What's the problem with offense besides Tom Manning?

[cygrads]

His footwork looked better in the combine and his arm strength actually got bumped up considerably. I don't know what sort of workouts they had him doing, but it made a big difference.

My sister in law has a couple of nieces who went to ISU the last few years and they said Purdy was a party boy. So maybe he got more serious in his prep for the draft thus the improvement??

I think I remember Jeff Hornecek in college had a sideways spin on his jump shot and when he got in the NBA he fixed it. Someone asked him why he didn't fix it when Johnny wanted him to and he said Johnny didn't pay him. So maybe similar situations??

 

[Jer]

I think our quick developing runs have been excellent for us this year. Brock's run that he got hurt on was a quick developing run and he gained good yardage.

It's the running plays where we have the RB shuffling down the line that are getting blown up in the backfield almost 100% of the time.

Absolutely agree. On both run and pass plays, we don't have the strength off the block to allow for anything that doesn't happen quickly, or we have to make a big tradeoff with max protect.

I think our best passing has been with either quick snap and throws or when we purposely set up for a deep route with a lot of protection help. It's all the short and mid yardage routes that are designed to take too long to get open that kill us. Especially with receivers that aren't incredibly dynamic - outside of X.

For the running game, we again don't have the strength to do anything but quick burst runs so moving laterally just kills any chance we have. I haven't looked at yardage after contact stats, but it doesn't seem like we have any backs that can really shake off defenders behind the LOS.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Why did he magically become better after he left ISU then? That's what I'd like to know. Because if only 3 months with an actually competent qb coach did that, you have to wonder.

Because pro players literally only work only on football in college you only work on football for a small amount of time comparatively.

 

[isufbcurt]

Be honest with me, do you think Purdy got better as the years went on?
I think even CW said that Purdy's best year was his Freshman/Sophomore year. Something happened with him after that and I think some of that can be contributed to coaching.
Purdy was getting NFL looks and hype during his freshman/sophomore years and then his draft stock dropped after that.

You do realize that when a QB or any other player is a starter for 4 years there is lots of game film out on him. Opposing coaches can easily make up schemes to defend him.

Think of it this way, when Purdy came into the Okie State game and did all the pump fakes, after a few games and teams seeing those pump fakes they quit working because coaches told their players not to worry about the pump fake and go him him.

 

[stewart092284]

CMC should take another job if fans get to make coaching decisions. If you don’t like the way CMC runs the program then fire him. CMC has total control of the program. If you want to take that control away, he will leave. And I wouldn’t blame him. You have to either accept that CMC makes all decisions. Fire CMC. Then we can return to our traditional 2 to 3 wins per year. And get dropped from P5 status. And lose games again by 30 points or more on a regular basis.

So your first part I totally agree with. CMC or potentially if JP wanted to have input make changes, no one else. Especially not fans. You are one million correct there.

I will disagree a little bit that if CMC leaves we automatically go back to winning 2-3 wins per year if he leaves. I don't think its quite that simple. I'd like to think we have a better infrastructure and system in place to prevent that from happening - which is not in any way meant as a slight on CMC, the man is amazing 9.9 out of 10 but I don't think we drop off the face of the earth if he were to ever leave.



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what I will say is this - coaches SHOULD always take a hard look at their staffs especially at the end of the season but sometimes even during the season. Blind loyalty is an admirable trait but it may not help a program take the next step.

 

[Cyrealist]

CMC will resign if you insist that you can determine who his coaches will be. You won’t have to fire him.

We lost a freaking game. By 3 points. To a team that is undefeated and rated Top 25. Upsets happen. We had our best 2 RB’s out. And failed to execute the plays that were there. Campbell has shown me enough success so far that I will let him sort it out. I am sure he is not happy and is working on it.

We're only averaging 112 yards per game rushing. Our running backs shouldn't have to break tackles and have guys hanging off them to get 4 yards. If we're not going to commit to running the ball, then we should be running an Air Raid. Those are just facts.

 

[stewart092284]

S

Just like when Coach Campbell got rid of our old strength and conditioning coach after the Notre Dame game. We were manhandled that game and coach made the right choice.

Offense and Special Teams have been inconsistent year over year, our defense is always pretty damn consistent. Is it coaching that's the big difference there or is it players? Because I think its generally pretty well known that Heacock is a wizard on defense. So why are we defending coaches who aren't up to the same standard of Coach Heacock?

In some regards I will say this - defense certainly isn't easy but it is hard to compare it to coaching offense. Its kind of like comparing an orange to an apple. Both fruit and round yes but not a great comparison.

We don't have a special teams coach - or at least special teams only coach and I don't think we have had one so there's no one really to remove in that regard. The guy we have is an analyst who, unless rules are broken, can't actually interact much if at all with players or coach. He's a glorified GA basically. Experienced coaches take those jobs for a couple reasons, one for connections with larger schools and also potentially to rehab a career.

As for offense - the last few years we haven't been bad on offense though. Top 1/3 of the country so its hard to justify making a move at that point. If the rest of this year goes like this, than that's different. Right now I think there is a schematic failing on offense based on our current personal (including injuries in that). If we don't adjust and progress thru the season it may be very likely we see a change but again - that is only a CMC thing or in an extreme vein a JP decision

 

[Rick]

My honest opinion is that I think people way overreact.

We lost Purdy and Breece, that was pretty much all of our production from last year. We replaced them with Dekkers and Brock, who are making their first college starts and barely played since High School. Then add in the TE's we graduated. So yes there is going to be a huge drop off.

My only concerns with the offense are:
1. Not trying to establish the running game in a consistent manner
2. Slow developing running plays when we do decide to run the ball
3. Slow developing route trees that don't appear to compliment each other

Didn't Bruns point out our receivers are all bunched up or was it someone else. I think if we can get our receivers to separate from each other it opens things up more. How many times did Decker throw a pass and there were 3 or more blue jerseys around the ball. Beyond X most of the receivers are not seasoned and are being coached during film to to understand what the defense is giving them and take advantage of that. I just don't think we have enough live football time between Deckers and the WR group.

 

[Jer]

Didn't Bruns point out our receivers are all bunched up or was it someone else. I think if we can get our receivers to separate from each other it opens things up more. How many times did Decker throw a pass and there were 3 or more blue jerseys around the ball. Beyond X most of the receivers are not seasoned and are being coached during film to to understand what the defense is giving them and take advantage of that. I just don't think we have enough live football time between Deckers and the WR group.

It’s unfortunately very easy to see our receivers bunched up more often than not. Compounding that is they aren’t getting a lot of separation and we like to run a lot of routes that don’t seem to utilize the individual strengths of each receiver. When you add in that most of our routes take a long time to develop, it’s a recipe for a rushed pass into tight coverage, a sack, or a throw away (best case scenario).

A good micro example of this is the crossing route we run seemingly everyother down. It takes a while to develop and it puts about 8 guys in a 10-yard box. Not only that, but our chance of getting anything but those initial 3-4 yards is very minimal.

 

[Stormin]

Be honest with me, do you think Purdy got better as the years went on?
I think even CW said that Purdy's best year was his Freshman/Sophomore year. Something happened with him after that and I think some of that can be contributed to coaching.
Purdy was getting NFL looks and hype during his freshman/sophomore years and then his draft stock dropped after that.

I know the pump fake didn’t work as well once teams caught on. I think Hakeem Butler was a big factor early. Just throw it up. He came down with it.

 

[CyBobby]

It is time for CMC to look at making some coaching changes....OL, QB, OC, and ST.....start there.
Maybe, he needs some outside help, a successful former or even present coach....college or NFL either one....it's evident we've become predictable, one dimensional.
This offense will not get it done in this conference.

I AGREE with the OL and OC positions

 

[VeloClone]

How do you know he got better? From watching a few plays in the pre-season?

Because he has to have gotten a lot better to fit the narrative that he wasn't a good QB at ISU and didn't belong in the NFL.

 

[madguy30]

I think our quick developing runs have been excellent for us this year. Brock's run that he got hurt on was a quick developing run and he gained good yardage.

It's the running plays where we have the RB shuffling down the line that are getting blown up in the backfield almost 100% of the time.

That's what I'm seeing.

Even when KU was teeing off, ISU was getting at least some push and movement forward on straight quick stuff. Like it's OK to chip away at it to then play off it. The response on play calling or scheme seems to be 'well we didn't get 8 yards there so we have to pass now'.

 

[isufbcurt]

That's what I'm seeing.

Even when KU was teeing off, ISU was getting at least some push and movement forward. Like it's OK to chip away at it to then play off it. The response on play calling or scheme seems to be 'well we didn't get 8 yards there so we have to pass now'.

That is what frustrates me. Keep pounding them with the 3-5 yards gains and wear them out.

We come out have a good run, then throw for the next 5 plays, then try a slow developing run play and lose yards, then we have to pass.

 

[madguy30]

That is what frustrates me. Keep pounding them with the 3-5 yards gains and wear them out.

We come out have a good run, then throw for the next 5 plays, then try a slow developing run play and lose yards, then we have to pass.

I've only said this about 78 times but the slowing things down after there's a bit of pace/rhythm in these situations is bad too imo.

You get the defense on their heals a bit, you keep them there instead of giving them a chance to get settled back in.

 

[dtISU]

The coach at K-State is in his third year...and kicking @ss.
The coach at KU is in is second year...and kicking @ass.
The coach at TCU is in his first year...and kicking @ass.

We have quality players and solid coaches. What gives?

 

[Jer]

That's what I'm seeing.

Even when KU was teeing off, ISU was getting at least some push and movement forward on straight quick stuff. Like it's OK to chip away at it to then play off it. The response on play calling or scheme seems to be 'well we didn't get 8 yards there so we have to pass now'.

Unfortunately agree.

Quick developing plays do several things that we could greatly benefit from.

1 – Give your young QB experience and confidence.
2 – Take pressure off your weak O-Line.
3 – Makes up for the lack of dynamic playmakers in the TE and WR groups.
4 – Take away the need for your young QB to make lengthy reads while getting pressure from all directions.
5 – Allows for your runners to start getting downfield without your line having to maintain protection.
6 – Negates some of the impact from having relatively weak TE and RB blockers.

We know the line struggles both with providing adequate pass protection and getting enough penetration. Shifting to quicker developing plays allows us to negate that to some degree while still mixing up run and pass plays.

We really like to repeatedly hit our heads against the wall doing the same thing over and over by playing to our weaknesses.

 

[BryceC]

Do you think Joel Gordon has done a good job as passing game coordinator?

Yes. unequivocally, yes.

This year is a struggle... but any reasonable person knew it would be.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

Unfortunately agree.

Quick developing plays do several things that we could greatly benefit from.

1 – Give your young QB experience and confidence.
2 – Take pressure off your weak O-Line.
3 – Makes up for the lack of dynamic playmakers in the TE and WR groups.
4 – Take away the need for your young QB to make lengthy reads while getting pressure from all directions.
5 – Allows for your runners to start getting downfield without your line having to maintain protection.
6 – Negates some of the impact from having relatively weak TE and RB blockers.

We know the line struggles both with providing adequate pass protection and getting enough penetration. Shifting to quicker developing plays allows us to negate that to some degree while still mixing up run and pass plays.

We really like to repeatedly hit our heads against the wall doing the same thing over and over by playing to our weaknesses.

Agree - was thinking these same things as I read through the thread. You summarized things perfectly.

 

[StPaulCyclone]

Why did he magically become better after he left ISU then? That's what I'd like to know. Because if only 3 months with an actually competent qb coach did that, you have to wonder.

Maybe he was more competent than some people give him credit for before he left ISU. Winningest QB, tons of records, helped this team punch above its weight. Some tend to focus on just the negatives.