When Cultures Collide...

[herbiedoobie]

This may come off as an odd post, but I am finding that it is very difficult for me to post in an audience-acceptable manner, on this forum. Being 43, conservative and a devotee to the discipline of warfighting, I am coming to realize that things I am saying and the way that I say them are not acceptable to younger, more liberal and sensitive folks.

The culture I live and work in finds it acceptable or is required to discuss violent, and otherwise unsavory topics, in often violent and unsavory ways. (Just last night, during a 2.5 hour meeting, various co-workers, to include boss/subordinates, people jokingly (and sometimes not so jokingly) called each other names using very rough language, and this morning it's still okay between us.

(The movie view of the authoritarian relationship between superior and subordinate is way off, btw. We had a young lieutenant stand up to a senior colonel and win, last night, in a pretty heated discussion.)

In the culture I'm from, the guy who tries to "make nice" gets the negative rep.

I've been tagged by the mods a couple times earlier this year (bans) and a certain discussion I'm involved in, currently, has been edited heavily. I STILL don't understand why I was tagged the first couple of times, and the edited post, I "guess" I know the reason, but I can look at other posts by both myself and others and not see what "line" I crossed.

I guess the bottom line is, if I get banned once more, I'm gone, and want to say good-bye before that. I'm also interested in reading what others think about this "clash of cultures" thing.

 

[isucyfan]

I don't know much of what you are getting at in terms of "problem" threads, but you have crossed no lines with me or in any threads I personally have read. Respectful disagreement is healthy, IMO.

That being said, the forum rules are the forum rules, and it is up to the mods to enforce them as they are interpreted.

As for the "clash of cultures", I have always been one that says, "To each his/her own" and I respect opinions even if I wholeheartedly disagree with them.

Here's to hoping you don't get banned...

 

[Johnny Tremain]

This may come off as an odd post, but I am finding that it is very difficult for me to post in an audience-acceptable manner, on this forum. Being 43, conservative and a devotee to the discipline of warfighting, I am coming to realize that things I am saying and the way that I say them are not acceptable to younger, more liberal and sensitive folks.

The culture I live and work in finds it acceptable or is required to discuss violent, and otherwise unsavory topics, in often violent and unsavory ways. (Just last night, during a 2.5 hour meeting, various co-workers, to include boss/subordinates, people jokingly (and sometimes not so jokingly) called each other names using very rough language, and this morning it's still okay between us.

(The movie view of the authoritarian relationship between superior and subordinate is way off, btw. We had a young lieutenant stand up to a senior colonel and win, last night, in a pretty heated discussion.)

In the culture I'm from, the guy who tries to "make nice" gets the negative rep.

I've been tagged by the mods a couple times earlier this year (bans) and a certain discussion I'm involved in, currently, has been edited heavily. I STILL don't understand why I was tagged the first couple of times, and the edited post, I "guess" I know the reason, but I can look at other posts by both myself and others and not see what "line" I crossed.

I guess the bottom line is, if I get banned once more, I'm gone, and want to say good-bye before that. I'm also interested in reading what others think about this "clash of cultures" thing.

Should you decide that the culture of this board is too sensitive for a brute like you, here are some links of interest for the "devotee of the discipline of warfighting".

Link: Military.com Forums - Powered by eve community

Link: Milblogging.com: The World's Largest Index of Military Blogs (Milblogs) | Top 100 Favorite Milblogs

Link: Military Blogs

In particular, I invite your attention to the Military.com discussion boards where I believe you will find posters with similar personalities and ego.

And BTW, setting yourself aside as a troubled soul caught up in a clash of cultures might get you some play in an Iowa City bar but I doubt that it is going generate much sympathy around here.

 

[Cyclonepride]

It's really hard to say what I think about that, Herbie, in part because I haven't seen what specifically gets edited from your posts. I think it would be a loss to this board to not have your opinion though.

 

[4VR4CY]

Don't take your ball and go home....

Even if we don't like them at times, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It is good to have a thought provoker around.

We all have our breaking point, but don't let this be yours.

 

[pulse]

Very interesting. I could see how there might be someone in particular who doesn't agree with your feelings or how you present them, and is therfore overzealous. I haven't seen anything warranting what you've said. Hopefully those involved will step up and discuss with you.

 

[Jer]

I thought I'd chime in here real quick about moderating and certain posts...

Obviously we have about 20 moderators with about 20 different backgrounds and opinions. We created the forum rules a few months ago to help make sure we all try to moderate according to the same philosophy and not according to our personal opinions and values. Obviously we're all human beings though and we still have to interpret things in our own way.

As far as the exact nature of what was edited in any of your posts - we as mods absolutely hate to have to do anything to anybody's posts or threads. We like coming to the site to have fun just like everybody else so we only moderate when deemed necessary. I don't know off the top of my head what was edited but it's a moderator rule to send you a PM notice explaining what rule your post may have violated. We do our best to try and let things go but there are times that we have to look out for the best of everybody and sometimes that means editing a post or deleting a thread because of what was said or the way it was stated.

I personally hope you stay on the site and I understand the frustration you're probably going through. When I first started the site I took things that were said against my opinions very personally until one morning I bumped my head or something and decided that we all have different opinions and I'd just let things go by me without taking it personally.

There is a fine line between stating an opinion and being offensive and we all have different ideals that we use when determining if something has crossed the line. We have a moderator forum on here that we use to discuss things before they get edited and I'm pretty certain anything would have been discussed before acted upon. I apologize for it seeming as though you're an outcast because I can assure you that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of viewers that have the same opinion as you on any topic. Often times those that agree just won't be as vocal as those that disagree. Again, we don't edit posts for opinions, only because of either personal attacks or for inappropriate material.

 

[everyyard]

This may come off as an odd post, but I am finding that it is very difficult for me to post in an audience-acceptable manner, on this forum. Being 43, conservative and a devotee to the discipline of warfighting, I am coming to realize that things I am saying and the way that I say them are not acceptable to younger, more liberal and sensitive folks.

The culture I live and work in finds it acceptable or is required to discuss violent, and otherwise unsavory topics, in often violent and unsavory ways. (Just last night, during a 2.5 hour meeting, various co-workers, to include boss/subordinates, people jokingly (and sometimes not so jokingly) called each other names using very rough language, and this morning it's still okay between us.

(The movie view of the authoritarian relationship between superior and subordinate is way off, btw. We had a young lieutenant stand up to a senior colonel and win, last night, in a pretty heated discussion.)

In the culture I'm from, the guy who tries to "make nice" gets the negative rep.

I've been tagged by the mods a couple times earlier this year (bans) and a certain discussion I'm involved in, currently, has been edited heavily. I STILL don't understand why I was tagged the first couple of times, and the edited post, I "guess" I know the reason, but I can look at other posts by both myself and others and not see what "line" I crossed.

I guess the bottom line is, if I get banned once more, I'm gone, and want to say good-bye before that. I'm also interested in reading what others think about this "clash of cultures" thing.

is that violins I hear...

 

[herbiedoobie]

No violins. And I'm not going anywhere, until I step on my anatomical parts again, post-wise. Just an observation.

 

[cyeah]

I don't have any idea on what you posted or not - I rarely look at the left side where the screen names are I just read the posts.

I wonder though - of all the people accusing you of whining (is that violins i hear, etc.) how many of them are the ones too sensitive for what you are getting in trouble for.

Remember doodle, free speech is only for those who take the liberal line on things. We are all created equal - some are just more equal than others - the average person is to ignorant to think on their own, that is why the left must educate us all.

If you keep those things in mind, you can get by. sarcasm off.

 

[Cyclonesrule91]

Herbie, just so you know, I am pretty sure we share a lot of the same beliefs and I agree with a lot of your posts. Stick around

 

[ISUFan22]

Feeling a bit red?

 

[benjay]

I am coming to realize that things I am saying and the way that I say them are not acceptable to younger, more liberal and sensitive folks.

Hey man, if you say stupid things, people are going to call you on it. If people disagree with you, they're going to argue their points. It doesn't mean you hurt anybody's feelings. /shrug

 

[jumbopackage]

All I have to say is that tolerance is a two way street.

I'm nearly impossible to offend. I tolerate people who are easily offended, even though it really offends me that they are so "offensible", and I expect them to occasionally tolerate something a little out of their comfort zone.

At any rate, getting worked up over anything other than cyclone crap on a cyclone message board is pretty stupid in the first place, IMO.

 

[iceclone]

I think I have been involved in at least two of those "controversial" threads, so I'll chime in with my 2 cents. I have absolutely no problem with you or your posts. There are a couple of instances where I decided not to respond to you, not because I was offended, but because I thought the discussion might be offensive to others in this forum. Your comment about clash of cultures is right on, and I'm especially concerned that there are many people here that are much, much younger than we are.

I don’t pretend to fully understand the world that you work in, but I’ve had a few opportunities to observe similar situations, especially through my brother-in-law, who is a senior officer in the Army. I’ll share one story as an example. A few years back they were living on base in APG, and while we were checking in late at night (required for visitors) it became immediately clear that one of the soldiers in the guard room was under the influence. My brother-in-law, who at the time carried the rank that I believe to be your rank, was clearly fuming over this, but he didn’t say anything. We all got back into our cars, we dropped the wifes and kids off at the house, and then I went back with him. He then proceeded to lay into everyone in the room using language that on TV would be translated to bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep …. bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep. My point with the story is that I understand that the language you are using in this forum is way toned down from the language you use in everyday conversation, but since this is a completely open forum (the kids are still here), we should all try to be careful.

Finally, I hope you stay.

 

[4VR4CY]

I don't want to turn this thread into a sexist issue thread... so please don't take this that way. I am in a MBA class right now and we were discussing charismatic business leaders. No women were mentioned. When I asked for an example, people could only come up with women who were in entertainment and business. Not the same thing, IMO. (Also, an interesting article re crying and how men/women are judged by it these days in public positions on CNN.com.)

So, we come to my question. When you are in these meetings with the words/names flying, are there women officers there? Do they take part in the slinging?

 

[jumbopackage]

I don't want to turn this thread into a sexist issue thread... so please don't take this that way. I am in a MBA class right now and we were discussing charismatic business leaders. No women were mentioned. When I asked for an example, people could only come up with women who were in entertainment and business. Not the same thing, IMO. (Also, an interesting article re crying and how men/women are judged by it these days in public positions on CNN.com.)

So, we come to my question. When you are in these meetings with the words/names flying, are there women officers there? Do they take part in the slinging?

Some women officers aren't far removed from their male counterparts. Others you have to tiptoe around a bit. Generally the ones who are more career oriented are the biggest pains to deal with, since they view the "comfortable" system as an obstacle.

Much like the rest of life, it just depends

Women in the workplace is always a difficult subject. Lots of people's experiences aren't positive for whatever reason. It's no different in the military than it is in the "real world" in that regard.

 

[everyyard]

I don't have any idea on what you posted or not - I rarely look at the left side where the screen names are I just read the posts.

I wonder though - of all the people accusing you of whining (is that violins i hear, etc.) how many of them are the ones too sensitive for what you are getting in trouble for.

Remember doodle, free speech is only for those who take the liberal line on things. We are all created equal - some are just more equal than others - the average person is to ignorant to think on their own, that is why the left must educate us all.

If you keep those things in mind, you can get by. sarcasm off.

you can bring whatever you want to post. If I think it is silly or ignorant or misinformed I am likely to return the favor and post my opinion. That is how it works. It isn't a liberal thing it is called freedom of speech. If you're afraid to post it that isn't my problem. It probably helps if you think through it and that way if it is offensive at least you meant it to be.

 

[jbhtexas]

The culture I live and work in finds it acceptable or is required to discuss violent, and otherwise unsavory topics, in often violent and unsavory ways. (Just last night, during a 2.5 hour meeting, various co-workers, to include boss/subordinates, people jokingly (and sometimes not so jokingly) called each other names using very rough language, and this morning it's still okay between us.

In the culture I'm from, the guy who tries to "make nice" gets the negative rep.
[...]
I'm also interested in reading what others think about this "clash of cultures" thing.

If by "clash of cultures" you mean some people acting like adults while others act like 5th graders, then I guess I agree with you.

In the company where I work, we also have people who see the need to act like 5th graders and call people names and rant/rave using profanity. I'm sure I've been called most every name you have. I choose not to act that way. I try to remain calm and use logical arguments. And you know what...at the end of the day...I usually get what I want and they don't (and that just hisses them off even more). Any superior worth a hoot, whether military or civillian, should choose a sound, logically presented case over an emotional rant. If not, that organization is not worth working for.

It's never required to act like an idiot...

 

[keepngoal]

Herbie,

I think you hit on a good subject here. I understand what you are saying about giving others a hard time and then waking up the next day and everything is alright I can really relate too. I have friends and family that I act loose and fun with, knowing I am going to take a bunch of flak and verbal abuse but give it right back. then wake up the next day and say, I had fun last night, when can we do this again? Basically water off of a ducks back. There is a bond there that can't be torn by crude, harsh or mean words when they know it is only sarcasm and light spirited.

However, I liken this site to a store front (even though we aren't selling products), it is an open space for so many to visit. I wouldn't do what I mentioned earlier in the post at a movie theater lobby, food court at a mall or at a Best Buy. Basically respecting the location I am at and knowing its' boundaries. I am not saying you are not respecting this location ... just trying to make a point that some behavior and words are better placed in certain situations and around other people versus other locations and basically strangers. I think that if you look at the location more of a public area and our main bond being Cyclone Athletics, we all can go along ways out here.

Personally, I try to act like I am at a company Holiday party. there is a boundary you don't cross (and must show some of your professionalism), yet you have a drink in your hand to liven things up.

Maybe more later... the bubbles from last night are still clogging up my thoughts.....

-keep.