V6 or 4 cylinder

[dmclone]

I was told when buying my first new car that a V6 would be nice for driving on interstates, etc. I loved having the extra power and I can definately tell the difference when driving a rental car with a 4 cylinder. I doubt I will ever buy a car without a V6.

Don't limit yourself or judge all motors on rental cars. I've had everything from a 100 horsepower 4cyl to a 500 horsepower 427 V8 and there are both good and bad engines with each type of engine. I'd take the 200hp turbocharged 4cyl in my VW GTI over the 350 I had in a monte carlo, the 6 cyl I had in a fiero gt, etc.

I've only had one truly underpowered vehicle and that was a first year Honda CRV that you had to really wring out to get above 80 mph. It was actually more of a gearing issue than a lack of power.

What a lot of people don't realize is that it's common for family cars of today to run 14 second 1/4 miles. This is faster than those Trans Ams that were in Smokey and the Bandit and had 400 cubic inch engines.

A Subura WRX with a turbocharged flat four will be knocking on the door of a legendary Chevelle LS6 with 450hp in the 1/4 mile and will flat out kill it 0-60.

 

[Cydkar]

No, it's just taught from day 1 in driver's ed that on 4 lane roads you stay in the right hand lane unless 1. passing 2. prepping to make or making a left hand turn. Besides, the more cars that sit in the left hand lane that don't have to, the odds are the more cars that have to wait while someone is trying to make a left hand turn when a turn lane isn't available. I find that MUCH MORE frustrating than having to sitting in the right lane at a red light waiting for someone to make a right hand turn, especially since those waiting on a red light do not have the right of way anyway. Making a right on red is a convenience, not a "right".

I'm talking about when there's a dedicated left turn lane and they are in the right lane and aren't even going to turn right. I never stay in the right lane if I know I'll be blocking it at a red light. And if I do I creep up so people can get by. Even more people don't bother to do that. Granted, I don't expect them to if it's unsafe but so many times they could move a couple feet and everybody behind them could go. That would require looking in their rearview mirror which must be a "convenience" as well.

 

[cmoneyr]

I'm talking about when there's a dedicated left turn lane and they are in the right lane and aren't even going to turn right. I never stay in the right lane if I know I'll be blocking it at a red light. And if I do I creep up so people can get by. Even more people don't bother to do that. Granted, I don't expect them to if it's unsafe but so many times they could move a couple feet and everybody behind them could go. That would require looking in their rearview mirror which must be a "convenience" as well.

If there isn't a right turn lane the farthest right lane doesn't automatically assume the role. If you're in front and turning right, you can go, but nobody should have to get over just because they're going straight.

 

[pulse]

What a lot of people don't realize is that it's common for family cars of today to run 14 second 1/4 miles. This is faster than those Trans Ams that were in Smokey and the Bandit and had 400 cubic inch engines..

:biglaugh: I saw one of those Bandit black Trans Ams yesterday! Reminded me of Joe Dirt. Thing was noisy and kickin' out nasty exhaust. Fix up that POS!

 

[TxCycloneFan]

:biglaugh: I saw one of those Bandit black Trans Ams yesterday! Reminded me of Joe Dirt. Thing was noisy and kickin' out nasty exhaust. Fix up that POS!

If you saw it in Texas,

Smoking Vehicle Program 1-800-453-SMOG

I used to work for the agency that administers this program. We had a co-worker that had a mosquito-killer truck. We always threatend to turn him in.

 

[herbicide]

The 6 cylinder engine is a "naturally balanced" engine. A 4 requires added mechanical features to balance the engine and keep it from shaking.

When I took IC engines as a Senior at ISU, my professor (Van Gerpen) said that the V6 Diesel engine was the most naturally perfect engine you could get.

With all that said, I own a boxer flat 4 gas engine with a turbo and intercooler. So, it is all a matter of preference.

Cliff Claven checking in, your professor is full of it.

The only naturally balanced engine is a 60 degree V-12. An inline 6 is closer than a v-6.

I am a motor guy, I can back this up if you like...

 

[jumbopackage]

As many others have said, it depends on the car and the engines.

Saab makes great Turbocharged 4 cylinders, and crap V-6s.

Generally, I'll take a modern 4 cylinder engine over a comparable V-6 almost any day of the week. In my opinion, the V-6 is more of a marketing tool than it is a legitimate performance enhancement for most vehicles. The V-6 engine is a crutch for companies that can't produce a really good I-4.

Now, if you're looking for nothing more than performance, there is really no replacement for displacement. All the turbos and intercoolers in the world won't get you more cubic inches, and there is something to be said for that as well.

Also, an underpowered 4 cylinder car can be worse on fuel than a reasonably powered V-6, so keep that in mind. If the difference in horsepower between the two is less than, say, 20 or so, I'd say you're better off with the 4 cylinder though.

 

[CyinCo]

Cliff Claven checking in, your professor is full of it.

The only naturally balanced engine is a 60 degree V-12. An inline 6 is closer than a v-6.

I am a motor guy, I can back this up if you like...

This was over ten years ago. But I recall him saying the V-6 is balanced. Because of pistons moving in opposite directions at the same time and the arrangement, there are no moments or in line forces out of balance.

I still have my IC book somewhere but I doubt I have my notes.

Van Gerpen is still on staff. I could e-mail him and see what he has to say.

 

[herbicide]

This was over ten years ago. But I recall him saying the V-6 is balanced. Because of pistons moving in opposite directions at the same time and the arrangement, there are no moments or in line forces out of balance.

I still have my IC book somewhere but I doubt I have my notes.

Van Gerpen is still on staff. I could e-mail him and see what he has to say.

Here are a few links, the first one shows the best if you ask me. I guess I stand corrected (a little), a 180 degree v-12 is also naturally balanced.

Torsional Characteristics of Piston Engine Output, by EPI Inc.

www.e31.net

 

[illinoiscyclone]

. I'd take the 200hp turbocharged 4cyl in my VW GTI over the 350 I had in a monte carlo, the 6 cyl I had in a fiero gt, etc.

you say this now, until you have to work on the engine in that piece. my cousin had one, and them things are packed in there TIGHT.

also, parts can be pricey. his clutch went out and he was looking at like 1g to have a new one put in, when for all he knew it could have just been on of the hydraulic cylinders.

 

[dmclone]

you say this now, until you have to work on the engine in that piece. my cousin had one, and them things are packed in there TIGHT.

also, parts can be pricey. his clutch went out and he was looking at like 1g to have a new one put in, when for all he knew it could have just been on of the hydraulic cylinders.

I've never owned a car that required that type of work and if I did someone else would be doing it regardless if it was a GTI or a Camaro.

 

[iowaboy]

With all due respect I was going to give you some credible information..... But by buying new I will not promote that venture as its a terrible waste of hard-earned money. Terrible decision and certainly yours to make, but I can't in good conscience pile on to that fumble.....

 

[anticyclonic]

A Subura WRX with a turbocharged flat four will be knocking on the door of a legendary Chevelle LS6 with 450hp in the 1/4 mile and will flat out kill it 0-60.

Apples to oranges. Anything that has been built recently has advantage of technology and that car which weighs 2300 pounds has an automatic advantage over a loaded Chevelle that will come in at 2 tons. If you want to talk about a fast car from the factory, it was the 64' Ford Thunderbolt, sub 12 second 1/4 mile with single exhaust with no aerodynamics and no technology.

 

[Cyclone06]

With all due respect I was going to give you some credible information..... But by buying new I will not promote that venture as its a terrible waste of hard-earned money. Terrible decision and certainly yours to make, but I can't in good conscience pile on to that fumble.....

New works out to be damn near the same price as used with what I am looking at (2009 Malibu 2LT), just the new has a 36K warranty where the pre-owned goes up to 48K. I'm not dead set on new, so I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Lots of good info. here. Thanks everyone, keep it coming.

 

[dmclone]

Apples to oranges. Anything that has been built recently has advantage of technology and that car which weighs 2300 pounds has an automatic advantage over a loaded Chevelle that will come in at 2 tons. If you want to talk about a fast car from the factory, it was the 64' Ford Thunderbolt, sub 12 second 1/4 mile with single exhaust with no aerodynamics and no technology.

Your right about the technology but the weight thing is a little different. The WRX weighs about 800 pounds less.

 

[iowaboy]

A ford 427 never had the power that the 426 Chrysler hemi had in its best day. At daytona it was so bad that the 426 Hemis had to de-tune them or be banned as they were winning EVERYTHING! I love muh Fords in the day..... But thise 426 Hemi's ruled.

 

[HOTDON]

Actually, the 3.8L V6 isn't newish - it's been around for quite awhile and has as good of a rep as the LS series V8 (just obviously less powered). Granted, I wouldn't want a V6 in my G8, but the Supercharged 3.8L V6 is very nice in my Grand Prix.

The V6 in the G8 is the 3.6 "high feature" V6 that can be found in the Traverse/Outlook/Acadia/Enclave, Malibu/Aura/G6, CTS (in regular and direct injection variants) and soon in the entry level Camaro (also DI). I'm sure a few others that I'm forgetting. Seems like a winner (or at least worthy of it's foreign competition), but GM is still better at pushrods that OHC. The 3.8 was a great example of that. It's been around for decades. I've had two, both supercharged, over the last 10 years. Hearty, robust engines, so-so transmissions. Shame to see it go.

 

[HOTDON]

This was over ten years ago. But I recall him saying the V-6 is balanced. Because of pistons moving in opposite directions at the same time and the arrangement, there are no moments or in line forces out of balance.

I still have my IC book somewhere but I doubt I have my notes.

Van Gerpen is still on staff. I could e-mail him and see what he has to say.

Let me help you both win. It depends on the angle between the cylinder banks. A 60 degree V6 is naturally balanced, a 90 degree V6 (which is more common) is not naturally balanced. The 3100 in my old Grand Prix is a 60 degree engine. The 3800SC in my wife's Grand Prix is a 90 degree engine.

With a 60 degree separation angle, the crank throw angle is 120 degrees and is there for internally balanced. I'm guessing the V12 mentioned earlier is the same thing with a crank throw angle of 60 degrees.

 

[herbicide]

The V6 in the G8 is the 3.6 "high value" V6 that can be found in the Traverse/Outlook/Acadia/Enclave, Malibu/Aura/G6, CTS (in regular and direct injection variants) and soon in the entry level Camaro (also DI). I'm sure a few others that I'm forgetting. Seems like a winner (or at least worthy of it's foreign competition), but GM is still better at pushrods that OHC. The 3.8 was a great example of that. It's been around for decades. I've had two, both supercharged, over the last 10 years. Hearty, robust engines, so-so transmissions. Shame to see it go.

I have a 2000 Olds Intrigue with the 3.5 V6 version of the Northstar. Is the 3.6 the 'new' version of that motor? I'll take my 3.5 any day over the 3.8 for power, noise, smoothness, and mileage.

 

[jumbopackage]

you say this now, until you have to work on the engine in that piece. my cousin had one, and them things are packed in there TIGHT.

also, parts can be pricey. his clutch went out and he was looking at like 1g to have a new one put in, when for all he knew it could have just been on of the hydraulic cylinders.

Slapping a tiny engine in a small engine bay is one of the reasons that American cars are so damn ugly.
Let's face it, not everyone wants to work on their own vehicles, and as long as it doesn't break, there isn't any reason to have to fix it in the first place.

Parts for anything can be pricey. I'm sure the guy I just saw driving down Railroad ave with gallons of coolant spilling out the tailpipe of his 5 year old Malibu will feel the same way.