Should we make a change at Head wrestling Coach?

[Let's Go State]

KJ has been on my replacement list for a while. I really like him, but he seems very inconsistent and unprepared on the coaching side. TNT seem to be the consistent ones, and I believe they have been the drivers on the recruiting end". I definitely don't think we do worse with a change.

honestly, JP needs to keep an eye on a short list and if the fire gets hot, jump on it. It's a historic program ready to make some jumps and wrestling is getting more popular.

Id is also like to see them add women's wrestling as well as we'd be the premier school for that, nod it lends to a true Olympic training program.

 

[csteve]

I had been on the fence after year 5 and was ready after last season. Nothing has changed my mind since. I like KJ as a person, but think the time for a change is long overdue. I also liked Paul Rhoads as he seemed very personable, but I was ready for a change in FB too. Some coaches have the tools to take a program to the top and some will never get there. I don't think KJ could ever get us there.

I've ranted before on my reasons why. Our strength and conditioning seems nonexistent. We are consistently out of shape compared to our opponents, opponents are much stronger, we are horrible underneath, extremely poor in scrambling situations, and poor on top. The team has been constructed very poorly as KJ has not figured out the formula for where an individual's weight will likely be in year 5 compared to year 1.

Many on here are saying he should get a couple more years to see how this potentially good recruiting class pans out. There has been very little improvement in wrestlers from their freshman year to their senior year, so I'm pessimistic in thinking it will lead to much improvement in team performance. Also, I don't get where so many fans think we over performed or had such an outstanding Nationals. At this time last year, most of us on here thought Hall, Weatherspoon, and Downey should be AA this year. We also thought Boston, Moreno, Weatherman, and Harrington had decent chances. I guess I don't feel that we performed so well at Nationals. I think we just under performed all year long!

I would take a long hard look at Donny Pritzlaff (http://www.scarletknights.com/sports/m-wrestl/mtt/donny_pritzlaff_926826.html). He has been a key staff member wherever he has been. Wisconsin and Michigan have not been the same after he left. Look at what Rutgers are starting to do now that he is on staff.

Popolizio has also done some good things in a short amount of time. He is worth a call as well. These two would be on my short-short list with Pritz at the top.

 

[HGoat]

Would really like us to make Jordan Burroughs an offer after the completion of the Olympic cycle this august.

 

[Bowzer]

If we can get somebody decent, then it's time. I'm old enough to remember when I thought we could win nationals every year. Haven't felt that way since KJ's first year. I think there is somebody out there that would be a great hire. Former NCAA champ, former world champ ( I think), great recruiter, and has shown he can develope the talent he gets. Bono. Have JP and Chris swallow their pride and do what's best for the program

 

[CycloneWanderer]

Is being a great wrestler necessary in order to be a great coach of wrestling? It seems like in other sports like football or basketball very rarely are the top-level coaches former top-level athletes. I'm not a wrestler but it seems that many of the top-level coaches were great wrestlers in their day.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Is being a great wrestler necessary in order to be a great coach of wrestling? It seems like in other sports like football or basketball very rarely are the top-level coaches former top-level athletes. I'm not a wrestler but it seems that many of the top-level coaches were great wrestlers in their day.

I think part of the reason why top wrestlers make good coaches is because so much of wrestling is about individual training and preparation. Really good wrestlers know what that takes.
Good football players are often a result of being on good teams and there's a lot more to coaching football than just knowing the one position you played.
Wrestling is individual and while there's a ton of strategy for different weight classes, a good coach knows a lot of different strategies just from his wrestling career.

 

[Judoka]

Is being a great wrestler necessary in order to be a great coach of wrestling?

No, but it means a lot for recruiting. Also the career progression for wrestling coaches tends to start at being an assistant or volunteer who is essentially there to be a workout partner. And programs are generally going to look for elite guys to hire for that role. So while it isn't essential to be a great wrestler to be a great coach, with few exceptions you have to be at least an AA caliber wrestler to get a chance to be a great coach.

 

[cyhiphopp]

I think it's time for a change. Either you have what it takes to recruit and develop, or you don't. A few more years aren't going to make KJ better at that IMHO.

 

[buf87]

I have been following recruiting fairly close.

One thing I think that is happening is relationships.

I think KJ knew very few of the top recruits when he started. 2 were from Arizona, 2 were legacies

I think he has also figured out what to look for in recruits. Many of the kids in this class are smart. I think Storr, Parker and Colbray are going to get money from sources outside of the 9.9 athletic money. Whether from academic or Washington-Carver scholarships.

Troy Nickerson mention to me that we don't need to recruit kids that we have to work hard to keep eligible.

I really like the kids like Storr, Parker, Gomez, Leisure(He has not committed, but we are talking to him) to name a few. I think this will go a long ways toward better results.

 

[csteve]

I have been following recruiting fairly close.

One thing I think that is happening is relationships.

I think KJ knew very few of the top recruits when he started. 2 were from Arizona, 2 were legacies

I think he has also figured out what to look for in recruits. Many of the kids in this class are smart. I think Storr, Parker and Colbray are going to get money from sources outside of the 9.9 athletic money. Whether from academic or Washington-Carver scholarships.

Troy Nickerson mention to me that we don't need to recruit kids that we have to work hard to keep eligible.

I really like the kids like Storr, Parker, Gomez, Leisure(He has not committed, but we are talking to him) to name a few. I think this will go a long ways toward better results.

I appreciate what you are saying buf and agree that recruiting these types of athletes is a much smarter recruiting philosophy. I find it hard to believe this isn't the strategy from day 1. Regardless whether or not KJ and co. get better recruits, I don't see the development that is needed to build a championship team. With their track record, I have my doubts this staff can get it done. The only way I see us getting a championship, or even close, is if recruiting is out of this world.

 

[NEICyFan]

This thread great with a lot of good discussion. Great points on both sides. Also, to the people chiming in about dropping the sport...GTFO. Take a non-rev with great tradition and fan support in a great state for the sport and replace it with something that won't measure up in any way? Pure genius.

I've been a broken record on this subject but a few points:

We seem to be getting lost in the weeds at times in this discussion. There are a few shades of grey between 12-15 and 1st. The frustration for me isn't that we aren't winning titles it's that we aren't in the stratosphere. Doubling our points at the NCAAs puts us maybe into the top 5. We talk about "great" national tournaments (whatever that means)...which basically keep us from 20th place. I am surprised at the joy this gives some fans but I do get looking for a positive.

Something I'm tired of on this board: fans placing minimum expectations on the program, decidedly falling short of them, but saying "well we had a good tournament and recruiting looks good, so why change?" We do this every year. Why?

Consistently finishing 12+ place, or anywhere out of the top 10, is decidedly underachieving for this program based on available resources: fan support, facilities, budget, senior level club, tradition, etc. The "lack of support from the AD" thing might hold some truth at some level but it is also a crutch.

Finally, KJ has beaten me into submission to a certain degree. I've been at the forfront of the "Fire KJ" bandwagon for a few years but I'm at the point where my expectations have gotten so low that I just don't care as much as I once did. Just get better.

 

[CyGold]

8-9 qualifiers with 4 AA and a Top 10 placement. I expect at least 3 of the incoming freshmen to show that they will be major contributors the following year. I expect us to compete better and more consistent during the season.

This is almost exactly where my expectations are. KJ and his teams have under performed two years in a row now.

Also - I can't understand why nobody mentions Cody Sanderson as a viable HC. I don't hold it against him for following Cael and I think he might be the best assistant in the country that we could go get.

Here's what I posted in March of 2015:
[h=2]Re: PODCAST: An hour of ISU wrestling talk on KXnO[/h]

Thanks Chris for the coverage on wrestling. More please!

I can see both sides of the fire KJ vs. keep KJ arguments. Because of that I'm 100% on board with giving him 3 more years to prove that this year was a "fluke" down year at Nationals. I'm wondering if it isn't a fluke since this is the first time in the last 3 or 4 years that the team team as a whole didn't exceed most seeds/rankings/etc. It is easy play the "WHAT IF" game. What if... Kyven wins a championship, Mike Moreno gets top 4, Hall gets top 8 and we get another AA out of Gabe, Tanner or LSpoon. With those dreamed up results ISU ends up easily in the top 10 and probably top 5. IF that would have happened then I'm sure the extension would have been longer.

That being said I really hope that KJ is going to have to work to earn his next extension and win over his many naysayers by actual results and not "what if" scenarios.

IF KJ & crew really can coach (and recruit) then I believe they can get this current squad in the top 10 next year and then continue to show gradual improvement in the following years.

Here's how I see they can get it done:
"Top end" expectations: wgt - name - NCAA results:
125 - Boston/Larson - 2-2
133 - Hall - AA
141 - Meeks/Dante - R12/AA
149 - Gabe - AA
157 - Bricino/RRSpencer/Woiwer - ?
165 - Breitenbach - ?
174 - Tanner - AA
184 - LSpoon - AA
197 - Marcus - 2-2
Hwt - Smith - 1-2 (Before you laugh think about how much he improved from '14 to '15 - IF he improves that much again he will AA)

I'm leaving weights open but I'm expecting us to be solid at all 10 weights (like Larson was this year). Injuries and upsets happen (like this year) but we need to get at least 8 qualified and have a couple wrestle above expectations like Hall did in 2014. 4 AA's plus a couple of other guys getting some wins will get you a solid top 10 most years.

Also - for those of you that feel I'm apathetic or setting the bar too low at a top 10 finish...My long term expectation of KJ is to win a team championship. He just proved he can recruit and coach one of his own up to a title (Congrats Kyven & coaches!). Now he needs continue to improve and provide similar results out of 6 or 7 guys much like tOSU has done.

Good luck KJ and coaching staff...GO CYCLONES!​

 

[PD2]

Varner is really close to Cael and wanted to train with him. I'd imagine he probably got more money from the Nittany Lion Wrestling Club than the CWC could offer as well. Heading to Happy Valley after he graduated isn't an indication of anything more than that. There are only so many coaching positions on a staff and only so much CWC money.

The Sanderson ankle pick didn't phase Snyder...so much for that.

 

[Cloneman89]

Based on the deluge of responses I would say the answer may be - Who Cares? The renovation of Cap Tim field by ISU students shows the real love is baseball. Drop rasslin' and insert baseball - no Title IX issues and we can be like rest of Big 12 who have baseball and not wrestling!

 

[cyclonenation5]

Based on the deluge of responses I would say the answer may be - Who Cares? The renovation of Cap Tim field by ISU students shows the real love is baseball. Drop rasslin' and insert baseball - no Title IX issues and we can be like rest of Big 12 who have baseball and not wrestling!

We sucked at baseball. Neither sport makes money, why not keep a sport with tradition?

 

[BCClone]

Based on the deluge of responses I would say the answer may be - Who Cares? The renovation of Cap Tim field by ISU students shows the real love is baseball. Drop rasslin' and insert baseball - no Title IX issues and we can be like rest of Big 12 who have baseball and not wrestling!

How much does the baseball club get in donations? Those students really give big money I'm sure. I was there when we had both. I really didn't care about either. I made a couple wrestling meets, but have no idea where the baseball field is/was.

 

[Wally86]

It's hard to believe a northern baseball team will be competitive with southern teams in the big 12 or nationally. Look at the top 25 in baseball almost completely southern teams. It's hard to compete with more months of outside practice. I'm not much of a fan of either sport but it wouldn't make sense to drop a sport where we are nationally relevant for one we wouldn't be due to location.

Relative to KJ it should be a dollars and cents decision. If there is a way to be financially better off with a coaching change do it. If not work with him to improve what needs to be improved. I really hope football improves under Campbell so there are more finances to share and improve the non- revenue sports.

Don't hate on this next comment too much. I grasp this is the wrestling forum. If there were to be a sport swap I would vote for mens soccer. It's growing at a national level and northern schools are not disadvantaged the way they are in baseball. Just as a coaching change is a dollars and cents question so is this. Would the overall athletic department budget improve with the change? It would take a dramatic business case to drop a storied program like wrestling. Based on the amount of kids in youth soccer there will eventually be more soccer fans than wrestling. Wrestling versus soccer is a question that will someday be asked. When that day arrives Iowa state needs to be ahead of the curve and have a reputable program ahead of other Midwestern schools.

One last thought. With the popularity of MMA could Iowa state get a recruiting advantage by offering training in martial arts? It could prepare wrestlers for a post college career. Wouldn't this generate more press for the program then Olympic wrestling or Greco Roman and improve recruiting?

 

[theshadow]

If there were to be a sport swap I would vote for mens soccer.

ISU isn't going to add a sport that the Big 12 doesn't offer. WVU had men's soccer before joining the Big 12, and their squad ended up as an affiliate member in the MAC.

 

[Clone_12]

It's absolutely time for change...next year will be year 8 of the KJ era. We aren't even competitive with the elite schools anymore. It's to the point where you can just count on us getting absolutely pounded whenever we face Iowa or Oklahoma State (last year 6-33, 3-38).

It's been a LONG time since this program won a national title but we were at least competitive during the Cale and Douglas era's...with Jackson we've never been close and we're going into year 8. What exactly are we trying to accomplish here?

 

[Judoka]

One last thought. With the popularity of MMA could Iowa state get a recruiting advantage by offering training in martial arts? It could prepare wrestlers for a post college career. Wouldn't this generate more press for the program then Olympic wrestling or Greco Roman and improve recruiting?

Schools with Alum in MMA definitely go out of their way to talk that up. But as far as "varsity" sports go there's no varsity BJJ or kickboxing teams that I'm aware of and only two quasi school sponsored varsity Judo programs (as in having administration support and funding for some scholarships), at San Jose State and Texas A&M.