Refs were terrible both ways

[Clonefan32]

I think it'd be pretty easy to officiate a WVU game, call 20 fouls on them in the first 10 minutes and then watch as they are forced to play the sport of basketball for the first time ever hunder Huggy. It'd be an easy game to ref after that, toss him if you need to.

I don't think any officials who work our games have the courage to do that.

It was alot like any WVU. It just became a "tit for tat" type of thing. You call a touch foul here or there then you can't let their contact go. Pretty soon you're calling phantom fouls the other way because Huggy is giving you **** about the calls you've made on them. Pretty soon each trip down the floor requires an equally bad call to try to atone for the bad call made the possession before.

 

[ruxCYtable]

I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago. You know with 30+ year officiating experience and an engineer, I was throwing together an idea of a configuration of cameras hooked to a computerized AI system to "watch" the game and make the calls. EVERYONE would hate it as a computer would absolutely call every violation and foul without any prejudice, hesitation or deviation. A couple dozen cameras about knee high, shoulder high and some above court should cover 99% of area. AI systems are based off of brute data volume so the more information they get, the better and more accurate they get. It would be interesting and would probably only cost a couple hundred grand. Probably still have one official at each end of court to handle ball handling duties and talk to players and coaches.

10 years ago I would have said this was crazy, but I think we are pretty close to it being possible. Have you seen the replay system tennis uses? The court is surrounded with cameras that create a 3D digital image of the court, combines all the angles to tell whether a ball is in or out. I think you could theoretically use the same idea to determine if there was or was not contact.

The problem with that, however, is the way the rules are written they do require some human interpretation. As you know, all contact is not a foul, contact the CREATES AN ADVANTAGE is a foul. How is a computer going to judge advantage? Or would you have a human backing it up during testing to "teach" that? Or, would you re-write the rules to say something like a certain level of contact is ALWAYS going to be called, a certain level is only going to be called on the ball but not away from the ball, etc.

Lots of questions, but very intriguing.

 

[fsanford]

The probably need to go back you cannot put your hand on the guy with the ball, I believe they changed that rule back to the old way this year. I actually think the game was easier to call when they eliminated that.

The need to move the charge circle out farther, where it is now, you should not be rewarded for letting a guy get that close to the basket, by jumping in front of him. The circle is a good idea, it eliminated the Duke charge where those guys would sit under the bucket and draw calls. Just tweak it.

I would move it out another 2 feet.

If a guy shooting a 3 jumps into a defensive player on the shot, that is an offensive foul, he kicks the leg out on a 3 to draw contact offensive foul.

They need to move to the quarter system, where total fouls reset.

If you exceed 5 in a quarter its 1-1 exceed 7 its 2.

While ISU was on the right side of scoring from the free throw line last night, there are many a night where ISU has a solid night offensively but loses because they were outscored by 12 from the charity stripe.

You still have free throws but you might limit the number

And I think this might actually help the refs. There are fouls on just about every play, if the refs called them all we would spend half the game on the line. A quarter system would allow them (theoretically) to call up 10 fouls in a half before anyone shoots. (Unless in the act of shooting) Now 10 fouls is a double bonus.

Just some thoughts...

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Basketball is the hardest sport to officiate, plan and simple. The players are moving at incredible speeds, and the crowd is right on the floor. You can never see everything.

I work with guy that does woman's college basketball, he used to do Big 12 games, now just small college. I've asked him if he ever thought about doing the men's games, and he said, "way to much politics" involved in getting dates. He got phased out of the Big 12 as they started hiring more woman to ref the games. If the assignor likes you, you can get a lot of dates, but if that person moves on, the next person may shut you down completely.

Last night the refs had a poor night, the last foul on the WV big man that fouled him out was anticipation call more than anything else, I do not think he even touched out player, but slapped down at the ball and the official that was trailing called it a foul. They just had a bad night, but they did not favor either squad, that I could see.

 

[HFCS]

My opinion on that play is strictly personal, as I don't know the actual verbiage of the college rule and didn't see the Garza play.

I argued with some college officiating friends about the Babb play last night. Their argument was to fall back on the letter of the rule. My argument was based on common sense which, unfortunately, it seems the rule has eliminated. IMO, if you invade the space of the ball handler to the point where he can't pass the damn ball without contacting you, you deserve whatever you get, unless the offensive player CLEARLY does it intentionally.

I know that is not what the rule says, in which case I would simply say it is just a bad rule.

You match with the refs of the Iowa game when Garza elbowed the guy in the face and they called the foul on the guy who got elbowed because he was draped over him. They reviewed it and the result of their review was the polar opposite of last night's review.

 

[RonBurgundy]

The refs almost accomplished the impossible. Made an ISU win in which we got a ton of FT nearly unbearable to watch. I turned it off at the 4 minute TO as I was just sick of watching the refs blow the whistle every gd time down the floor.

 

[isufbcurt]

I wouldn't want to be an official to officiate a WV game.

I would love to. I'd call every foul I saw them commit. Then I'd tell Huggins "If you don't like the calls, tell your players to stop fouling. Now go sit your fat ass on your mini bar stool". Then I'd never ref another game again.

 

[JP4CY]

I would love to. I'd call every foul I saw them commit. Then I'd tell Huggins "If you don't like the calls, tell your players to stop fouling. Now go sit your fat ass on your mini bar stool". Then I'd never ref another game again.

Cuz he'd take out a mob hit on you, amirite?!

 

[isufbcurt]

Cuz he'd take out a mob hit on you, amirite?!

Cause I'd be blacklisted.

On a side note I am disappointed that Fran F. was going on about how Huggy shouldn't have been ejected (this was per my wife who watched the game on TV). Kept going on about how he is a HoF coach and deserves courtesy from the refs.

 

[Cardinal and Gold]

Cause I'd be blacklisted.

On a side note I am disappointed that Fran F. was going on about how Huggy shouldn't have been ejected (this was per my wife who watched the game on TV). Kept going on about how he is a HoF coach and deserves courtesy from the refs.

From what I saw on tv he wanted to get thrown out. Coaches that do the “hold me back bro” with an asst coach are just looking to get thrown out on purpose. What that purpose is it’s hard to say, maybe trying to make a point to his team that they didn’t fight through adversity. But it’s like in baseball when the mngr basically tells the umps that they won’t stop until they get tossed, so just get it over with.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Bingo. Eades isn't the crappy official everyone is making him out to be. The biggest issue I had from last night was that there was like a five minute stretch in the first half from the 17 minute mark to just outside of the 12 minute mark without a foul or dead ball. It's almost like the crew got together and said "we gotta slow this thing down, I can do his all night." After that the officials inserted themselves into the game and not in a good way.

Eades is probably the single worst official. There are others that I don’t like such as De Rosa and George but Eades is just awful.

 

[CYdTracked]

It's a good thing the game wasn't close because I think Prohm probably would have been more vocal about the officiating and ball calls too. It already sucks to ref a WVU game because of how aggressive they play but man some of the stuff they were calling or not calling against both teams was pretty ridiculous. THT got away with a blatant goal tend that the ball was practically on the rim when he swatted it. It's too bad that the supposed "grades/ratings" refs get after each game both pro and college aren't released for the public. The crew last night surely would have got a poor rating for the job they did. I don't blame Huggins 1 bit for getting tossed either, the refs deserved every bit of criticism they got from both coaches and the fans.

 

[isufbcurt]

From what I saw on tv he wanted to get thrown out. Coaches that do the “hold me back bro” with an asst coach are just looking to get thrown out on purpose. What that purpose is it’s hard to say, maybe trying to make a point to his team that they didn’t fight through adversity. But it’s like in baseball when the mngr basically tells the umps that they won’t stop until they get tossed, so just get it over with.

I agree 100%. But the timing didn't make sense to me. You don't draw tech's and get ejected when your team is getting beat by 15 with 4 minutes to go. If you are trying to fire up your team you get the T when there is still a chance they can win.

This one appeared to be "I can't watch how bad we are anymore so I'm going to get ejected".

 

[TykeClone]

It shouldn't be that hard, just call fouls a foul and be done with it. The refs shouldnt adjust their calls because one team plays more physical. It is either a foul or it isn't. WVU should be made to play baketball, not a combination of basketball and MMA.

The real travesty last night is that we only shot 30 free throws and not 60.

 

[RonBurgundy]

From what I saw on tv he wanted to get thrown out. Coaches that do the “hold me back bro” with an asst coach are just looking to get thrown out on purpose. What that purpose is it’s hard to say, maybe trying to make a point to his team that they didn’t fight through adversity. But it’s like in baseball when the mngr basically tells the umps that they won’t stop until they get tossed, so just get it over with.

As well as we played last night, I almost wish that game was @WVU. Huggy was just laying the ground work to try and get us jobbed on their floor when we play there later.

 

[EvilBetty]

I would say use 4 or 5 refs. They can’t expect these old guys to keep up with the speed of the game these days

lard would average 38 seconds per game before fouling out.

 

[Cardinal and Gold]

I agree 100%. But the timing didn't make sense to me. You don't draw tech's and get ejected when your team is getting beat by 15 with 4 minutes to go. If you are trying to fire up your team you get the T when there is still a chance they can win.

This one appeared to be "I can't watch how bad we are anymore so I'm going to get ejected".

Probably trying to make a point for the next game. I can’t imagine WVU practices will be much fun these next few days. Probably have some trash cans posted at the corners of the gym...if they can still do that kind of motivation these days.

 

[riceville98]

Cause I'd be blacklisted.

On a side note I am disappointed that Fran F. was going on about how Huggy shouldn't have been ejected (this was per my wife who watched the game on TV). Kept going on about how he is a HoF coach and deserves courtesy from the refs.

One quick connection: Fran F was not on the call. I believe you mean Tim Welsh (SP)

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I agree 100%. But the timing didn't make sense to me. You don't draw tech's and get ejected when your team is getting beat by 15 with 4 minutes to go. If you are trying to fire up your team you get the T when there is still a chance they can win.

This one appeared to be "I can't watch how bad we are anymore so I'm going to get ejected".

Between the stressed look on his face and the amount of sweat on Huggy Bears forehead I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he had been yo-yoing a turd for the majority of the second half and he had hit the point of no return.

 

[isufbcurt]

One quick connection: Fran F was not on the call. I believe you mean Tim Welsh (SP)

Are you sure? It looked like Fran F. sitting at the broadcast table in Hilton