If you're playing KU with the conference title on the line for them it's a foul on the guy who gets jumped on top of that hands the game over. #fakestreak
Refs were terrible both ways
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If you're playing KU with the conference title on the line for them it's a foul on the guy who gets jumped on top of that hands the game over. #fakestreak
Exactly. Its getting to the point where opposing players can just put their face near players' elbows and hope there is even a tiny bit of incidental contact.
I didn't have any problems with the flagrant calls last night, its the rule that sucks.
That said, there were SEVERAL bad calls - specifically three horrible phantom foul calls, one on THT, one on Lard, and maybe the worst one was on Ahmed to foul him out. He didn't touch Jacobson and got all ball on the reach in.
I'm not sure those are the rules though.
Last week Iowa had a replay where Garza elbowed a guy in the face and the reviewed it and actually put Garza at the FT line. His defender was less in his space than Babb's defender was on either of those calls.
One of these two reviews was drastically wrong and I don't think it was the Garza reversal, it seems weird but even with a guy getting elbowed in the face these are not fouls on the guy delivering the elbow by the letter of the rules.
D
Deleted member 8507
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Officiating was awful, but the flagrants were arguably a result of a bad rule as much as poor officiating. They just need to change the rule- unecessary flagrant 1's get called about every other game.
Officiating needs to have an internal review and have pay based on that. Make it merit based.
You all know I'm a huge ref apologist. There is no apologizing for last night. It was pathetic, and I knew it would be the second I saw Tom Eades and his silver head.
One of the mantras in officiating is "no phantoms," i.e. don't guess and call things that don't happen. Tom Eades does it repeatedly. I don't know how a guy who repeatedly violates this cardinal rule of officiating keeps his job.
I could write a book about things that contribute to poor officiating. I will try very hard to give a summary opinion. First and foremost, it's a good old boys club. Very hard to crack into and even if you get a look it's very hard to stay there.
I have a close friend I used to officiate high school basketball with. He started working his way up the college ranks, from small college, to eventually MVC and other mid-majors. Got to the point he was on the associate roster (basically sub roster) for the Big XII and B1G. One day he got "the call." He subbed for Ed Hightower, no less, who had a flight cancelled. He worked an important Big Ten game and, objectively, did a great job. Even the Register mentioned the quality of officiating in the game and wondered who they all were.
He never got another Big Ten game.
A couple years later, Jim Bain retired as MVC supervisor, new guy came in and fired everyone he "didn't know." In short, only kept his friends on the roster. Now, my friend is 45 years old and completely out of basketball. One of the best officials I've ever known and, in my opinion, would have been one of the best officials to come from Iowa.
There are guys who don't get opportunities because they don't "look the part." We all know the jokes about the fat ref and all that. There are fat guys who can flat-out referee basketball. I'm overweight, I have bad knees, and I can tell you with 100% confidence I would have worked a better game last night than Tom Eades. Would I have missed stuff? Yes. Would I have called stuff that didn't happen? Not on your life.
Yes, the NCAA and its P5 leagues have officiating problems. Some of it is because of the human element, which can't be avoided. Some of it is because they are knowingly not putting the best people on the court. And that is inexcusable, IMO.
End of that rant.
Someone once asked me if I were to design a new system from the ground up, what would I do? I don't know if this is the best way or not, but the first idea I had was to go back to two officials on the court, but have an official in a volleyball nest above each basket.
One of the mantras in officiating is "no phantoms," i.e. don't guess and call things that don't happen. Tom Eades does it repeatedly. I don't know how a guy who repeatedly violates this cardinal rule of officiating keeps his job.
I could write a book about things that contribute to poor officiating. I will try very hard to give a summary opinion. First and foremost, it's a good old boys club. Very hard to crack into and even if you get a look it's very hard to stay there.
I have a close friend I used to officiate high school basketball with. He started working his way up the college ranks, from small college, to eventually MVC and other mid-majors. Got to the point he was on the associate roster (basically sub roster) for the Big XII and B1G. One day he got "the call." He subbed for Ed Hightower, no less, who had a flight cancelled. He worked an important Big Ten game and, objectively, did a great job. Even the Register mentioned the quality of officiating in the game and wondered who they all were.
He never got another Big Ten game.
A couple years later, Jim Bain retired as MVC supervisor, new guy came in and fired everyone he "didn't know." In short, only kept his friends on the roster. Now, my friend is 45 years old and completely out of basketball. One of the best officials I've ever known and, in my opinion, would have been one of the best officials to come from Iowa.
There are guys who don't get opportunities because they don't "look the part." We all know the jokes about the fat ref and all that. There are fat guys who can flat-out referee basketball. I'm overweight, I have bad knees, and I can tell you with 100% confidence I would have worked a better game last night than Tom Eades. Would I have missed stuff? Yes. Would I have called stuff that didn't happen? Not on your life.
Yes, the NCAA and its P5 leagues have officiating problems. Some of it is because of the human element, which can't be avoided. Some of it is because they are knowingly not putting the best people on the court. And that is inexcusable, IMO.
End of that rant.
Someone once asked me if I were to design a new system from the ground up, what would I do? I don't know if this is the best way or not, but the first idea I had was to go back to two officials on the court, but have an official in a volleyball nest above each basket.
TL/DR. In other words it's almost like corruption runs the Country these days. And the NCAA certainly isn't going to be immune from that HAHA. It is not what you know, it is who you know.
I've never thought about that before but I really like the idea. Might as well give officials a better viewpoint. Also gives the fat guys a chance
I saw a lot of anticipated whistles last night. Whether they were against a perceived fouler (lard), a make-up call, or trying to keep team fouls even. There is no room for any of that in reffing, and caused a lot of ticky tack fouls against us. Then refs start missing more calls and trying to be fair to the team instead of calling them as you see them, and then the game is out of hand. They were never on the same page causing inconsistency. That’s what I saw last night, and the reason for Huggins getting tossed. I was hoping to see Prohm give a little ear full too, but since we were winning by a large margin he was probably right to stay out of it and keep our players heads even.
The next well officiated game I see will be the first. Bad officiating will never change. All you can ask for the to be awful in the same manner each game.
Huggins assistant in the tan suit was literally in discussion with a ref at the top of the key every timeout almost the full duration.
I wouldn't want to be an official to officiate a WV game.
I always cringe when ISU follows a WV game on TV, you know it will undoubtedly run very late.
I always cringe when ISU follows a WV game on TV, you know it will undoubtedly run very late.
I believe it's the table but, I could be wrong as the other poster said, it's 15 seconds not 1 minute though That I do know
This is a very astute observation. Sometimes when the **** hits the fan, you start second-guessing stuff. "I'd better pass on that because they're already pissed at me." But what happens when you think that way is you start digging a deeper and deeper hole, the game gets chippier and chippier and before you know it, you've lost control.
In your opinion if you saw the Garza replay reversal last week and the Babb "flagrant" last night do you think the correct call would have been to reverse Babb's the same way they reversed Garza's?
One of those two decisions out of a replay was horribly wrong because it was the same thing and in Garza's case they put the foul on the guy he elbowed because he was all over him prior to the elbow.
I think it'd be pretty easy to officiate a WVU game, call 20 fouls on them in the first 10 minutes and then watch as they are forced to play the sport of basketball for the first time ever hunder Huggy. It'd be an easy game to ref after that, toss him if you need to.
I don't think any officials who work our games have the courage to do that.
The thing about that too is that the refs are supposed to be enforcing the player cylinder rule thing which they weren't they let the WVU players get right into the bodies of ISU guys. Some of the missed or bad calls I don't blame them because it is bang bang play.
D
Deleted member 8507
Guest
I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago. You know with 30+ year officiating experience and an engineer, I was throwing together an idea of a configuration of cameras hooked to a computerized AI system to "watch" the game and make the calls. EVERYONE would hate it as a computer would absolutely call every violation and foul without any prejudice, hesitation or deviation. A couple dozen cameras about knee high, shoulder high and some above court should cover 99% of area. AI systems are based off of brute data volume so the more information they get, the better and more accurate they get. It would be interesting and would probably only cost a couple hundred grand. Probably still have one official at each end of court to handle ball handling duties and talk to players and coaches.
My opinion on that play is strictly personal, as I don't know the actual verbiage of the college rule and didn't see the Garza play.
I argued with some college officiating friends about the Babb play last night. Their argument was to fall back on the letter of the rule. My argument was based on common sense which, unfortunately, it seems the rule has eliminated. IMO, if you invade the space of the ball handler to the point where he can't pass the damn ball without contacting you, you deserve whatever you get, unless the offensive player CLEARLY does it intentionally.
I know that is not what the rule says, in which case I would simply say it is just a bad rule.
