*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[HFCS]

Maybe the committee wouldn't work but I think it's worked pretty well in basketball. I think the computers and polls having Stanford over Oregon at #4 in the BCS standings last year is a clear example of the BCS system not working for selecting playoff teams.

As a fan of a team in a conference who has far and away had the toughest schedules in college football the past few seasons I care ZERO about which of two very close teams from one other conference gets picked in the 4/5 position argument. I don't think a selection committee is better at that than SOS/computers anyway, both sides have an argument no matter what.

What I do care about is 0 and 1 loss teams from conferences that allow for incredibly easy schedules getting taken over more deserving 1 and 2 loss teams from the Big 12 that play tougher schedules. Look at Iowa's schedule this year, it's a freaking cakewalk compared to ours, and I think Iowa's conference and non-conf are still easily in the top half of BCS conference teams!

Selection committee = pi$$ on rewarding schedule strength
computers = only way to accurately account for schedule strength

Since the Big 12 (and apparently a majority of macho ISU fans) absolutely love us having the top SOS ranking every single year, it's insane for us to want a selection committee that "thinks" it takes SOS into account but really doesn't even at the 1/3 level the BCS takes it into account.

 

[HFCS]

For some reason I get the feeling that the Big 12 and the SEC are working together behind the scenes to coordinate their moves. One day Big 12 picks up Clemson, Florida state and the next day Virginia Tech and North Carolina get SEC invitations.

The best things the Big 12 has going for it in long term expansion possibilities (imho).

1. The SEC seems to be interested in only teams outside their footprint. They're already at 14, unlikely to ever move beyond 16, so that leaves A LOT of quality athletic programs available from the ACC for any future Big 12 and Big Ten expansion. Even if the Big Ten gets involved, there are easily two teams to be had by the Big 12 somehow if it ever starts crumbling.

2. Our current 10 seem to clearly generate more revenue per school than the ACC's previous 12 or future 14. Obviously the Big 12's current 10 generate more success on the football field in the BCS era.

3. In terms of 4 team playoff selection, recent history shows the Big 12 strongly at #2 in teams being chosen. The ACC is sixth over the past decade when you account that the MWC/WAC have been completely poached. If they continue being 5th or 6th in playoff selections it will increase the odds for some defections as years roll on.

On the other hand, expansion to an 8 or 16 team playoff could hurt the idea of ACC teams actively trying to join the SEC/Big 12/Big Ten. I actually think 8 or 16 suddenly makes getting into the playoffs from the ACC, Big East, ACC/MWC much easier than the power leagues unless the 8 or 16 team playoff were to take 8 teams from just the SEC and Big 12 (which clearly should have been the case last season).

 

[KidSilverhair]

Maybe the committee wouldn't work but I think it's worked pretty well in basketball. I think the computers and polls having Stanford over Oregon at #4 in the BCS standings last year is a clear example of the BCS system not working for selecting playoff teams.

I don't follow how this is wrong. Oregon lost two games ... true, they were to LSU and USC, but two losses are two losses. Stanford only lost to Oregon (badly, true, but one loss still trumps two losses). That makes them pretty equal, I say, as in you might as well flip a coin to see which one should actually be ranked ahead of the other. The postseason outcomes didn't really prove much, either, as Oregon only beat Wisconsin by a touchdown while Stanford went to overtime against what we all profess to be a national-championship-contender Oklahoma State.

Look, this is one of the faults about "deciding it on the field." Sometimes you have a bad day. Sometimes you have a wide-open field to the BCS championship and Iowa State gives you a smackdown. That's going to happen in a playoff system, too. Were the New York Giants truly the best team over the course of the season in the NFL? Heck, no. But they peaked in the playoffs and won the Super Bowl. Were the St. Louis Cardinals the best team in major league baseball last year? They barely snuck into the playoffs, but they played lights-out, got the breaks and won the World Series. "Best" does not always equal "playoff champion." It just doesn't.

That said ... not everybody is going to be happy with whatever gets decided on. I have my doubts about a committee picking the top four. I don't think the BCS rankings have been that terrible as far as putting the best teams at the top.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Do you guys remember when you figured out Santa wasn't real? I don't mean when your parents or some bratty kid told you, but when you realized that no one could fly around the world and visit every house on the planet in one night?

Well, I have kind of had that epiphany regarding the WVU board. When they said something about expect announcements last weekend, without any kind of BOR meetings or granting presidents rights to explore conferences, I realized they are all full of crap. Now I just sit back and enjoy all the nonsense.

 

[00clone]

Were the New York Giants truly the best team over the course of the season in the NFL? Heck, no. But they peaked in the playoffs and won the Super Bowl. Were the St. Louis Cardinals the best team in major league baseball last year? They barely snuck into the playoffs, but they played lights-out, got the breaks and won the World Series. "Best" does not always equal "playoff champion." It just doesn't.

True...difference being, the Giants and Cardinals and even NCAA basketball and FCS football have a controlling body that says "This is how we decide our champion, if you don't like it, too bad". FBS is still stuck pandering to the bowls. *fingers crossed* Hopefully that changes, if only slightly.

 

[FarminCy]

]Do you guys remember when you figured out Santa wasn't real? I don't mean when your parents or some bratty kid told you, but when you realized that no one could fly around the world and visit every house on the planet in one night? [/B]

Well, I have kind of had that epiphany regarding the WVU board. When they said something about expect announcements last weekend, without any kind of BOR meetings or granting presidents rights to explore conferences, I realized they are all full of crap. Now I just sit back and enjoy all the nonsense.

What is this nonsense you speak of? It's all done by magic, that's a scientific fact. Also if there really wasn't a Santa Clause than who ate my cookies, who was mommy kissing, and who ran over Grandma? I rest my case.

 

[CarolinaCy]

The bolded part is key. This guy hasn't been right about anything yet. I don't know why he has so much credibility by the internet masses. He's been making predictions and posts about FSU and Clemson for awhile now and none of it has panned out.

IIRC, he was supposedly out in front of the WVU to the Big XII announcement last year, so that probably bought him a ton of cred. Maybe he actually knew something, maybe he just got lucky with that, I really don't know.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

What is this nonsense you speak of? It's all done by magic, that's a scientific fact. Also if there really wasn't a Santa Clause than who ate my cookies, who was mommy kissing, and who ran over Grandma? I rest my case.

I must confess...it was me.....



at least the part about your mom

ZING!

 

[Al_4_State]

IIRC, he was supposedly out in front of the WVU to the Big XII announcement last year, so that probably bought him a ton of cred. Maybe he actually knew something, maybe he just got lucky with that, I really don't know.

I never heard of him prior to these announcements. I remember that Mounty71 guy being very accurate with the Big 12 stuff, even the little hiccup that occurred when Louisville tried to jump in.

 

[Wesley]

The best things the Big 12 has going for it in long term expansion possibilities (imho).

1. The SEC seems to be interested in only teams outside their footprint. They're already at 14, unlikely to ever move beyond 16, so that leaves A LOT of quality athletic programs available from the ACC for any future Big 12 and Big Ten expansion. Even if the Big Ten gets involved, there are easily two teams to be had by the Big 12 somehow if it ever starts crumbling.

2. Our current 10 seem to clearly generate more revenue per school than the ACC's previous 12 or future 14. Obviously the Big 12's current 10 generate more success on the football field in the BCS era.

3. In terms of 4 team playoff selection, recent history shows the Big 12 strongly at #2 in teams being chosen. The ACC is sixth over the past decade when you account that the MWC/WAC have been completely poached. If they continue being 5th or 6th in playoff selections it will increase the odds for some defections as years roll on.

On the other hand, expansion to an 8 or 16 team playoff could hurt the idea of ACC teams actively trying to join the SEC/Big 12/Big Ten. I actually think 8 or 16 suddenly makes getting into the playoffs from the ACC, Big East, ACC/MWC much easier than the power leagues unless the 8 or 16 team playoff were to take 8 teams from just the SEC and Big 12 (which clearly should have been the case last season).

And that is why Siive wants a four team playoff.

 

[KidSilverhair]

True...difference being, the Giants and Cardinals and even NCAA basketball and FCS football have a controlling body that says "This is how we decide our champion, if you don't like it, too bad". FBS is still stuck pandering to the bowls. *fingers crossed* Hopefully that changes, if only slightly.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You play by whatever rules you're governed by at the time. I just hear lots of people saying a playoff is the "only true way" to prove who's best. It's just a different way, that's all. It'd be a lot more fun and way more lucrative, but it's not necessarily going to "prove" anything.

 

[JohnnyFive]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You play by whatever rules you're governed by at the time. I just hear lots of people saying a playoff is the "only true way" to prove who's best. It's just a different way, that's all. It'd be a lot more fun and way more lucrative, but it's not necessarily going to "prove" anything.

Couldn't agree more.

The flaws of the BCS were obviously there, but they were tolerable or else it wouldn't have lasted so long. The minute this new playoff deal gets signed, do you think the ******** will stop? No system will ever be perfect. Schools just adapt and figure out ways to take advantage of whatever system is in place.

The past few years, someone just decided, hey, if we're going to do this, we might as well choke as much money out of it as we can.

 

[00clone]

Couldn't agree more.

The flaws of the BCS were obviously there, but they were tolerable or else it wouldn't have lasted so long. The minute this new playoff deal gets signed, do you think the ******** will stop? No system will ever be perfect. Schools just adapt and figure out ways to take advantage of whatever system is in place.

The past few years, someone just decided, hey, if we're going to do this, we might as well choke as much money out of it as we can.

The BCS lasted so long because the group that got money or power benefits from it was so large. Unfortunately, the schools in most cases weren't in that group. For that reason, I'd like the bowls gone and see something like the champions bowl, where it's controlled by the conferences.

However, I'll be honest, will it stop the complaining? Nope. NASCAR learned that lesson. They went to 'the chase' because people were complaining about it being 'boring' and Kenseth winning the championship with few or no wins, and Homestead was complaining about the championship being locked up before their race started.

So they made that one change. Then 10 wasn't enough when a couple of popular drivers got locked out.....it goes on and on, seemed like they were changing rules every couple of weeks for a while there.

 

[Die4Cy]

The best things the Big 12 has going for it in long term expansion possibilities (imho).

1. The SEC seems to be interested in only teams outside their footprint. They're already at 14, unlikely to ever move beyond 16, so that leaves A LOT of quality athletic programs available from the ACC for any future Big 12 and Big Ten expansion. Even if the Big Ten gets involved, there are easily two teams to be had by the Big 12 somehow if it ever starts crumbling.

2. Our current 10 seem to clearly generate more revenue per school than the ACC's previous 12 or future 14. Obviously the Big 12's current 10 generate more success on the football field in the BCS era.

3. In terms of 4 team playoff selection, recent history shows the Big 12 strongly at #2 in teams being chosen. The ACC is sixth over the past decade when you account that the MWC/WAC have been completely poached. If they continue being 5th or 6th in playoff selections it will increase the odds for some defections as years roll on.

On the other hand, expansion to an 8 or 16 team playoff could hurt the idea of ACC teams actively trying to join the SEC/Big 12/Big Ten. I actually think 8 or 16 suddenly makes getting into the playoffs from the ACC, Big East, ACC/MWC much easier than the power leagues unless the 8 or 16 team playoff were to take 8 teams from just the SEC and Big 12 (which clearly should have been the case last season).

This is one of the main reasons why little will happen with it until the BCS situation becomes more clear. If there is any chance that the playoff will expand in the near future to include more than four teams, being in a meat grinder SOS conference will not pay dividends. I think the Big 4 conferences might defect from the BCS playoff if that was proposed however. I believe the Champions Bowl is a shot across the bow to remind the BCS that conferences like the Big 12 and SEC are doing them a big ($$$$) favor and do not have to play by their rules.

ND is attempting to keep the ACC on the phone and on life support because they want to see for sure if independence will remain a viable option for them as well. If they don't have a second viable suitor they have no leverage for concessions.

I think a final announcement of how the four team playoff works will be the step to get things moving once again, if at all. Until then we're just picking our noses.

 

[HFCS]

And that is why Siive wants a four team playoff.

A four team playoff with 2-3 teams from the SEC and Big 12 every year is much more accurate in terms of the actual quality of football than an 8 team playoff where the Big Ten, ACC, Pac 12 and Big East get an automatic spot for their champion.

The BCS AQ thing has been completely ridiculous. KSU and Arkansas being passed over for a half dozen lower ranked teams last year was a total joke. The bowls were BEGGING the SEC and Big 12 to give them the huge F-U that the Champions Bowl is for that mess.

I'm in Slive's corner in a lot of this. The one difference being I want the hammer to drop on his programs big time for the slightest rules violation. They have enough natural advantages already without leading the nation in rule bending.

 

[Let's Go State]

Nobody can give me a good reason for the conference to expand other than 'its not stable'.
We want a championship game? That could burn us with a selection committee playoff now. More money? Not as guaranteed as it may be discussed - ask SEC.
WVU needs a buddy in out East? Ummmm ok

I'm sorry.... I like 10 a lot..... Status quo is a very good option.

 

[alarson]

I'm in Slive's corner in a lot of this. The one difference being I want the hammer to drop on his programs big time for the slightest rules violation. They have enough natural advantages already without leading the nation in rule bending.

Agreed. I'd like to see death-penalty-like punishments again. People always say the NCAA did that and it killed SMU, without remembering that the only reason SMU was so good was the cheating, so the death penalty only restored the natural order of things. Dropping it on say... an Ohio State.. would hurt it, but with their alumni\fanbase they would recover.

 

[HFCS]

And that is why Siive wants a four team playoff.

The real question is why all the Big Ten ADs wanted a two team playoff.

When it finally happens the SEC will have been the main reason we got any sort of a playoff and the cowardly Big Ten will be the main reason it took decades.

 

[isuno1fan]

Do you guys remember when you figured out Santa wasn't real? I don't mean when your parents or some bratty kid told you, but when you realized that no one could fly around the world and visit every house on the planet in one night?

Well, I have kind of had that epiphany regarding the WVU board. When they said something about expect announcements last weekend, without any kind of BOR meetings or granting presidents rights to explore conferences, I realized they are all full of crap. Now I just sit back and enjoy all the nonsense.

So now Louisville might be back in? :smile:

 

[cykadelic2]

For what its worth...

The dude speaks...

The Dude of WV on WVU: The Big 12 is About to Make a Big Mistake

The Dude is full of crap on this one. I don't know why he doesn't mention the obvious, FSU and Clemson are going to wait on ND's decision regarding the ACC before they make any move. It simple to figure that out and he doesn't mention it at all.