Zone defense?!? WHY?!?

mwitt

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Mar 23, 2006
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Bolt isn't giving this defense much of a chance to succeed with this pathetic zone he is playing.

The defensive line isn't giving this defense much chance to succeed. People have been making excuses for the defense for weeks. That they aren't that bad, that they're on the field so much because the offense is struggling, etc.

We didn't punt once tonight, had 574 yards of offense, and we lost by 14 at home to a bad team.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that we're not going to have a competitive defense with the kind of pass rush we have had all year, but especially the last three weeks.
 
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cybsball20

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Nov 26, 2006
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Why is the slot WR always open? They cover him with a LB and slow safety, he finds the seam and gets good yards, play after play, game after game. When they go nickel and have a DB man on man it messes up the QB and what they want to do. Why not try something like playing with 1 safety and 3 CBs, or play with 2 LBs and 5 DBs? Whats it going to hurt? Its not like this D can can stop anyone.


The slot receiver was open all night because Smith was jumping the run every play and then the guy got behind him. One of the main keys in this type of zone is the middle linebacker getting depth and fast (watch Urlacher and you will see this to perfection). I love what Smith does against the run game but he was very one dimensional tongiht.
 

BKLYNCyclone

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Sep 16, 2007
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Anyone see the LSU Express defense? We don't have the personnel, but it is awesome.. Line up fast DEs on the line and blitz the passer. Of course, that would require some sort of secondary...:nah:
 

CyBobby

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Oct 18, 2006
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As I remember correctly Jim Criner ran a man to man coverage scheme and any team who could throw long ...did for lots of easy touchdowns...

With a man to man coverage A & M would have score 80 points!!


This defence is so slow it has to keep everything in front of them and then hope to tackle somebody...


btw this is the worst tackling team in decades at ISU..


Patience Guys Next Year Will Be Better...:smile:
 

jimmycy

Member
Apr 19, 2006
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Everyone and their dog knows what we run, the same ol' zone. All they need to do is find the gap and instant 1st down. The coaches might say we dont have the personnel to run man, but there are better options. Id rather get killed by man coverage than zone. I doubt we'd give up 80% completion with man coverage. I wanna call Gene monday night to see what his idea is with the predictable D were running.
If we had played man tonight the aggies would have scored 70 points easy. #4 and #8 would have done even more damage than they did. With no pass rush a man defense is a recipe for disaster. Our dbacks are already shorter and slower than the WR's. It is the truth.
 

lmsoup

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Apr 11, 2006
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It starts with our complete inability to put any pressure on the passer. Anyone that knows even a little about football knows teams that struggle on the defensive line often run some sort of zone in the secondary.

If we want to get better on defense, we need quicker defensive linemen.

Bingo
 

ajk4st8

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Mar 27, 2006
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Bolt isn't giving this defense much of a chance to succeed with this pathetic zone he is playing.


As opposed to what defense? Look at our D line. Look at our Safeties. We are VERY bad on both fronts.

Do you really want to see Jesse Smith covering guys down the field? That would be even more of a blood bath.
 

Wesley

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Apr 12, 2006
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Our defense is painfully, painfully slow as a whole. Man to man would be a disaster, even more so than the disaster that is our passing defense. Our Dline is too slow to chase down any QB, our LB's can't keep up with TE's let alone WR's, our defense is sorely missing athletes.


As opposed to allowing 5 AtM long drives in a row and the only punt for our 34 down to our 1? Running the same defense with no pressure is a sure fire recipe to 30 or more points evey night. About the only thing is we have not allowed 53, 55, 58, 70 points yet.
 

Wesley

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Apr 12, 2006
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Anyone see the LSU Express defense? We don't have the personnel, but it is awesome.. Line up fast DEs on the line and blitz the passer. Of course, that would require some sort of secondary...:nah:


We have corners blitzing which means our linebackers are not fast enough to blitz. :nah: This will be the week of what is wrong with our defense after two weeks of what is wrong with our offense. Note tht the turnovers are coming few and far between. Heard that the big 12 leader in turnovers practice every monday on how to strip the ball.
 

JDDCy

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Jul 1, 2006
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Not to pick on one guy but Hunley's coverage made Jesse Smith's look adequate. He was slipping and falling all over the field tonight. It looked worse in person. I watched the tape, on TV you really don't notice how poor Hunley was. James Smith isn't bad but he needs a partner back there to help out. I would love to see Kennard moved over to safety so we could have 3 decent cover guys in at once. To bad Brown hasn't recovered from his injury. Is there any chance he could get a sixth year? Anyone know if Benton was hurt? I don't believe he played tonight.
 

Wesley

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Apr 12, 2006
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Not to pick on one guy but Hunley's coverage made Jesse Smith's look adequate. He was slipping and falling all over the field tonight. It looked worse in person. I watched the tape, on TV you really don't notice how poor Hunley was. James Smith isn't bad but he needs a partner back there to help out. I would love to see Kennard moved over to safety so we could have 3 decent cover guys in at once. To bad Brown hasn't recovered from his injury. Is there any chance he could get a sixth year? Anyone know if Benton was hurt? I don't believe he played tonight.


Hundley was the one who blew the interception. Guess they found the weak link. It was the designer SHOES.
 

illinoiscyclone

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Jan 30, 2008
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Why is the slot WR always open? They cover him with a LB and slow safety, he finds the seam and gets good yards, play after play, game after game. When they go nickel and have a DB man on man it messes up the QB and what they want to do. Why not try something like playing with 1 safety and 3 CBs, or play with 2 LBs and 5 DBs? Whats it going to hurt? Its not like this D can can stop anyone.

i cant speak for bolt's philosophies, but i would imagine that he and chizik have similar philosophies, otherwise chizik probably wouldnt have brought him in. chizik comes from the tony dungy- monte kiffin- lovie smith tampa 2 lineage. the defense can be highly effective, and it has been proven so. we simply do not have the right personnel to run it. we need faster dl's to get a better pass rush, like former players bolt has coached such as demarcus ware or osi umenyiora. the tampa 2 is predicated on qb pressure which is why the bears' d has been good, but is not so much this year. tommie harris is not doing well and there is a big hole as that 3-technique DL is important, possibly even more so for the run. the db's can only cover for so long.

back to not having the personnel. our safties are marginal, but our corners have the ability to be shut-down corners. i think bolt has to scheme around jesse smith some because, maybe this can be said about any defense, but LB's that can play sideline to sideline are a must. jesse is good keeping the middle of the field locked down, but he is no brian urlacher. he is more of a hunter hillenmeyer, who plays strong side and is helped out alot by having the rangy urlacher in the middle. the safties dont have to be the best at coverage, and ours arent, but they should be able to scare any wr's who come into their zone into dropping the ball, ex mike brown and adam archuletta when he played for the rams, not the bears.

the reason why those deep posts kept working, is because one of the major flaws in the base cover 2 is that there are two spots on the field that are wide open in certain situations. the middle between the safeties is a soft spot, and the corners have flats (outside shallow area) so behind the corner but underneath the safety. deep outs are particularly effective, against this, as was illustrated by the falcons game winning late drive against the bears. i didnt see the whole play each time, but i would almost bet that aTm ran some sort of smash corner route (hitches on the outside, corners on the inside) and then a deep post down the seam. its called a seam for a reason, because it is the ambiguous area in between deep zones, where it could be either man's responsibility. anyway, this smash corner with the deep post forces the saftey's hand. the safety must chose the post or the corner, and a good safety will take the corner route because he has help towards the middle of the field. the MLB must drop into a deep deep zone to cover the post, or the olb has to run with it, either way usually leads to a mismatch. corners obviously cover the shallow route, such as the zig out or the hitch.

as for the original post, you cant change defensive philosophies mid season. going to a 4-2-5 multiple D isnt going to help much, especillay because the players have had the 4-3 pounded into their heads. with that said, they will play it some as in a nickel package.

i know this is kind of all over the place, because i have so many things to think about this. i could write a paper.
 

ketelmeister

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Oct 24, 2006
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Bring some heat! It seemed like we blitzed 3 times the whole game.

We tried everything...when we blitzed, we got burned. Our LBs just don't get there fast enough. When we went man, we got burned, and our zone was bad because of NO line rush. We have to compensate in the middle somehow, but face it, when freshmen are your best defensive players, you have a problem.
 

SmokinH2O

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Oct 10, 2008
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Seems like we don't have the Safties that anyone fears. To me aTm almost took LJ out of the game last night by not giving him much to hit with most passes going over the middle. Then once aTm caught the ball they were able to run like they were playing a bunch of 6th graders. Poor tackling to go along with a soft middle, complimented by slow DL makes for lots-o-points. I don't fault the players, they are trying to excecute to the best of their abilities and they play hard every down. We just wiff to much when we need a stop or a game changing play.

I'm really scared how OSU and Mizzou will just kill us with their pass happy O's. Chase may be able to set some new records. :sad:
 
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Wesley

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So if we are stuck with Cover 2 Tampa with inadequate players galore, the question is why did we come into the season doing something that is a loser? Nebraska usually plays just 2 linebackers and nickel/dime most of the time because theis is a passing league. Would you not be smarter to get burned with running plays than with passing at this point? Right now, we are on the path to 2-10.
 

kingcy

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i cant speak for bolt's philosophies, but i would imagine that he and chizik have similar philosophies, otherwise chizik probably wouldnt have brought him in.

They differ some. Bolt likes to blitz a lot and Chizik doesnt like to blitz.
 

mplscyclone

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Jul 8, 2008
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Some of the best defenses play the Cover 2. If you run a good zone, it can be really successful.

-You need to pressure the QB, however, and we did not do that
-The players in the zone need to learn to pick up guys when they come across it, that's why the middle of the field was open all game.
-Had we played man to man, we would've gotten burned as well, as it was pretty evident their WRs were quicker than our secondary.
 
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guitarchitect7

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Oct 8, 2006
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It's interesting because you all are answering your own questions. You need some of the best to run the Cover 2 / Tampa 2. You need some of the best to run man to man. So apparently no matter what we choose to run, it will never be as effective as we imagine in our heads. Our zone coverage gives us the best chance to win, period. If we ever went man to man, then we run into double coverage and one on one with LB's or smaller, slower CB's. By going zone we are able to at least keep our safties back and cover more ground with our slower LB's. Why do you think Bell switch to LB. He was a big RB in his day, a good quality to have for a future LB.

The other issue was also already pointed out. Jesse is a great hard nose player. He can get up there and stuff the run, does help with the blitz, but does always seem to be a step or two behind. If he can't get to the QB quick enough, he also doesn't seem to be able to cover enough of the field when dropping back either. Our DL can't plug the holes, and our DE's can't get enough pressure on the QB's, so this ends up making Jesse cheat up on the line a bit too much which then opens the middle of the field between the two safties. It's happened all season.

Leonard Johnson has the makings of a good shutdown corner. He needs to learn to trust himself more because he even cheats back a few times instead of keeping the pressue on the WR. But otherwise he has good speed and hard hitting abilities. Teran Benton may have the same intangiables, but haven't gotten a good look at him yet. This may also be why Allen Bell doesn't start, or even play. They guy never looked that physical when he played. Has the speed to keep up with the guy, but not the tools to be that physical. Just a thought.

The lack of coverage also does come down to the safties too. These guys can't cover enough ground as they need. Watching the Bears game a few weeks ago the announcers talked a lot about the point of imact or something. Essentially all your players are positioned on the field that once a WR makes a catch you end up having two or three defenders within a few steps on laying a huge hit and causing a turnover. You can see the agreesiveness is there within the team (hence all the Personal Fouls), but their speed to get to the impact point is not there. Instead the WR finds the hole, the Saftey can't get there, and the WR gets a big gain.

And if you kepts your eyes open during the whole game, we even went dime a few times with our zone. We had four CB's in at one time and still couldn't stop them. So even when you put faster guys on the field, it still shows that the executions is still not there. It is about personell, something your not going to have in a second second with a new coach and philosophy.

Just my two cents.