I think it is nice that the BIG 12 is in compliance with the ADA and hires those refs last night. Slow and near-sighted people need jobs ,too.
Refs were terrible both ways
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You just described the rule perfectly. They are not supposed to take intent into consideration.
I have no idea why any rule or law in any part of life would not take into account the intent of the fouls or crime. That makes zero sense.
That isn’t totally true. By definition the contact has to be excessive. Excessive means not part of a basketball move and therefore implies some small intent. Babb’s shouldn’t have even been offensive at all but definitely wasn’t excessive. The one on WV was fairly weak but it was a really bad foul with direct contact to the face.
Would you say it was ... "Woodbury-esque"?
I didn't see the game, but it sounded to me like it was pretty bad both ways, which is not good, but it isn't near as bad as the way ISU gets treated against KU. I agree with others, that reffing a WVU game has to be a hard job. They play really physical and try to establish what they can get away with from the opening tip. They tend to frustrate the other team and tempers will eventually be involved.
It shouldn't be that hard, just call fouls a foul and be done with it. The refs shouldnt adjust their calls because one team plays more physical. It is either a foul or it isn't. WVU should be made to play baketball, not a combination of basketball and MMA.
The whole automatic flagrant thing always seems dumb to me.
The rulebook doesn't say it's a common foul when a defensive player slaps an arm reaching for the ball if it's clear the defensive player meant to do it. It just defines it as a foul. The ref uses judgement on every single call they make or don't. By the rule book every single thing that is in the rules is an 'automatic ' call, they aren't just suggestions, yet the ref makes judgement calls and let's a lot go.
I get how the rule operates that if a foul is called and that with the contact to the face it's a flagrant automatically. And by concept i get why it's there, but the result is not consistent game to game. I'm pretty sure Jacobson got hit in the face last game and a foul was called but it wasn't a flagrant and it wasn't reviewed on the monitor. So there is still inconsistencies even with the rule being 'automatic'.
The rulebook doesn't say it's a common foul when a defensive player slaps an arm reaching for the ball if it's clear the defensive player meant to do it. It just defines it as a foul. The ref uses judgement on every single call they make or don't. By the rule book every single thing that is in the rules is an 'automatic ' call, they aren't just suggestions, yet the ref makes judgement calls and let's a lot go.
I get how the rule operates that if a foul is called and that with the contact to the face it's a flagrant automatically. And by concept i get why it's there, but the result is not consistent game to game. I'm pretty sure Jacobson got hit in the face last game and a foul was called but it wasn't a flagrant and it wasn't reviewed on the monitor. So there is still inconsistencies even with the rule being 'automatic'.
But there are only 3 officials and the ball is moving very fast. In addition, WVU tends to foul all over the court and away from the ball, where most of the ref's attention will be on the guy with the ball. Neither situation is good, but to look the other way on obvious fouls because the team is wearing blue is worse.
I still can't understand how it was a flagrant on babb and not a cylinder rule foul on the WV guy.
Exactly. Poor officiating all over last night. Lucky for us we were able to blow them out.
We are going to do pretty well anytime we can shoot 30-35 free throws in a game. Eades was off his normal game last night and it was probably related to the other two being flat out bad!
Eades did a really good game the KU game at Hilton.
Compared to the last few years, this years WV team really isn't even that physical.
The scores table keeps track of all timeouts, and when a player fouls out of the game. The control panel would have a built in 30 and 60 sec clock. They are suppose to start the clock when the official signals them, and then blow the horn when the countdown clock hits 15 seconds left. They then are suppose to sound the horn again at zero seconds.
The ref is instructed if a team has not entered the floor, to blow his whistle and either place the ball on the floor out of bounds or hand it to the team that is in bounding the ball.
I have never seen that last part happen in a college game, but I have in high school games.
They can show the countdown on the score board, but generally they are using that for advertising during breaks and timeouts.
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While we are talking about refs and rules, why isn't it a foul when a player is down on the court with the ball and another player flies in and jumps on him, or sits in last night case?
Bingo. Eades isn't the crappy official everyone is making him out to be. The biggest issue I had from last night was that there was like a five minute stretch in the first half from the 17 minute mark to just outside of the 12 minute mark without a foul or dead ball. It's almost like the crew got together and said "we gotta slow this thing down, I can do his all night." After that the officials inserted themselves into the game and not in a good way.
Looked like Huggins biggest issue was them walking to the other side of the court and huddling up when he was trying to talk to them. Is that typical? Usually isn't one ref under one basket, one under the other, and the third near mid-court? I've never really paid attention. I did agree with the commentators that it would probably been best if they walked over and pretended to listen to him for a bit, although I think at that point Huggy was going to do whatever was necessary to get run.
That was as bad of officiated of a game as I can remember. Just when I thought we were getting a bad whistle they would turn around and make an atrocious call or two on WVU. The one that fouled out Ahmad was also comically bad.
Count me in on the flagrant one rule being out of control. With targeting in football I can kind of get it, with the research behind concussions and CTE, etc. So great, err on the side of over calling it. But is that really necessary in basketball? If a guy is blatantly swinging elbows at someone's face sure, call it a flagrant, but is there that large of safety risk that a play like Babb's needs taken out of the game? Absolute worst case scenario there is a broken nose, which I imagine everyone who has played basketball through college has had at least one of. I just don't see the safety concern that justifies something like Babb's "flagrant" being worth two shots and the ball.
That was as bad of officiated of a game as I can remember. Just when I thought we were getting a bad whistle they would turn around and make an atrocious call or two on WVU. The one that fouled out Ahmad was also comically bad.
Count me in on the flagrant one rule being out of control. With targeting in football I can kind of get it, with the research behind concussions and CTE, etc. So great, err on the side of over calling it. But is that really necessary in basketball? If a guy is blatantly swinging elbows at someone's face sure, call it a flagrant, but is there that large of safety risk that a play like Babb's needs taken out of the game? Absolute worst case scenario there is a broken nose, which I imagine everyone who has played basketball through college has had at least one of. I just don't see the safety concern that justifies something like Babb's "flagrant" being worth two shots and the ball.
Any game where WVU gets less than 20 fouls is automatically a poorly officiated game. I have never seen them play a game under Huggy where they foul less then their opponent but I have seen dozens of box scores where the fouls are even or they even have a bit less than the opponent.
