OT: Making A Murderer on Netflix

[TXCyclones]

As captivating as this documentary is I can't get over the fact that so many people watching forget the fact that an innocent girl was brutally murdered and her corpse mutilated. The attention this is getting, has got to open up some old wounds for the family. Can't imagine what they are going through.

I don't think anyone forgets this point. But with all of the questions left hanging wouldn't you think the victim's family wants the right person(s) behind bars?

 

[jsb]

As captivating as this documentary is I can't get over the fact that so many people watching forget the fact that an innocent girl was brutally murdered and her corpse mutilated. The attention this is getting, has got to open up some old wounds for the family. Can't imagine what they are going through.

So injustice shouldn't be pointed out because the family will feel bad? The whole thing does suck for them. But I would hate knowing that things were handled so badly. If Avery did do it (and I'm not convinced he didn't), the police should have done a much better job figuring that out.

 

[jsb]

I thought this was interesting


Unless you have been sitting in the courtroom and have had the opportunity to hear all of the evidence, it is really not possible or fair to second guess the jury verdict. Clearly the documentarians here had a point of view and skewed their presentation to support only their point of view. We are getting only that evidence that they want us to see, and that bolsters their belief that SA is not guilty. Folks, this was never intended to be an unbiased, objective presentation, otherwise why not include the finding of DNA evidence on the hood latch, why not include the fact that SA specifically requested Teresa when he booked the appointment, that he called her three times that day -- twice using *67 to hide his identity, why not mention that the bullet found in the garage matched a .22 rifle in SA's house, etc.

Everyone talks about how Avery called and requested Teresa for the photoshoot. Yeah, that's creepy. But having a crush on a woman (and at this point there is nothing to suggest that he was anything more than a bit creepy with her) is a long ways from murder. If every woman that got hit on by a creepy guy was murdered by that guy, life would cease to exist.

As far as the DNA on the hood latch goes. I can think of a lot of reasons why that would be on there without murder being the reason.

The big thing is that they weren't able to find any DNA when this woman was killed. They managed to sanitize the entire house and garage. I suppose, she could have been killed outside.

 

[clonedude]

So injustice shouldn't be pointed out because the family will feel bad? The whole thing does suck for them. But I would hate knowing that things were handled so badly. If Avery did do it (and I'm not convinced he didn't), the police should have done a much better job figuring that out.

This ^. If I were a family member, I would want to find out who the real killer is, not put some innocent guy behind bars while the real killer is still out there. That's one thing that really bothered me about this case, her family seemed dead set on putting Avery in prison versus trying to find out the facts.

 

[Colorado]

Stayed up until 2am last night to finish watching. What a great series. I agree that the series has an agenda. I'm not sure that it goes as far as to say that he's innocent, rather, I think it is trying to show that the State didn't prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Cyclonesince78]

Everyone talks about how Avery called and requested Teresa for the photoshoot. Yeah, that's creepy. But having a crush on a woman (and at this point there is nothing to suggest that he was anything more than a bit creepy with her) is a long ways from murder. If every woman that got hit on by a creepy guy was murdered by that guy, life would cease to exist.

As far as the DNA on the hood latch goes. I can think of a lot of reasons why that would be on there without murder being the reason.

The big thing is that they weren't able to find any DNA when this woman was killed. They managed to sanitize the entire house and garage. I suppose, she could have been killed outside.

I just don't buy this part. These are some of the dumbest people that inhabit the planet, I doubt they would have been able to successfully remove DNA from the scene. Because of how truly dumb these people are, there is no way they can be guilty IMO, because there would have likely been many mistakes that the authorities would have found with a DNA kit.

 

[CyJack13]

No jimlad from me. Someone's life is on the line and it's put into the hands of people who can't form a coherent sentence. Sorry, it's just true. This case is the perfect example. Casey Anthony. OJ. And these are just the high profile cases in the national spotlight. Think about those that nobody pays attention to that end up as complete miscarriages of justice every day, just because a juror is tired and wants to get home to his/her family, doesn't understand the complexities of the evidence presented, lacks the confidence to voice an honest opinion that goes against the majority, or is just a complete dipsh!t walking the streets. These are real reasons that innocent people get sent to prison for life. This guy already lost 18 years of his life because it happened to him once. 18 years. Pretty easy to shrug it off from a distance.

Very true, the FBI's testing of Avery's blood samples for preservative chemicals is a good example of this. What are most jurors going to take from that, that the FBI tested it and didn't detect any chemicals or the intricacies of test procedures and control samples and that the FBI didn't have an established minimum detection level to confidently prove that it was a legitimate test? The fact that the FBI witness said he was confident there wasn't any preservative chemicals in any of the samples he didn't even test also had me shaking my head.

It was also pretty telling that the jury's first vote had seven not guilty votes and only three guilty votes, but the ones who had decided he was guilty were by far the most stubborn.

 

[Tre4ISU]

This ^. If I were a family member, I would want to find out who the real killer is, not put some innocent guy behind bars while the real killer is still out there. That's one thing that really bothered me about this case, her family seemed dead set on putting Avery in prison versus trying to find out the facts.

Oh please. If this happened to you, you'd want the head of the first guy they talked to.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I thought that the attitude of the Manitowoc Sheriff's department and the Prosecutors was disturbing and consistent with a group of people that have something to hide. The Judge not allowing the Defense to present alternate suspects is also suspicious to me. At the beginning of the investigation they stated the Manitowoc Sheriff's department would not be involved, and that clearly was nothing more than a public relations move. The Prosecution and Sheriff's Department also expertly used the media to slander Avery and pollute the jury pool.

It is shocking to me that the strongest pieces of physical evidence against Avery were found by Manitowoc Officers, the bullet and the toyota key with only Avery's DNA which is really fishy. I mean, Avery cleans the key of any DNA but his own, but also leaves his own blood in the car on the property? It's not how it happened, and that is no proof of Avery's innocence, but in my mind creates reasonable doubt.

The refusal to investigate anyone besides Avery doomed that investigation to doubt at the beginning. It looks like confirmation bias.

 

[CYCLNST8]

On one hand the prosecution asks you to believe that Steve & Brenden were meticulous enough to prevent any of Teresa's DNA or blood from being discovered in the bedroom or the garage, yet they were dumb enough to burn her remains in the back yard, leave the vehicle in their lot, and the key in the bedroom? That Steve was dumb enough to rape & murder right after getting out of prison with a potentially huge paycheck waiting for him? It just doesn't add up.

Maybe Steve did kill Teresa outside & used her vehicle to transport her body to his backyard for disposal, but I'm thoroughly convinced that Brenden does not have the cognitive capacity to assist with this.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I just don't buy this part. These are some of the dumbest people that inhabit the planet, I doubt they would have been able to successfully remove DNA from the scene. Because of how truly dumb these people are, there is no way they can be guilty IMO, because there would have likely been many mistakes that the authorities would have found with a DNA kit.

They found Avery's DNA on the floor in the garage, so it had not been bleached or cleaned with that purpose in mind.

After listening to Serial and related podcasts, and now this series, it is clear that our Justice system is using techniques that will secure convictions, but not solve crimes. It also seems that we are going to live with false confessions and the techniques used to secure them, for some time.

One big takeaway for me is the level of disadvantage the average citizen is in when accused of a crime. The State has what seems like limitless resources, manpower and administrative advantage in discovery.

 

[CyJack13]

On one hand the prosecution asks you to believe that Steve & Brenden were meticulous enough to prevent any of Teresa's DNA or blood from being discovered in the bedroom or the garage, yet they were dumb enough to burn her remains in the back yard, leave the vehicle in their lot, and the key in the bedroom? That Steve was dumb enough to rape & murder right after getting out of prison with a potentially huge paycheck waiting for him? It just doesn't add up.

Maybe Steve did kill Teresa outside & used her vehicle to transport her body to his backyard for disposal, but I'm thoroughly convinced that Brenden does not have the cognitive capacity to assist with this.

That's by far the most disturbing part of this, there's no evidence whatsoever that he had anything to do with it besides his own confession. And his confession was so obviously manipulated out of him by the police and changed many times over the course of him retelling it. His lawyer, Len, is probably the creepiest person in all of this, how many other clients has he completely screwed over?

 

[Miniclone11]

They found Avery's DNA on the floor in the garage, so it had not been bleached or cleaned with that purpose in mind.

After listening to Serial and related podcasts, and now this series, it is clear that our Justice system is using techniques that will secure convictions, but not solve crimes. It also seems that we are going to live with false confessions and the techniques used to secure them, for some time.

One big takeaway for me is the level of disadvantage the average citizen is in when accused of a crime. The State has what seems like limitless resources, manpower and administrative advantage in discovery.

what he said in the show "poor people have no chance" - or something like that. It can definitely be the case at times.

 

[ISUCubswin]

That was one hell of a documentary.

I'm not going to get involved as to whether he killed her or not. I wasn't a part of the case.

I will say...

I don't understand how all these blood stains ever got in her car if her body was burned in his backyard?

I don't understand how it took so many times for that key to be found lying right in the open?

I don't understand why the test tube was ever touched.

I don't understand how it seemed every single persons timeline in the case was way off...and it wasn't just by minutes, it was by hours.

However...

I do understand an officer knowing the type of car and license plate number of a car if it's the car of a missing person before the car is actually found.

Overall verdict from ISUCubswin:

Steven Avery shold not be spending life in jail.

However, I do not want Steven Avery around my family.

I'm not 100% sold that he's innocent. But I'm not 100% sure he's guilty, which is why he shouldn't be in jail.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

what he said in the show "poor people have no chance" - or something like that. It can definitely be the case at times.

And his lawyers in this case, IMO, were phenomenal, but had their hands tied by the judge.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Also, the judge really set me off near the end, when he said something along the lines of "you're whole life, every time you have something looking up for you, you throw it away and make horrible, awful choices" or something along those lines.

Judge, he was in jail for 18 years. Had an awful life. And it appeared his wrongful sentencing from his "rape" case was going to just be marked as an "oops" in the justice department and no one would get in trouble.

The law gave him no opportunity to rebuild his life.

 

[ISUCubswin]

And his lawyers in this case, IMO, were phenomenal, but had their hands tied by the judge.

They absolutely dominated. No doubt in my mind I would want them on my side in court. Always had the right questions, were great with the media, and constantly finding reasons why their client was innocent.

 

[Colorado]

Sgt Colburn running the plate two days before it's found? He didn't call dispatch to confirm the plate, he called in and requested that it be searched in their system. The plate would have already been common knowledge by LEOs due to the missing person report. By calling it in, he's trying to establish that it had been found.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Just finished the first episode last night. Truly compelling. Tried to get the wife to stay up and watch more. Hopefully we can watch more tonight.


I think being on Netflix helps this documentary format. No commercial breaks to pull you away really keeps you engaged.

 

[Colorado]

What about Halbach's voicemail box? It fills up for a couple of days and the brother "hacks" into her messages, don't delete any but the inbox is somehow not full? What was deleted?

edit: it was the brother that got into vm