Worst offense in the Big 12?

Which Big 12 team has the toughest time on offense? Only adding teams that I feel qualify

  • Texas

    Votes: 7 4.2%
  • Texas Tech

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Iowa State

    Votes: 127 76.5%
  • TCU

    Votes: 6 3.6%
  • Oklahoma St

    Votes: 8 4.8%
  • WVU

    Votes: 4 2.4%
  • K state

    Votes: 13 7.8%

  • Total voters
    166

SolarGarlic

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2016
4,452
6,227
113
Maybe this was discussed in this thread or others - are we running the high-post weave a lot more compared to earlier in the season? It seemed like there was a lot more ball-movement and player movement in non-con -- and we've been going more and more to this since start of league schedule. I assume if that's the case, it was because defenses adjusted and that's the adjustment we've attempted to make.

We've run the high post entry all season. We were handing off a lot more and sooner in earlier games. I don't know how much freedom Conditt has, but it seems like he has his choice of what to do and he's waiting for something too easy. This is the Big 12, you aren't going to see a wide open cutter.

A lot of times it's designed to hand off to Brockington, which is a fine choice. I think it should be used as a way to initiate the offense, not as the sole point of action. We need to run counters and have other actions when it's clearly not working.

I also think TJ needs to have a handful of sets to run every game when we need an easy bucket. The lack of back door plays is frustrating given how teams are playing us. We also usually see a set play to start the game and then nothing after. Why not go back to those as they've had some success getting the ball inside on early possessions?

One of the biggest issues we had Saturday was Hunter's lack of ball security. He's the x-factor because he's the only guy that can put the ball on the floor and get to the hoop. They need to develop his decision making in the lane. There is no time to think when you have the ball in your hand. Too often he's caught scanning when he should be driving with a plan. This leads to defenders picking his pocket. We desperately need him to develop his scoring inside and out.

And for pete's sake, we have to get something out of our starting shooting guard and our top shooting guard reserve. Knock down an open shot.
 

quasistellar

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,080
1,439
113
Idk, I think TJ has evaluated what he’s got and is trying to make the best of it. He know he’s got some talent capped players and a couple projects with potential (enaruna and hunter). He said in the past that his coaching style is to play to his players’ strengths. Well, most of his guys can’t shoot a lick, etc.

I think that’s why when he was asked about the performance after the game he talked about improving on defense. He‘s probably pretty sure almost everyone on this team is offensively maxed out.

Thats why I can’t really get too angry with this slump. We’ve seen horrible offense all season, but the defense was able to overcome it until now. The only real improvement I expect to see is Hunter and Enaruna. Enaruna I’m not sure what his status is. . . seemed like he was nursing an injury Saturday?
 

allfourcy

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2012
6,335
2,456
113
Idk, I think TJ has evaluated what he’s got and is trying to make the best of it. He know he’s got some talent capped players and a couple projects with potential (enaruna and hunter). He said in the past that his coaching style is to play to his players’ strengths. Well, most of his guys can’t shoot a lick, etc.

I think that’s why when he was asked about the performance after the game he talked about improving on defense. He‘s probably pretty sure almost everyone on this team is offensively maxed out.

Thats why I can’t really get too angry with this slump. We’ve seen horrible offense all season, but the defense was able to overcome it until now. The only real improvement I expect to see is Hunter and Enaruna. Enaruna I’m not sure what his status is. . . seemed like he was nursing an injury Saturday?

I think you are right on the offensive deficiencies. I'm so jealous watching Tech score on KU tonight with so many shots within 2-6 ft. of the basket. Guys posting up, backing defenders down and able to score w/various shots and w/both hands. With our forwards and centers scoring so little, I don't see how we can win 7 conference games, great defense or not.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Rural and CyBobby

CyBobby

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2006
7,297
1,903
113
Central Iowa
I think you are right on the offensive deficiencies. I'm so jealous watching Tech score on KU tonight with so many shots within 2-6 ft. of the basket. Guys posting up, backing defenders down and able to score w/various shots and w/both hands. With our forwards and centers scoring so little, I don't see how we can win 7 conference games, great defense or not.
I AGREE...Winning 7 conference games with this anemic offense is going to be hard...but I have confidence that eventually TJ will get it figured out or JUST RECRUIT BETTER SHOOTERS & BETTER PLAYERS!
 

Cyclonepride

Thought Police
Staff member
Apr 11, 2006
90,817
45,087
113
51
A pineapple under the sea
www.oldschoolradical.com
I realize most teams are only 3 games in, and the book hasn't even come close to being written on the season yet. But the cyclones have forced me to think about this question a lot in 2 of the last 3 halves they've played (1st half vs OU today was really good, almost flukey good)

1. Oklahoma State and Kansas State are worse.
2. If anything was flukey, it was the TCU game. We just shot horribly there.
3. Not saying our offense sets the world on fire, but it is good enough with our defense if we play well.
 

Statefan10

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
May 20, 2019
15,234
16,536
113
We’ve gotten too comfortable in our offense I feel like. At the beginning of the year, we were snapping the ball around and our guys were running to spots with a purpose. Now it feels as if we’re running to spots because we’re supposed to be there. Because of that, guys are jumping passing lanes and our guys are just throwing the ball because the pass is “supposed” to go there.

Have to get back to the basics. Cuts need to be hard. Passes have to be crisp. If a guy overplays, pass fake and back door. Take what the defense gives you and stop being robotic. We also need to be stronger. Everyone. We’re allowing the other team to man handle us instead of us being the aggressor. Rip by the guy and take it to the rim.

The shots will or won’t fall, but you can create higher percentage shots by playing smarter, more aggressive basketball on offense.
 

Sigmapolis

Minister of Economy
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Aug 10, 2011
21,475
28,460
113
Washington, DC
We’ve gotten too comfortable in our offense I feel like. At the beginning of the year, we were snapping the ball around and our guys were running to spots with a purpose. Now it feels as if we’re running to spots because we’re supposed to be there. Because of that, guys are jumping passing lanes and our guys are just throwing the ball because the pass is “supposed” to go there.

Have to get back to the basics. Cuts need to be hard. Passes have to be crisp. If a guy overplays, pass fake and back door. Take what the defense gives you and stop being robotic. We also need to be stronger. Everyone. We’re allowing the other team to man handle us instead of us being the aggressor. Rip by the guy and take it to the rim.

The shots will or won’t fall, but you can create higher percentage shots by playing smarter, more aggressive basketball on offense.

That sounds less like a team that's forgotten how to play than just one that's tired.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quasistellar

madguy30

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2011
34,393
29,285
113
That sounds less like a team that's forgotten how to play than just one that's tired.

Or really doesn't have the abilities to do the things that would be great if they could.

OSU is another long athletic team so a simple cut isn't just something that's going to happen at least consistently, nor will just going to the basket hard since it will be harder to dictate the movement of the defender. And since shooting is not consistent a team really doesn't have to respect the cuts/kick out.

Agree with @Statefan10 though for what they do on offense--it's like the general action is so engrained that they can't get out of it. A red flag is that this dates back to December and is still a problem. Part of TCU's run that put it away after getting cut to 3 the other day was a result of a telegraphed pass.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Statefan10

Statefan10

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
May 20, 2019
15,234
16,536
113
That sounds less like a team that's forgotten how to play than just one that's tired.
I don’t think we’ve forgotten how to play. I also don’t think “All is lost” or “The end is near”.

We are a good team that’s playing poor offense right now against other good teams. When you do that, you usually lose. TJ and our staff have to tweak what our offense is and our guys need to play a bit looser. Not loose with the ball or lax, but we need to not be so uptight. At the beginning of the year we played with nothing to lose and it showed on the court. Guys were confident and letting it fly. Now, with expectations and teams knowing what they’re getting, we’re playing almost not to lose and not to miss.
 

Cyinthenorth

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Mar 29, 2013
9,153
5,299
113
33
Dubuque
Or really doesn't have the abilities to do the things that would be great if they could.

OSU is another long athletic team so a simple cut isn't just something that's going to happen at least consistently, nor will just going to the basket hard since it will be harder to dictate the movement of the defender. And since shooting is not consistent a team really doesn't have to respect the cuts/kick out.

Agree with @Statefan10 though for what they do on offense--it's like the general action is so engrained that they can't get out of it. A red flag is that this dates back to December and is still a problem. Part of TCU's run that put it away after getting cut to 3 the other day was a result of a telegraphed pass.
I've watch Oklahoma St a few times. They might be the fastest/most athletic team in the Big 12. But nobody on that roster can shoot. Tomorrow night could be on of those 50-45 type games.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2011
34,393
29,285
113
I've watch Oklahoma St a few times. They might be the fastest/most athletic team in the Big 12. But nobody on that roster can shoot. Tomorrow night could be on of those 50-45 type games.

Yeah and they don't look particularly well organized/coached. But if they just need to guard it can be a problem.

If ISU can find a few 3s and be patient on offense, i.e. not passing around the perimeter without making sure it's a clean look, etc. it will make a difference.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2011
34,393
29,285
113
I don’t think we’ve forgotten how to play. I also don’t think “All is lost” or “The end is near”.

We are a good team that’s playing poor offense right now against other good teams. When you do that, you usually lose. TJ and our staff have to tweak what our offense is and our guys need to play a bit looser. Not loose with the ball or lax, but we need to not be so uptight. At the beginning of the year we played with nothing to lose and it showed on the court. Guys were confident and letting it fly. Now, with expectations and teams knowing what they’re getting, we’re playing almost not to lose and not to miss.

Some of those turnovers Saturday were from lax approach, like dribbling around with seemingly no awareness of someone coming from behind. Not without effort...just kind of in a fog.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: quasistellar

Halincandenza

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2018
6,708
7,053
113
The offense isn't going to get better. There are going to be nights when guys hit shots and it looks better like when Kalscheur has a hot night or Grill does but just don't have enough skill on the offensive end. What needs to happen is to take better care of the ball and not settle for jump shots early in the clock. Also, need to start generating some steals and easy buckets in transition.
 

Cyinthenorth

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Mar 29, 2013
9,153
5,299
113
33
Dubuque
Yeah and they don't look particularly well organized/coached. But if they just need to guard it can be a problem.

If ISU can find a few 3s and be patient on offense, i.e. not passing around the perimeter without making sure it's a clean look, etc. it will make a difference.
My expectation is they'll be more focused tomorrow night than they were Saturday. But they're playing in Stillwater which outside of a few of the Hoiberg years has been our house of horrors. I anticipate a competitive game but not necessarily a Cyclone win.
 

VeloClone

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2010
41,145
28,295
113
Brooklyn Park, MN
...
One of the biggest issues we had Saturday was Hunter's lack of ball security. He's the x-factor because he's the only guy that can put the ball on the floor and get to the hoop. They need to develop his decision making in the lane. There is no time to think when you have the ball in your hand. Too often he's caught scanning when he should be driving with a plan. This leads to defenders picking his pocket. We desperately need him to develop his scoring inside and out.
...
I think you are half right. You don't have time to think, but you have to react. Just driving in and following a preset plan is a recipe for charges and turnovers. You have to have drilled enough that when the defender does X your immediate response is Y. But we have to cut Hunter some slack. The kid is a true freshman in the toughest conference in America.
 

BillBrasky4Cy

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 10, 2013
10,955
20,215
113
Our offense is by no means great and we all knew this team would struggle to score at times. We simply can't afford to have a collective off shooting night like we did on Saturday. That won't fly in this conference. I also think we need to try to play with more pace. We are way to content playing slow and settling for a half court offense. If you watched the Tech/KU game last night Kansas put an emphasis and getting up the court and trying not to allow Tech to get set defensively. IMO we need to try pushing the ball more and we HAVE to find more shots for Grill and Kunc.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: VeloClone

Halincandenza

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2018
6,708
7,053
113
1. Oklahoma State and Kansas State are worse.
2. If anything was flukey, it was the TCU game. We just shot horribly there.
3. Not saying our offense sets the world on fire, but it is good enough with our defense if we play well.
OSU is but not KSU.
 

Statefan10

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
May 20, 2019
15,234
16,536
113
Or really doesn't have the abilities to do the things that would be great if they could.

OSU is another long athletic team so a simple cut isn't just something that's going to happen at least consistently, nor will just going to the basket hard since it will be harder to dictate the movement of the defender. And since shooting is not consistent a team really doesn't have to respect the cuts/kick out.

Agree with @Statefan10 though for what they do on offense--it's like the general action is so engrained that they can't get out of it. A red flag is that this dates back to December and is still a problem. Part of TCU's run that put it away after getting cut to 3 the other day was a result of a telegraphed pass.
The result of the game wasn’t just missing shots, it was also not having the ability to take good shots at critical points because we were careless with the ball and TCU was able to get fast break layups because of that.

That starts with Hunter, who I know is a freshman but was extremely careless. It ends with Conditt who has almost been unplayable in this stretch of games. You can’t have a big man have that many turnovers.