The missiles that the Russians have can reach up to 72,000 feet in altitude. A commercial airliner at 33,000 feet would be well within range for them.
Another Malaysia airlines crash?
- Thread starter brianhos
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The missiles that the Russians have can reach up to 72,000 feet in altitude. A commercial airliner at 33,000 feet would be well within range for them.
Guess the point I was making was that a 777 is a big *** plane that is moving relatively slow for any weapons system designed to shoot down airplanes. If it was at 10K or 33K feet, it wouldn't have to be overly high tech to hit that size plane.
I was watching NBC with Gen McCaffrey and he reiterated several times that he felt it highly unlikely that a trained, controlled Russian crew would make such a mistake. Jim Mickleiupoaeryah4u5qwefbsadb at the Pentagon said he sources there felt the same. Although both acknowledged repeatedly that it was entirely possible.
And there were the early reports of the separatists claiming responsibility, then withdrawing it once it came out it was a commercial flight, not a cargo plane. That's where my money is. They were espousing that they captured some Ukranian SAM sites a few weeks ago. There were even pics on social media sites showing them in towns, under camo, near the town where the plane went down.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-crash-missile/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Ryan concludes then that if the plane really was shot down, a professional military force -- either on purpose or by accident -- was responsible.
Ryan concludes then that if the plane really was shot down, a professional military force -- either on purpose or by accident -- was responsible.
The 10K you read was 10K meters.
The targeting system is harder than you think it'd be, but the limiter for small groups is usually getting something to 30,000 ft.
The Russians may be more advanced than most nations, but they are really a paper tiger (conventionally speaking) that was pumped up to keep defense spending high during the Cold War.
I know you're just reporting what you heard, but Russia Today makes Fox and MSNBC look like the epitome of nonbiased journalism.
There had been several Ukrainian military planes shot down over the last couple of weeks. Could possibly have been mistaken for a large military transport plane. They've said on tv that this particular route was very heavily traveled by multiple commercial airlines. But they've always believed that at 6 miles up, they were out of harm's way.
There seems to be conflicting information on these rebel fighters. Some claim they do have access to these high tech surface to air missiles and some claim they don't. There is no doubt that Putin is making sure that these fighters are well armed so it wouldn't be a shock at all to find out that Russia did supply them with these weapons.
I don't know if I buy the fact that these allegedly untrained... rag tag bunch of rebel fighters are in fact what they are portrayed to be. It isn't like Russian special forces with the training and expertise to use these sophisticated weapons couldn't be fighting right alongside these rebel fighters. What... because they don't have on a uniform or identification means they aren't highly trained forces? People can't be that naïve can they? In the early days of the Crimea crisis entire military bases were being taken control of by armed men with no identification on them or their vehicles. I'm sure it was just the "locals" with pro-Russian ties and not Russian military forces...
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I doubt that. More likely, the agreement is that if I am at this coordinate, elevation, and this time and day, then I am an unarmed civilian plane.
I'm not sure size of the plane would make hitting something that is 5 or 6 miles in the air moving at several hundred miles per hour any easier to him.
It would be easier than hitting say a military jet going Mach 1 with counter-measures, threat warning radar, etc, etc.
My only point was, probably the easiest thing to shoot down in the entire world would be a massive commercial jetliner on a constant course, at a constant airspeed, with no warning.
But hey, you know more about shooting down a plane than me Vladimir.
There seems to be conflicting information on these rebel fighters. Some claim they do have access to these high tech surface to air missiles and some claim they don't. There is no doubt that Putin is making sure that these fighters are well armed so it wouldn't be a shock at all to find out that Russia did supply them with these weapons.
I don't know if I buy the fact that these allegedly untrained... rag tag bunch of rebel fighters are in fact what they are portrayed to be. It isn't like Russian special forces with the training and expertise to use these sophisticated weapons couldn't be fighting right alongside these rebel fighters. What... because they don't have on a uniform or identification means they aren't highly trained forces? People can't be that naïve can they? In the early days of the Crimea crisis entire military bases were being taken control of by armed men with no identification on them or their vehicles. I'm sure it was just the "locals" with pro-Russian ties and not Russian military forces...
I don't think there's any doubt that these "separatists" have many well, well trained members. Probably a combinations of sympathetic deserters from the Ukrainian military, regular schmucks, mercenaries, Russian infiltrators - the whole range.
And I don't think there's any doubt they have access of these weapons. They've claimed to capture some recently. They took over Crimea and all it's bases. And although it's being reported that US Intel doesn't think such heavy hardware has come across the border from Russia - since when is US Intel so accurate?
I'm just saying - they were talking like the probability that this airliner was shot down, across the Russian border under Russian command and control? The thought is against it.
Is it a mistake made by some (trained) personnel outside the overall network - more likely.
The point was that mistaking a commercial airliner for a cargo plane is not likely when these things are used in a air defense battery that has multiple stations, radars, a chain of command. But rather when it's an lone outpost and a bit renegade.
Who knows. We'll find out I'm sure in due course. And it's not like that command and control served the Russians very well during KAL007.
No - he was saying he didn't think it was the across the border Russian troops.
KIEV, Ukraine — As news broke of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 being downed in eastern Ukraine, the separatist’s shadowy commander with a pencil mustache issued a dark warning on social media.
Through his VK.com account, Russia’s version of Facebook, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Girkin — who goes by the nom de guerre Igor Strelkov — boasted about shooting down a plane.
"We did warn you — do not fly in our sky," he wrote.
Thinking it was a Ukrainian transport plane, Strelkov added that “a plane has just been downed somewhere around Torez, it lays there behind the 'Progress' mine,†referring to the mining town of some 80,000 people.
“And here is the video proving another 'bird' falling down,†he continued. “The bird went down behind a slagheap, not in a residential district. So no peaceful people were injured,†Strelkov wrote, adding that there is also information about a Ukrainian military plane shot down.
However, Strelkov deleted the post when he found out it was actually a commercial jetliner carrying 295 innocent people — not a military aircraft.
Pro-Russian rebel leader boasted about downing a plane before he realized the plane was #MH17 http://on.mash.to/1l96kgC pic.twitter.com/VywFHsMUG8
Through his VK.com account, Russia’s version of Facebook, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Girkin — who goes by the nom de guerre Igor Strelkov — boasted about shooting down a plane.
"We did warn you — do not fly in our sky," he wrote.
Thinking it was a Ukrainian transport plane, Strelkov added that “a plane has just been downed somewhere around Torez, it lays there behind the 'Progress' mine,†referring to the mining town of some 80,000 people.
“And here is the video proving another 'bird' falling down,†he continued. “The bird went down behind a slagheap, not in a residential district. So no peaceful people were injured,†Strelkov wrote, adding that there is also information about a Ukrainian military plane shot down.
However, Strelkov deleted the post when he found out it was actually a commercial jetliner carrying 295 innocent people — not a military aircraft.
Pro-Russian rebel leader boasted about downing a plane before he realized the plane was #MH17 http://on.mash.to/1l96kgC pic.twitter.com/VywFHsMUG8
If they didn't think they were seriously out of harm's way, do you REALLY think they'd fly that route? That route was flown at all time of the day and night by multiple international airlines. If they thought they were in danger of being shot down, they would NOT have allow their jets to use that airspace, no matter how high up.
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