UNI - Gary Rima

[Rhoadhoused]

Fun fact: UNI plays 2 road games all year vs top 30 kenpom rated teams

ISU's past two road opponents fit that criteria.

Also, ISU's next two road opponents fit it.

And there are/were 3 other road games on ISU's schedule that are in the top 30 as well.

 

[UNIPantherFan]

#94 RPI Illinois State hanging with invincible Panthers early. Might be an entertaining game tonight.

That lasted about 10 minutes... same thing my wife usually tells me

 

[bustamoveisu]

Rima displays passion for what he does; however, he has thrown a "Brian Williams" at his listeners.. For example, he claimed he quit the sport of wrestling because he had cauliflower ear. That is ridiculous!!

 

[DhaCheann]

You all are being a bunch of Gary's in this thread. (did you see what I did there?)

 

[ISUChippewa]

Butler... those Butler teams earned their way there by winning games in the tournament. They weren't gifted high seeds they didn't deserve based on a poor resume. Butler was an 8 seed in the 2011 Tournament and a 5 seed in the 2010 Tournament.

That Kentucky team had 10 losses and hadn't put together a decent stretch of basketball all season until they got to the NCAA Tournament.

A few more examples...

2010-2011... San Diego State they finished 32-2, #45 SOS, they played 1 RPI top 25 team all year, and they get a #2 seed. They play 2 mid-majors before facing UCONN who knocked them out.

2010-2011... BYU they finished 30-4, #20 SOS, they played 3 RPI top 25 teams all year, and they get a #3 seed. They play 2 mid-majors before facing Florida who knocked them out.

2009-2010... New Mexico finished 29-4, #70 SOS, they played 4 RPI top 25 teams all year, and they got a #3 seed. They beat a mid major before facing #11 seed Washington who knocked them out.

2008-2009 Memphis finished 31-3, #62 SOS, they played 4 RPI top 25 teams all year, they got a #2 seed. They beat a mid-major then #10 seed Maryland before facing Mizzou who knocked them out.

Okay, everything you've written is correct and accurate, and I respect that you spent time on the research and did your homework, but I guess I honestly don't see what your end point is.

No more mid-majors in the tournament, no matter how well they do in the regular season? Only Power 5 teams in the tournament since they play the toughest schedules?

I'm honestly not trying to put words in your mouth (or whatever the posting equivalent is), but I don't know what argument you're trying to win here.

 

[chuckd4735]

Isn't UNI that school the wears girl colors?

 

[HFCS]

Okay, everything you've written is correct and accurate, and I respect that you spent time on the research and did your homework, but I guess I honestly don't see what your end point is.

No more mid-majors in the tournament, no matter how well they do in the regular season? Only Power 5 teams in the tournament since they play the toughest schedules?

I'm honestly not trying to put words in your mouth (or whatever the posting equivalent is), but I don't know what argument you're trying to win here.

Allow me to try...

Over the past decade or so the mid-major teams have done more damage when they come in under the radar, ticked off, with a chip on their shoulder as 5 seeds or lower, sometimes much lower, than they have when they were treated as top 10 teams all season without beating anyone good.

The teams that get high seeds and hype all year from gaudy records against weak schedules typically get knocked off in their second game. The ones that scare the crap out of everyone and kill giants are the George Masons, the UNI Farukmanesh (sp?) and even the Butler teams that did not have great seeds. They do this because they are disrespected and have a chip...when a New Mexico is top ten all year playing lower competition they don't handle the bump up in talent well feeling like they are already totally awesome all season.

Of course just because the MVC duo are going to be ranked about 10-12 doesn't mean they'll be seeded as a 2 or 3.

 

[cfsivert]

Allow me to try...

Over the past decade or so the mid-major teams have done more damage when they come in under the radar, ticked off, with a chip on their shoulder as 5 seeds or lower, sometimes much lower, than they have when they were treated as top 10 teams all season without beating anyone good.

The teams that get high seeds and hype all year from gaudy records against weak schedules typically get knocked off in their second game. The ones that scare the crap out of everyone and kill giants are the George Masons, the UNI Farukmanesh (sp?) and even the Butler teams that did not have great seeds. They do this because they are disrespected and have a chip...when a New Mexico is top ten all year playing lower competition they don't handle the bump up in talent well feeling like they are already totally awesome all season.

Of course just because the MVC duo are going to be ranked about 10-12 doesn't mean they'll be seeded as a 2 or 3.

You're placing this on the mid-respected Mid-Major having a chip, but it also could involve the blue-blood failing to really respect their lowly opponent. If UNI wins out (xWSU), they'll be ranked high enough that they should get the kind of respect to get everyone best try - but as seen here in this thread, the P-5 school (fans, at least) tend to think a Mid-Major can never really be that good.

 

[Wesley]

In your estimation... you value UNI's 5 extra wins against 0 losses in beating teams ranked 150th or worse in the RPI as carrying more weight then Ohio State's 5 losses against teams ranked 37th or better in the RPI? (Keeping in mind that Ohio State has played 5 more games against top 50 teams then UNI and UNI has played 5 more games against 150 or lower ranked teams then Ohio State)

There is no wrong answer here either.

Just look at the rpi ratings and it says UNI is very good. More likely they consistently play good Jake system ball every game and do not have TT games like us as we play more inconsistent. We are the hare, they are the tortoise.

 

[Cydkar]

16 pages

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Okay, everything you've written is correct and accurate, and I respect that you spent time on the research and did your homework, but I guess I honestly don't see what your end point is.

No more mid-majors in the tournament, no matter how well they do in the regular season? Only Power 5 teams in the tournament since they play the toughest schedules?

I'm honestly not trying to put words in your mouth (or whatever the posting equivalent is), but I don't know what argument you're trying to win here.

Oh no... I love mid-major teams in the NCAA Tournament. They bring a completely different flavor and add drama as the tournament unfolds each year. I mean... watching teams like 11 seed George Mason, 8 seed Butler, and 11 seed VCU make crazy runs to the Final Four was awesome. Other teams pulling off shocking upsets like 15 seed Florida Gulf Coast making the Sweet 16, 13 seed LaSalle making the Sweet 16, or 1 game wonders like Norfolk State knocking off #2 seed Mizzou, Lehigh knocking off #2 seed Duke, Northwestern State knocking off #3 seed Iowa, Bucknell knocking off #3 seed Kansas, UNI knocking off #3 seed Mizzou 25 years ago... etc... Those games are what the tournament is all about.

My issue is with the more recent trend that the selection committee is on where some of these mid-major teams are being seeded far too high.

Compare these 3 resumes and tell me which team should be the #1 seed... (Quality wins are only against ranked teams)

Team A
Record 30-2
Regular season conference champions and tourney champions
Quality wins - @#22 Oklahoma State 69-68
Strength of Schedule - 96th
RPI - 6th

Team B
Record 27-5
Quality wins - #3 Kentucky 75-68, #2 Louisville 76-71, #4 Ohio State 73-68, #5 Miami(FL) 79-76
Strength of Schedule - 1st
RPI - 1st

Team C
Record 27-6
Regular season conference champions
Quality wins - #13 Michigan State 67-59, #1 Duke 90-63, @ #19 NC State 79-78,
Strength of Schedule - 7th
RPI - 4th

In my opinion Team B clearly has the best resume of these 3 teams.

 

[IP Guy]

I love this announcer!!!

 

[Cyclonestate78]

You're placing this on the mid-respected Mid-Major having a chip, but it also could involve the blue-blood failing to really respect their lowly opponent. If UNI wins out (xWSU), they'll be ranked high enough that they should get the kind of respect to get everyone best try - but as seen here in this thread, the P-5 school (fans, at least) tend to think a Mid-Major can never really be that good.

Mid-major teams can be very good but how would anyone know for sure until they prove it? There are plenty of examples in March of mid-majors seeded 7 or lower that have proven how good they were by beating some highly rated Power 5 teams in the tournament. There are also plenty of examples of mid-major teams with inflated records getting seeded too high and they got sent packing early against Power 5 teams seeded in the 7-12 range. So... say UNI wins out with their remaining schedule which they should and then goes down to St. Louis and wins the Valley Tournament. They would finish with a record of 31-2 going into Selection Sunday. UNI would finish most likely with 4 games against RPI top 50 teams out of 33 games overall. What seed would UNI deserve?

 

[UNIPantherFan]

Oh no... I love mid-major teams in the NCAA Tournament. They bring a completely different flavor and add drama as the tournament unfolds each year. I mean... watching teams like 11 seed George Mason, 8 seed Butler, and 11 seed VCU make crazy runs to the Final Four was awesome. Other teams pulling off shocking upsets like 15 seed Florida Gulf Coast making the Sweet 16, 13 seed LaSalle making the Sweet 16, or 1 game wonders like Norfolk State knocking off #2 seed Mizzou, Lehigh knocking off #2 seed Duke, Northwestern State knocking off #3 seed Iowa, Bucknell knocking off #3 seed Kansas, UNI knocking off #3 seed Mizzou 25 years ago... etc... Those games are what the tournament is all about.

My issue is with the more recent trend that the selection committee is on where some of these mid-major teams are being seeded far too high.

Compare these 3 resumes and tell me which team should be the #1 seed... (Quality wins are only against ranked teams)

Team A
Record 30-2
Regular season conference champions and tourney champions
Quality wins - @#22 Oklahoma State 69-68
Strength of Schedule - 96th
RPI - 6th

Team B
Record 27-5
Quality wins - #3 Kentucky 75-68, #2 Louisville 76-71, #4 Ohio State 73-68, #5 Miami(FL) 79-76
Strength of Schedule - 1st
RPI - 1st

Team C
Record 27-6
Regular season conference champions
Quality wins - #13 Michigan State 67-59, #1 Duke 90-63, @ #19 NC State 79-78,
Strength of Schedule - 7th
RPI - 4th

In my opinion Team B clearly has the best resume of these 3 teams.

Based on the information provided, you are correct. Team 3 is the clear choice. However, before I made a final decision I would want to know who these teams lost to and what their records are vs Top 50, Top 100 teams, etc.

 

[NATEizKING]

Mid-major teams can be very good but how would anyone know for sure until they prove it? There are plenty of examples in March of mid-majors seeded 7 or lower that have proven how good they were by beating some highly rated Power 5 teams in the tournament. There are also plenty of examples of mid-major teams with inflated records getting seeded too high and they got sent packing early against Power 5 teams seeded in the 7-12 range. So... say UNI wins out with their remaining schedule which they should and then goes down to St. Louis and wins the Valley Tournament. They would finish with a record of 31-2 going into Selection Sunday. UNI would finish most likely with 4 games against RPI top 50 teams out of 33 games overall. What seed would UNI deserve?

4 or 5

 

[ubuntuCAT]

Oh no... I love mid-major teams in the NCAA Tournament. They bring a completely different flavor and add drama as the tournament unfolds each year. I mean... watching teams like 11 seed George Mason, 8 seed Butler, and 11 seed VCU make crazy runs to the Final Four was awesome. Other teams pulling off shocking upsets like 15 seed Florida Gulf Coast making the Sweet 16, 13 seed LaSalle making the Sweet 16, or 1 game wonders like Norfolk State knocking off #2 seed Mizzou, Lehigh knocking off #2 seed Duke, Northwestern State knocking off #3 seed Iowa, Bucknell knocking off #3 seed Kansas, UNI knocking off #3 seed Mizzou 25 years ago... etc... Those games are what the tournament is all about.

My issue is with the more recent trend that the selection committee is on where some of these mid-major teams are being seeded far too high.

Compare these 3 resumes and tell me which team should be the #1 seed... (Quality wins are only against ranked teams)

Team A
Record 30-2
Regular season conference champions and tourney champions
Quality wins - @#22 Oklahoma State 69-68
Strength of Schedule - 96th
RPI - 6th

Team B
Record 27-5
Quality wins - #3 Kentucky 75-68, #2 Louisville 76-71, #4 Ohio State 73-68, #5 Miami(FL) 79-76
Strength of Schedule - 1st
RPI - 1st

Team C
Record 27-6
Regular season conference champions
Quality wins - #13 Michigan State 67-59, #1 Duke 90-63, @ #19 NC State 79-78,
Strength of Schedule - 7th
RPI - 4th

In my opinion Team B clearly has the best resume of these 3 teams.

Agreed (based on the info provided). And the RPI number reflects that.

RPI isn't perfect but it's about the only metric that accounts for win/loss record, road/home, & strength of schedule all combined.

Nobody in their right mind would argue UNI and ISU should have the same ranking if they had the same record. ISU has a much harder schedule. But they don't have the same record.

 

[theantiAIRBHG]

16 pages

Youve been here for 9 years, have 16K posts and don't have your posts per page set to 40??

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Agreed (based on the info provided). And the RPI number reflects that.

RPI isn't perfect but it's about the only metric that accounts for win/loss record, road/home, & strength of schedule all combined.

Nobody in their right mind would argue UNI and ISU should have the same ranking if they had the same record. ISU has a much harder schedule. But they don't have the same record.

Team A was Gonzaga in 2013. They nearly lost to 16 seed Southern in the 1st Round and did lose to 9 seed Wichita State in the 2nd round.

Team B was Duke in 2013. They were given a #2 seed with a clearly superior resume although their record wasn't quite as good. Duke was penalized as they ended up in Louisville's bracket and lost to the #1 seed Cardinals in the regional final.

Team C was Miami in 2013. They were given a #2 seed with a superior resume although their record wasn't quite as good. Miami lost in the Sweet 16 to #3 seed Marquette.

One could argue that had either Miami or Duke been the #1 seed instead of Gonzaga they would have gone to the Final Four rather then Wichita State who was gifted the weakest #1 seed maybe in NCAA Tournament history.

 

[Daserop]

Oh no... I love mid-major teams in the NCAA Tournament. They bring a completely different flavor and add drama as the tournament unfolds each year. I mean... watching teams like 11 seed George Mason, 8 seed Butler, and 11 seed VCU make crazy runs to the Final Four was awesome. Other teams pulling off shocking upsets like 15 seed Florida Gulf Coast making the Sweet 16, 13 seed LaSalle making the Sweet 16, or 1 game wonders like Norfolk State knocking off #2 seed Mizzou, Lehigh knocking off #2 seed Duke, Northwestern State knocking off #3 seed Iowa, Bucknell knocking off #3 seed Kansas, UNI knocking off #3 seed Mizzou 25 years ago... etc... Those games are what the tournament is all about.

My issue is with the more recent trend that the selection committee is on where some of these mid-major teams are being seeded far too high.

Compare these 3 resumes and tell me which team should be the #1 seed... (Quality wins are only against ranked teams)

Team A
Record 30-2
Regular season conference champions and tourney champions
Quality wins - @#22 Oklahoma State 69-68
Strength of Schedule - 96th
RPI - 6th

Team B
Record 27-5
Quality wins - #3 Kentucky 75-68, #2 Louisville 76-71, #4 Ohio State 73-68, #5 Miami(FL) 79-76
Strength of Schedule - 1st
RPI - 1st

Team C
Record 27-6
Regular season conference champions
Quality wins - #13 Michigan State 67-59, #1 Duke 90-63, @ #19 NC State 79-78,
Strength of Schedule - 7th
RPI - 4th

In my opinion Team B clearly has the best resume of these 3 teams.

This is my issue as well.

 

[johnnydugouts]

Rima is in the unique position of being both the "Voice of the <insert team here>" AND having a drive time sports talk show. so obviously he trolls a bit.

UNI is also in a fairly unique position for a mid major of having a collection of high-major talent. Washpun (Tenn, offer from Iowa) and Jesperson (UVA, Rivals 150 player, offered by ND, Minnesota, Iowa, amny others) were both high major recruits. Tuttle can clearly play anywhere, and Morgan chose UNI over high-major offers. Even guys like Bohannon, Lohaus, and Mitchell had many mid-major or weak high major (Creighton, Marquette, etc) offers.

Its not like UNI is throwing together a team of in-state leftovers and winning big with them.

Also, UNI has a top-20 RPI so their schedule evidently hasnt been THAT weak.