Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

[DrShip]

If we had the Big XII network, I think the 4 malcontents are placated enough to stick together for awhile. The Pac super conference discussion doesn't happen, and when the Big 10 announces it is pursuing expansion they grab Maryland and Rutgers for their media markets. At that point bigger ACC fish would look at the Big XII.

I think once the BIG gets it's network, it was always going to make more money due to being more widely spread in higher population centers. That's when Nebraska ends up jumping ship because they're sick of Texas. Or maybe Missouri jumps in 2010 when the BIG says they're looking to expand. Fun to think about, hard to say.

The only thing I'll say for sure is the egos of Texas, TAM, Nebraska, and to a lesser extent Oklahoma held the Big XII back.

 

[Al_4_State]

The Big 12 has always been plagued by a "somewhere else is better" mindset that the Big 10 and SEC never had. Their flagships were proud of their conference and happy to be there. Completely satisfied to prop up these lesser neighboring schools. All of the big dogs in the Big 12 thought they were above being associated with the other schools they were associated with for reasons that have never been very clear or logical to me.

 

[alarson]

 

[HouClone]

I get where you're coming from, and it does suck when you get left out of the big kid's club. That said, you would do well to remember just how much empathy Oregon State, Washington State, Wake Forrest, and Boston College fans showed us any of the times the Big XII looked like it was going to die. They don't care about the state of Iowa on the coasts let alone and school there.

I hate it, and wish no one had to be left out, but the reality is the BIG and SEC have decided it's going to be all about them, and we get to live in that world. Money is undefeated throughout this process, and once the powers that be decide that will make them the most money those conferences will cut weight as well.

I want what's best for Iowa State, and if that means Washington State and Boston College get to be sacrificial lambs, so be it. We are not going to be a part of the super league, whatever that turns out to be. We need to accept that and try to position ourselves to be at the top of whatever comes next.

The Big 12's reputation has been a running joke for the past 14 years. "Island of misfit toys" I have heard many times. The other college teams including Washington State, Oregon State, BC, still can't believe the Big 12 is stable and doing well. You would think Washington State and Oregon State would be talking about doing all they can to get into the Big 12. There are some saying that, but there are a good contingent counting on the 4 corners leaving the Big 12 and making a western pod of the ACC with Cal and Stanford. Then there are some wanting the whole structure to blow up with the P2 breaking away.

 

[KnappShack]

 

[alarson]

Call me Spaghetti

 

[Cloneon]

If we had the Big XII network, I think the 4 malcontents are placated enough to stick together for awhile. The Pac super conference discussion doesn't happen, and when the Big 10 announces it is pursuing expansion they grab Maryland and Rutgers for their media markets. At that point bigger ACC fish would look at the Big XII.

I think once the BIG gets it's network, it was always going to make more money due to being more widely spread in higher population centers. That's when Nebraska ends up jumping ship because they're sick of Texas. Or maybe Missouri jumps in 2010 when the BIG says they're looking to expand. Fun to think about, hard to say.

The only thing I'll say for sure is the egos of Texas, TAM, Nebraska, and to a lesser extent Oklahoma held the Big XII back.

Help me to understand. The P12 had their own network. They had large metro areas. Yet, their network was a dismal failure. Why would the B12's network be any better, had they done it back then? On top of that the entire P12 was in on the network (i.e. no outliers or saboteurs like TX, A&M, OK, NE). My first thought would be the NFL in those metro areas. Would the SEC Network have done well if Atlanta, Miami, or Tampa Bay over that time were good and pulling numbers? There's so much to consider for the upward swing of the SEC. Regardless, we're where we are and I'm confident BY will lead the conference to new heights.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

And don't forget who vetoed the conference network idea: Texas, Nebraska, A&M, Oklahoma.

Not only did those schools leave, but they perpetually did the most they could to put the rest of the conference in the worst spot possible position before doing so.

11/12 schools voted no on the network.

It was a private vote so no one knows who voted for it, rumor was that it was actually Texas.

 

[Al_4_State]

11/12 schools voted no on the network.

It was a private vote so no one knows who voted for it, rumor was that it was actually Texas.

Texas fans claim they were the only school who wanted a network.

Which actually makes them a bit less hypocritical than Nebraska who voted against the network then cited the Big 10 Network as a reason to leave.

 

[Die4Cy]

The Big 12 has always been plagued by a "somewhere else is better" mindset that the Big 10 and SEC never had. Their flagships were proud of their conference and happy to be there. Completely satisfied to prop up these lesser neighboring schools. All of the big dogs in the Big 12 thought they were above being associated with the other schools they were associated with for reasons that have never been very clear or logical to me.

This wasn't a thing until Texas and A&M arrived. Even with the concessions made to them to join then Big 12, they were always and forever salty over the demise of the SWC and were perpetually on the lookout for something better from day one, which was in and of itself destabilizing for the rest of us, and bled off onto some of our Big 8 brethren.

Everything else being equal the new Big 12 absent the conference cancers is a pretty enjoyable league to be a part of, the money differential notwithstanding.

 

[DrShip]

Help me to understand. The P12 had their own network. They had large metro areas. Yet, their network was a dismal failure. Why would the B12's network be any better, had they done it back then? On top of that the entire P12 was in on the network (i.e. no outliers or saboteurs like TX, A&M, OK, NE). My first thought would be the NFL in those metro areas. Would the SEC Network have done well if Atlanta, Miami, or Tampa Bay over that time were good and pulling numbers? There's so much to consider for the upward swing of the SEC. Regardless, we're where we are and I'm confident BY will lead the conference to new heights.

Pac 12 Network's problems were self-inflicted, if I recall. They have complete control/ownership, and the network has terrible distribution. Plus most of their fans don't care. I'd think Big XII network that followed a similar plan as the BIG could have been successful. I could be wrong, after all the SEC and ACC networks are nothing amazing, ut i wouldn't cite the dumpster fire that is the Pac 12 network as what would happen.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Pac 12 Network's problems were self-inflicted, if I recall. They have complete control/ownership, and the network has terrible distribution. Plus most of their fans don't care. I'd think Big XII network that followed a similar plan as the BIG could have been successful. I could be wrong, after all the SEC and ACC networks are nothing amazing, ut i wouldn't cite the dumpster fire that is the Pac 12 network as what would happen.

Correct. The Pac12 Network, and by association the Pac12, was dead the minute they decided to go it alone and not partner with FOX or ESPN. Signed their own death warrant and didn't know it for 14 years.

 

[CascadeClone]

What has anybody outside the Big East and Big 12 done in basketball for a decade? If they want to play that way they should be two bid conferences in the big dance.

I looked it up, and... uhhh....
Final 4 participants past 10 tournaments (11 years - covid):

 

[jctisu]

I get where you're coming from, and it does suck when you get left out of the big kid's club. That said, you would do well to remember just how much empathy Oregon State, Washington State, Wake Forrest, and Boston College fans showed us any of the times the Big XII looked like it was going to die. They don't care about the state of Iowa on the coasts let alone and school there.

I hate it, and wish no one had to be left out, but the reality is the BIG and SEC have decided it's going to be all about them, and we get to live in that world. Money is undefeated throughout this process, and once the powers that be decide that will make them the most money those conferences will cut weight as well.

I want what's best for Iowa State, and if that means Washington State and Boston College get to be sacrificial lambs, so be it. We are not going to be a part of the super league, whatever that turns out to be. We need to accept that and try to position ourselves to be at the top of whatever comes next.

I remember very well. I just don’t participate in that line of feeling and thought. Just because someone cheered for our demise or what have you, I don’t wish that upon them. Plus again, the overwhelming majority of fan bases are just fine. It’s the vocal minority on social media that give fan bases bad reps. We have them too. Most people think we are a bunch of victim mentality complainers. Well yes, online it sure as hell appears that way.

 

[HFCS]

I looked it up, and... uhhh....
Final 4 participants past 10 tournaments (11 years - covid):

View attachment 129808

Yeah, it's not even close using those 10 seasons. Those conferences suck balls when you consider they had way more teams to pull from and haven't won hardly any championships recently

7 champs/22 teams
vs
3 champs/ 55 teams

8 title games/22 teams
vs
9 title games/55 teams

Utter and total dominance. Power 2 basketball vs Group of 4, now Group of 3.

For the vast majority of those seasons Big 12/Big East was only 21 but I bumped it to 22 because last year Big 12 had 14. 55 is generally the number the other 4 had. Complete domination at least similar to the scope of Big 10/SEC football when you consider TCU won a game, OU/Pac/ND got a bunch of appearances and Clemson won some championships.

The heavy lifting of what has been done is all ACC too. Big Ten, Pac, and SEC have done virtually nothing when you consider how they were all three bigger than the smaller Big East and Big 12.

Big Ten and SEC have been expanding almost purposefully ignoring basketball options like Kansas, UConn, Arizona without even getting to all the good but not great programs they passed on for the likes of Rutgers, Penn State and Nebraska.

 

[Al_4_State]

This wasn't a thing until Texas and A&M arrived. Even with the concessions made to them to join then Big 12, they were always and forever salty over the demise of the SWC and were perpetually on the lookout for something better from day one, which was in and of itself destabilizing for the rest of us, and bled off onto some of our Big 8 brethren.

Everything else being equal the new Big 12 absent the conference cancers is a pretty enjoyable league to be a part of, the money differential notwithstanding.

I think Mizzou and Colorado felt this way in the Big 8.

I agree that Nebraska and Oklahoma didn't. At least not back then.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

I looked it up, and... uhhh....
Final 4 participants past 10 tournaments (11 years - covid):

View attachment 129808

Don’t use facts when there are feelings to consider!

 

[Clonefan94]

You wonder though... suppose they create the Big12 network for real back in the day, and it suddenly makes much more money for the conference. Do they then stay? Does the bigger money become a draw for LSU, Bama, and others?

Is there some alternate timeline where the Big12 is one of the P2, and the SEC is picked apart and pulling in Houston and UCF to survive? "The Man in the High Pressbox"?

IMO, no, Texas would have always wanted more than everyone else, which would have just caused the same problems with Nebraska and OU. Maybe Nebraska wouldn't have been so quick to jump ship, but they never were going to get along with Texas. The one thing I will say nice about the Big 10, is so far, they have shown they care about The conference as a whole. That may change, but so far it's been about raising the conference, not let's see how much we can grab for ourselves.

I don't think they will blow up the SEC like they almost did with the Big 12, but in the not so distant future, they will cause problems in the SEC. Texas can't stand to consider themselves equal to anyone, let along second fiddle. And if they do somehow become the top dog, you better be sure Texas will make sure everyone in the SEC knows it.

 

[cykadelic2]

11/12 schools voted no on the network.

It was a private vote so no one knows who voted for it, rumor was that it was actually Texas.

Here is the background on Kevin Weiberg's attempt to launch a B12 Network. Based on this article, 8 schools supported it. KU was lukewarm. aggy, UT, NU and OU were against it. It is my understanding that 9 schools needed to say yes.

And I agree with Tramel, the decision to not proceed with it was the tipping point for the attrition from the conference that followed.

The Big 12 Conference should have listened to Kevin Weiberg

COMMENTARY — The league’s former commissioner wanted to form a Big 12 Network. But he couldn’t sell it to enough schools, and now the Big 12 has been passed by other conferences and their channels.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Here is the background on Kevin Weiberg's attempt to launch a B12 Network. Based on this article, 8 schools supported it. KU was lukewarm. aggy, UT, NU and OU were against it. It is my understanding that 9 schools needed to say yes.

And I agree with Tramel, the decision to not proceed with it was the tipping point for the attrition from the conference that followed.

The Big 12 Conference should have listened to Kevin Weiberg

COMMENTARY — The league’s former commissioner wanted to form a Big 12 Network. But he couldn’t sell it to enough schools, and now the Big 12 has been passed by other conferences and their channels.

www.oklahoman.com

Yep, the Big 12 most likely sticks together and pulls FSU and Clemson if that network would have been approved.