What part of "potential" do you not understand ... Or do you just like to blurt off?
To help you ... "Bubu might stand to make" (IF he sues).
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Will Bubu See the floor this season?
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What part of "potential" do you not understand ... Or do you just like to blurt off?
To help you ... "Bubu might stand to make" (IF he sues).
If you're going to argue semantics, you did say WHEN he sues, which implies the definitive that it will happen.
Ok. It is clear to me but I will concede the syntax point (given finger tapping on my I phone and economizing on words) ... I still think the Prez is on shaky legal grounds ... Especially when it comes to this whole Bubu matter. IF sued, it will be messy.
Enough already. My purpose in starting this thread was just to ask if Bubu plays this year. I should have know better that this would evolve into another debacle of a discussion. Mod's.....please close my thread. This has gotten too ridiculous.
I agree. I don't see Bubu wanting to re-hash the incident in detail in open court. I think he moves on.
I can see Bubu playing in certain situations at the end of the game when we absolutely need a stop. Although his game is sure to be rusty, he is still likely to be one of the best defenders on the team, especially against big/strong guards.
You are just one person. Everyone sees it different. I actually think we could use him against faster guards at the end of games.
from singsing: Legally I don't know all the facts as to what Bubu did to get himself in this situation, but enough people with character I respect do, and they're not happy he's representing Iowa State.
My response: I'm not as confident in the character of some of the officials as you are. Were the decisions made based on politics, big money donors, actual facts in the case, or some other reason? Those same "people of character" allowed a convicted criminal and an accused individual to participate in athletics with only a game or two suspension. Bubu served a half season suspension even though all charges against him were dropped. Additionally, an administrative judge ruled that the ISU conduct violation charges against him were unfounded. How much more should someone be punished when both criminal complaint and conduct violation complaint were found to be without merit by impartial entities?
Read what the appeals court judge wrote when he stayed the dismissal of Bubu from the team.
You entered this thread with the top quote, and now you are making comparisons to Sam Mack? The issue was never whether or not Bubu had sex with the woman; he never claimed he didn't. The issue was whether or not it was consensual. You may have come from a different era (as presumed by the Sam Mack reference), but gals & guys hooking up for one-nighters is a common occurence. And (newsflash) it's not always the guy's idea. Legal? Yes. Ethically fragrant? Matter of opinion.
You then segue into a condemnation of the courts and media, leading me to believe there might be some negative bias against the court system behind your rant. Someone (actually, several someones) sat in the room with the accuser and did hear something ethically wrong...she lied and falsified evidence of a forcible rape. You trust people you originally intimated that you "know", but now seem to know "about" more than personal friendship, people whose jobs are political in nature, and trust their presumably impeccable judgement in legal/moral matters, yet you don't trust an administrative judge or an appeals court judge who have years of legal experience and are presumably impartial.
Now you claim to "know" the coach, and say that he has strong ethics, and he will never let Bubu play. For the record, Bubu played for about half of the 2012/2013 season after the charges were dropped, WITH the approval of CFH.
Where there's smoke, there's fire? You are clearly arguing from an emotional point of view.
My response: I'm not as confident in the character of some of the officials as you are. Were the decisions made based on politics, big money donors, actual facts in the case, or some other reason? Those same "people of character" allowed a convicted criminal and an accused individual to participate in athletics with only a game or two suspension. Bubu served a half season suspension even though all charges against him were dropped. Additionally, an administrative judge ruled that the ISU conduct violation charges against him were unfounded. How much more should someone be punished when both criminal complaint and conduct violation complaint were found to be without merit by impartial entities?
Read what the appeals court judge wrote when he stayed the dismissal of Bubu from the team.
You entered this thread with the top quote, and now you are making comparisons to Sam Mack? The issue was never whether or not Bubu had sex with the woman; he never claimed he didn't. The issue was whether or not it was consensual. You may have come from a different era (as presumed by the Sam Mack reference), but gals & guys hooking up for one-nighters is a common occurence. And (newsflash) it's not always the guy's idea. Legal? Yes. Ethically fragrant? Matter of opinion.
You then segue into a condemnation of the courts and media, leading me to believe there might be some negative bias against the court system behind your rant. Someone (actually, several someones) sat in the room with the accuser and did hear something ethically wrong...she lied and falsified evidence of a forcible rape. You trust people you originally intimated that you "know", but now seem to know "about" more than personal friendship, people whose jobs are political in nature, and trust their presumably impeccable judgement in legal/moral matters, yet you don't trust an administrative judge or an appeals court judge who have years of legal experience and are presumably impartial.
Now you claim to "know" the coach, and say that he has strong ethics, and he will never let Bubu play. For the record, Bubu played for about half of the 2012/2013 season after the charges were dropped, WITH the approval of CFH.
Where there's smoke, there's fire? You are clearly arguing from an emotional point of view.
You can be right with the criminal code and still be in violation of the student code. If Bubu admitted to a violation of the student code anywhere along the line to a university official, they would be obligated to deal with it, or risk the student code being totally meaningless. I realize most students probably already believe that to be the case, but I am sure administrators believe differently, and with good reason.
If there were evidence (texts, photos, or an admission by the party) of an admitted violation of the student code--i.e. taking advantage of an inebriated student--the university would not necessarily look the other way, despite the knowledge that it happens all the time elsewhere on campus. Understanding that, a university official might attempt to create a punishment that allows the student to stay on campus under scholarship but take something else of value away in return, his position on the team. I would expect the head basketball coach would have input on this decision, and might even agree with it if he wanted the kid--by all accounts a good one--to finish his degree at ISU. This attempt to allow the student to stay at school to complete his degree becomes the problem.
Do I know that this is what happened? Of course not. But it is much more plausible than suggestions by some that big money donors or the AD and university president have it in for one of the basketball players. They just don't cite student code violations without proof of cheating, misconduct, or whatever.
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You can be right with the criminal code and still be in violation of the student code. If Bubu admitted to a violation of the student code anywhere along the line to a university official, they would be obligated to deal with it, or risk the student code being totally meaningless. I realize most students probably already believe that to be the case, but I am sure administrators believe differently, and with good reason.
If there were evidence (texts, photos, or an admission by the party) of an admitted violation of the student code--i.e. taking advantage of an inebriated student--the university would not necessarily look the other way, despite the knowledge that it happens all the time elsewhere on campus. Understanding that, a university official might attempt to create a punishment that allows the student to stay on campus under scholarship but take something else of value away in return, his position on the team. I would expect the head basketball coach would have input on this decision, and might even agree with it if he wanted the kid--by all accounts a good one--to finish his degree at ISU. This attempt to allow the student to stay at school to complete his degree becomes the problem.
Well put!!!
Do I know that this is what happened? Of course not. But it is much more plausible than suggestions by some that big money donors or the AD and university president have it in for one of the basketball players. They just don't cite student code violations without proof of cheating, misconduct, or whatever.
Great point. He admits he doesn't "know all the facts," but chooses to believe in "people with character." I assume he things the prosecutor, the ALJ, and the district, all of whom heard testimony, and/or investigated or reviewed the facts in this case concluded the evidence just isn't there, are not "people of character." (The ALJ heard over 10 hours of testimony.)
I have stated this before but if this were Scott Christopherson being so accused, I doubt these people would similar opinions against him They would be railing against those who would think him guilty despite all credible evidence to the contrary. Try and imagine Scott's face in place of Bubu.
I'm obviously debating an issue with someone with far lessor life experience and moral character than my own so I'm ending this discussion with you...at this point a may call my good friend Steve Hoiberg in Omaha and ask Fred's opinion on this....perhaps you'd like to "know" the color of Fred's parents dining room...you continue in life thinking it's ok to take advantage of drunk woman...I'm sure you'll go far...what we're dealing with here is a complete ethical degeneration of a society.
I trust our coach but not our university officials. Anybody who has a job knows if a company boss (Leath) is upset about something the rest of the subordinates cower down. Now I am not saying Hoiberg is cowering down but I do think Hoiberg is just a very respectful person and he is going by his bosses wishes to try and bring this media circus to a halt. Do I believe that Fred needs to? Emphatically NO. He is the face of the university and it would be an absolute disaster to lose him. But my earlier point, Bubu is probably our quickest on ball defender and he should have been in the game to try and keep Staten out of the driving lanes and the paint.
ZERO evidence from either football or basketball that if a player is on the team, it is NOT 100% the coaches call to play or not play. ZERO.
Bubu plays or does not play because CFH puts him in or does not put him in. There is no evidence of JP of Leath opining on substitution patterns beyond your own hope that it is so.
Does this really need to be a weekly thread? Everyone agrees that not all of the information was or could be released. But there are many what ifs, many which were stated already:
- What if the girl is the daughter of someone of staff or in the administration?
- What if the the girl is related to a big donor who threatened to pull their donations?
- What if Bubu admitted that the girl was drunk or there are pictures/video/testimony to prove this?
Finally, what if this were your daughter, sister, cousin, niece, close friend? Would you still argue with the same ferver, that just because Bubu and another guy had sex with her after she had been drinking, that Bubu is the victim in all of this, and he should get to play?
- What if the girl is the daughter of someone of staff or in the administration?
- What if the the girl is related to a big donor who threatened to pull their donations?
- What if Bubu admitted that the girl was drunk or there are pictures/video/testimony to prove this?
Finally, what if this were your daughter, sister, cousin, niece, close friend? Would you still argue with the same ferver, that just because Bubu and another guy had sex with her after she had been drinking, that Bubu is the victim in all of this, and he should get to play?
I can't believe I didn't know Fred has a brother. Is he close to the same age as Fred?
I have a hunch this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what is student code of conduct rule on this? Is it that having sex with someone legally drunk automatically deemed non-consensual? Or is it drunk to a point where they are unable to make a decision. There have been plenty of times when I have been drunk and I made dumb choices I wouldn't make if I was sober. But those actions in my mind would be consensual because I was still self aware of the situation. I have also been drunk to the point of blacking out or lacking memory of an incident and if something happened to me I would definitely consider it non consensual. With that said if a dumb choice while drunk can be deemed as being unable to consent, then its kind of obvious Mr. Palo would be guilty.
There is also the whole matter that she already fabricated evidence and it to me begs the question of her credibility in the situation which is why the judges seem to be always ruling in favor of Mr. Palo on this. But if the school has a much stricter standard on the definition of consent while inebriated then Mr. Palo should just stop complaining and be happy he at least kept his scholarship.
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