForISU]

When did Heise move?

It was a little shift immediately after the pivot. Not much and not a problem, until Cryer made that one specific move.

 

[Die4Cy]

I think his playing hurt contributed to his increase in turnovers the past three or four weeks.

Keshon has 35 turnovers the last 8 games (4.4/game) The eight games before that, only 21 (2.6/game.) Those were all Big 12 games except one. The ten games prior to that he played in, only 28 (2.8 a game.) Keshon was actually SLIGHTLY BETTER in the first half of the Big 12 season taking care of the ball than he was against all the tomato cans at home in Hilton.

Just saying, it's affected his play.

 

[atlantacyclone]

Seems like the game was close enough where officiating made a difference …. They definitely had a home court advantage…

 

[CYDJ]

Agreed. Just saying ISU had their chances down 1 with 8 minutes left and down 2 with 4 minutes left. From that point forward, Houston took control of the game. So I can't say the refs cost us the game.

Yeah, eventually Houston was gong to take over and they did by making some very tough shots. I was impressed we were able to keep it within 30. the officials did not lose the game for us. They definitely made it harder to win though. I have now watched 3 separate push offs that I CAN NOT believe were not called immediately. If that is what is within the rules now, we need to be practicing that much more diligently.

 

[madguy30]

Keshon has 35 turnovers the last 8 games (4.4/game) The eight games before that, only 21 (2.6/game.) Those were all Big 12 games except one. The ten games prior to that he played in, only 28 (2.8 a game.)

Just saying, it's affected his play.

And even in moments where there's no pain, you're thinking about the injury and that can throw everything else off.

 

[CycloneVet]

Did anyone else notice Dishon cut his hair?

 

[fcclone]

When did Heise move?

Heise actually moved back a little, creating even more space before getting elbowed to the face. That is why it was just a terrible call.

 

[pulse]

So the next game is Tuesday. 3 more days to talk about the cylinder.

 

[Cloned4Life]

He thinks defenders have to stand flat footed at all times. Seriously.

Well, technically, the feet are inconsequential. Heise’s relative position literally is 100% static through the entire movement of Cryer. The feet moving 1 millimeter - by rule - means nothing. Heise had legal position and maintained legal position, as the offender made an aggressive sweeping movement with his elbows out. Which is why the ref correctly called this an offensive foul.

Calling a cylinder foul after reviewing from the monitor is subtle but it’s a pretty blatant/purposeful decision made there. And as others have pointed out - they COULD have called that same “thing” 20 times throughout the game, on both Iowa State and Houston. But they chose that specific instance at that specific point of the game to make this very game-impacting decision.

 

[bosco]

 

[AllInForISU]

Would you just get real? DID I SAY THE REFS LOST US THE GAME? ANSWER ME THAT?

What I said is the officials missed calls, DID I SAY THEY WERE ALL AGAINST US?

If you read any of my other post, you would see that I said it was being two players short. The officials did not help us.

I also already asked you if you would allow the kinds of forehand shivers that provided enough room to hit 2) 3s and 1) 2 down the stretch. Did you, would you? You are able to come up with the rules pretty effectively. What is the rule on that?

You also haven't answered my hypothetical on the cylinder with with the offensive player moving into the defensive player. I'd like to know what you would call in that situation. Does the D have the right to their space on the floor like the O does? Please provide your interpretation here.

Defend them all you want, they messd up and we have the right to point them out.

And BTW, the whining things was a poke towards you. I knew you'd eventually come in with your complaint about ref whiners, so I wanted to preempt you. Sorry, that wasn't very nice.

Here is my point. This game is way past being callable from the floor. We need dozens of cameras, AI and crowd sourcing to help fix the problem. Coaches talking to officials needs to be a 2 shot with ball inhand T and we need a way to keep the peace on the floor. Other than that. Bet technology involved to make it better.

I thought the Tamin one specifically was a foul. I don't recall the other 2 you are referring to.

That is what creates the cylinder foul. If the defender is in the cylinder, he is not in a legal guarding position, so any illegal contact should be a defensive foul.

I agree completely. Though, AI is still a long way off, and even when it is viable, will still be years away from implementation due to the pushback it will receive.

 

[HFCS]

Heise actually moved back a little, creating even more space before getting elbowed to the face. That is why it was just a terrible call.

Mr Contrarian says on ball defenders cannot shuffle feet.

Tell me you’ve never played without telling me. They’d constantly be falling on their rears and games would be 180-170.

 

[Texbudman]

I'm not talking about a computer assessment. I'm talking about being able to run an offense and get a bucket that isn't a one on one, step back three. On a neutral court, season in the line, those are a lot tougher. They will play plenty of teams that match them defensively in the tournament.

One on one step back threes still count. They may look like lucky shots but they require a lot of skill.