Premier League

shagcarpetjesus

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Apr 18, 2006
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You don't think there will still be a Champions' League?

They can call it a Champions League if they want, but it’s just the Europa League with a new name. So fans are supposed to get excited about Everton, West Ham, and Leicester all fighting to see who can finish highest in the table while playing against Man City and Liverpool B squads on the weekend? What incentive will the Big 6 have to take competition in the PL seriously if they get their way?
 

PSYclone22

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They can call it a Champions League if they want, but it’s just the Europa League with a new name. So fans are supposed to get excited about Everton, West Ham, and Leicester all fighting to see who can finish highest in the table while playing against Man City and Liverpool B squads on the weekend? What incentive will the Big 6 have to take competition in the PL seriously if they get their way?
I'm running under the assumption they get booted from the FA.

Maybe I need to consider the alternative.
 

AlaCyclone

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Jun 14, 2007
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They can call it a Champions League if they want, but it’s just the Europa League with a new name. So fans are supposed to get excited about Everton, West Ham, and Leicester all fighting to see who can finish highest in the table while playing against Man City and Liverpool B squads on the weekend? What incentive will the Big 6 have to take competition in the PL seriously if they get their way?
It will work about as well as MVC Football in the 1980s. If this happens, the PL Teams that go to the Super League should be kicked out of the PL, and the PL can go about their business vs. other full-time PL teams. Heck, the PL might even be better and more competitive without the greedy teams.
 

shagcarpetjesus

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Apr 18, 2006
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I'm running under the assumption they get booted from the FA.

Maybe I need to consider the alternative.

I think the breakaway clubs hold all the cards and they know it. Even if the PL and FA want to make a stand on principle, everybody knows that NBC isn’t paying the PL $200m per year to broadcast a league of the Other 14 plus Watford, Norwich, Swansea, Brentford, Bournemouth etc. And that’s just for US media rights obviously. It’s the same with Spain and Italy too. How in demand are La Liga rights without Barca, Real, and Atletico?

Just to be clear, I despise the idea of this Super League. If you want to stage a hostile takeover and create your own revamped CL, go for it and call it whatever you want. Create a closed system though for 15 of the 20 competitors and I call BS immediately. If they go through with this, I hope their local fans abandon the clubs in droves. Season ticket sales crater, atmosphere in the stadiums withers and dies. Let them play in COVID empty stadiums and rake in their media money from international streams.

Fan pressure and player pressure might be the only thing that gets everybody to back away from the ledge. If enough big name players were to come out and say they don’t support this and would seek a transfer away/vow to never play for these clubs, you might see some minds change. I think the boardrooms of these clubs are gambling that they can feed their fans **** sandwiches and they won’t get enough pushback for it to hurt. It is telling that the leadership for all of these clubs have basically gone underground since this has been announced. If this is a universally good thing, why aren’t they out there singing the praises of the ESL and outlining all the benefits that it will bring to football overall?
 
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k123

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Sep 14, 2011
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This is a long "Super League" article but these quotes make some helpful points about the bigger gap in La Liga compared to Premier League, and the tight spot Real Madrid and Barcelona are in as Needing Cash, and the factor of foreign (read: American (plus a Russian oligarch :)) ownership. These debate articles are very interesting to me because we are so conditioned to a closed league structure (fish in water, etc), while this debate clarifies some first principles that we take as given/assumptions of how pro sports leagues are set up.

It will be wild! if they can throw out the teams from semifinals of Champion's League and Europa League. Seems like courts would "stay" any decision, and they'll go on...


They have paid for the legal advice, and consulted their public relations experts, and the decision after months of plotting is that, in spite of the near-universal opprobrium for the idea, they shall press on. Over the next few days we will be told that this new competition, run for the elite clubs, by the elite clubs, will give football’s pyramid €10 billion in solidarity over the next 23 years. That is the argument they plan to run to convince sovereign governments and the European Union of its merits, although if you believe that the three in charge of this enterprise care about the world outside their tinted chauffeur-driven window then you have not been paying attention.

The basis of (k123 note: a prior "reform" proposal) Project Big Picture (PBP) in October was to distribute the revenue of a diminished Premier League to buy off the rest of the English game, while the elite transferred its chief wealth creation model elsewhere. The authors of that document were giving away the broadcast revenue critical for the likes of Leicester City and Southampton in order to facilitate them earning more at another source. This European project of stupendous greed is the source. One that tolerates no regulator or oversight other than the clubs who seek to dominate the world’s game.

The pressure in recent weeks to agree a public consensus on the Super League and announce its founders has come almost exclusively from Spain where Pérez’s Real and Barcelona are burdened with debts so severe it threatens to take them under. In both cases more than €1 billion with no way out in a depressed pandemic transfer-market. Real are committed to a costly long-term stadium rebuild; Barcelona struggled to meet their six-monthly wage obligations in January. Pérez has long sought to eliminate the financial supremacy of the Premier League, built on the equality that Spain’s Liga will not tolerate, and he has found a way in via the soft underbelly of the American ownerships.

The Glazers at Manchester United, Liverpool’s Fenway Group, and the hapless Kroenke family ownership at Arsenal own the three most valuable heritage pieces of English football. Unlike the US sports franchises under their control whose value and revenue is protected by the closed-shop nature of US sport leagues, there is no such stability in the English game. The jeopardy of the sport is what confers its intrinsic value and also what makes it such a challenge to its owners. Those owners would much rather the Major League Soccer system, where each franchise is guaranteed its place in the league year in and year out and holds its value for an investor.

Although there is a consequence to that too – MLS has high franchise valuations but a paltry annual broadcast deal of €90 million. Football fans can smell the absence of risk and the confected nature of a competition where there is no relegation and they treat it accordingly. Yet this is the model that the great European game would follow.

A Super League is, tragically, a great victory for Pérez, a man who controls Real despite investing no more money in the club than his annual socio fee of €150. So too for Agnelli, the unremarkable scion of one of Italy’s great industrialist families who, like Joel Glazer or that renowned football expert Josh Kroenke inherited all their power and wealth from mum and dad. The Spanish and Italian clubs who have trampled competition in their own leagues have finally unlocked the door to the one competitor whom they could not rein in: the Premier League, where a democracy of sorts existed and the super-majority of 14 meant that everyone shared the decision-making.
 
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k123

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I think the breakaway clubs hold all the cards and they know it. Even if the PL and FA want to make a stand on principle, everybody knows that NBC isn’t paying the PL $200m per year to broadcast a league of the Other 14 plus Watford, Norwich, Swansea, Brentford, Bournemouth etc. And that’s just for US media rights obviously. It’s the same with Spain and Italy too. How in demand are La Liga rights without Barca, Real, and Atletico?

Just to be clear, I despise the idea of this Super League. If you want to stage a hostile takeover and create your own revamped CL, go for it and call it whatever you want. Create a closed system though for 15 of the 20 competitors and I call BS immediately. If they go through with this, I hope their local fans abandon the clubs in droves. Season ticket sales crater, atmosphere in the stadiums withers and dies. Let them play in COVID empty stadiums and rake in their media money from international streams.

Fan pressure and player pressure might be the only thing that gets everybody to back away from the ledge. If enough big name players were to come out and say they don’t support this and would seek a transfer away/vow to never play for these clubs, you might see some minds change. I think the boardrooms of these clubs are gambling that they can feed their fans **** sandwiches and they won’t get enough pushback for it to hurt. It is telling that the leadership for all of these clubs have basically gone underground since this has been announced. If this is a universally good thing, why aren’t they out there singing the praises of the ESL and outlining all the benefits that it will bring to football overall?

Yeah...all of these good/tough ideas seem less likely with legal challenges, and unintended consequences of FIFA's restrictions on government oversight of leagues. I'd assume the ESL lawyers have wargamed out a response to most all of them...

Throwing the Big Six out of the Premier League
The 14 other Premier League clubs will meet on Tuesday to decide how to react to the Super League. There have been calls for the Big Six to be expelled from the competition, which would usually require a three-quarters majority. That could be got round using another rule banning clubs entering rebel competitions, something for which they can be sanctioned.

Any sanction would be fought by the Big Six, while expelling them from the Premier League altogether would also risk them setting up a rival domestic league and inviting other clubs to join them. Another option is to use the voting power of the 14 to change the Premier League rules in other areas to hurt the Big Six – although this would again risk a domestic breakaway.

Throw them out of the Champions League and Europa League
This appears a much more credible threat, with Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin confirming plans to do just that – potentially even from this season’s semi-finals. Executive committee member Jesper Moller later said he expected their expulsion on Friday. Again, expect anything like that to be contested legally by the clubs involved. Also, even if it survived a legal challenge, Uefa would need to work out how to finish the Champions League and Europa League, possibly by drafting in beaten clubs.

Bring in the 50+1 rule
Oliver Dowden, the Culture Secretary, revealed the German model of majority supporter ownership would be looked at by the Government’s fan-led review of English football. But the German model exists through agreement of the clubs and it is hard to see the owners of the 14 other Premier League clubs backing this. Also, Government interference in football is banned by Fifa, which may decide imposing the 50+1 rule to be a step too far.

Ban the Big Six’s players from the World Cup and European Championship
Designed to fuel player opposition to the Super League, this would be met by a legal challenge from world players’ union FifPro as well as the clubs involved. Even if it survived such a challenge, would the likes of the Football Association really want England to play Euro 2020 without their best players? Ceferin owes his presidency to the votes of national associations.
 

shagcarpetjesus

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Apr 18, 2006
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There’s an interesting article on The Athletic going over the reaction of players and agents to the whole ESL drama. One interesting point an agent brought up was that there’s a standard clause in Premier League contracts (Clause 6.1.1) that covers a club’s obligations to the player. One of those obligations is that the club will do nothing to prevent a player from representing their country.

The agent argued that if FIFA/UEFA do attempt to ban players from international competition due to the actions of their clubs, agents might have a legal argument to say clubs are in breach of the above clause and thus players could void their contracts and leave their club.
 

CyDude16

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Oct 2, 2008
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Heads in the sky
If the super league happens, my interest in Arsenal will wain some. I’ll still watch but I’ll invest more of my time in watching West Ham, Portsmouth, and Forest Green tbh.
 

ISUCubswin

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Mar 3, 2011
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My Playhouse
Last 10 years I’ve been on a crusade that requires soccer move to a one league format so I can follow one team yet still know the best players in the game.

I didn’t realize the destruction my crusade would cause, and for that, I apologize.
 

shagcarpetjesus

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Apr 18, 2006
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It’s hilarious how all these suits in board rooms have lit this Super League fuse, and are now hiding away in their offices and letting their coaches and players field all the questions from the media on a decision that they (coaches/players) had nothing to do with. Bunch of ******* cowards.
 

shagcarpetjesus

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Apr 18, 2006
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If the super league happens, my interest in Arsenal will wain some. I’ll still watch but I’ll invest more of my time in watching West Ham, Portsmouth, and Forest Green tbh.

Do you actually watch Forest Green matches? I have a FIFA career where Forest Green has moved from League Two to the Premier League and Champions League. I’m super impressed if you’re watching a League Two team on the reg.
 

Cy$

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Sep 1, 2011
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Ames
talking on discord about this as it happens. United getting sold apparently would be huge
 

jcisuclones

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Nov 23, 2011
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As a United supporter, I love how much this went from one of the worst possible things that could ever happen to the club, to the best possible thing that could happen, aside from another UCL trophy, with Woodward leaving with his tail between his legs, and the Glazers rumored to be close to doing the same.
 

dmg89

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As a United supporter, I love how much this went from one of the worst possible things that could ever happen to the club, to the best possible thing that could happen, aside from another UCL trophy, with Woodward leaving with his tail between his legs, and the Glazers rumored to be close to doing the same.
I'm hopeful the same thing happens with Arsenal and Stan.
 

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