JP owes a lot more to Fred than Fred owes to JP. We couldn't get any good coaching candidates when LE was canned, and the program was in a heck of a lot better shape than when Creighton saved us from GMac. Just what good coach was going to come to ISU with the huge mess the program was in when GMac left? Nobody, that's who. Fred came home and absolutely saved ISU basketball and probably JP's job along with it. Apparently Fred was interested in the job when JP hired GMac. Had JP skipped over Fred again and we ended up with another one of his hires like GMac or Chizik, he would be long gone by now.
Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard
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JP owes a lot more to Fred than Fred owes to JP. We couldn't get any good coaching candidates when LE was canned, and the program was in a heck of a lot better shape than when Creighton saved us from GMac. Just what good coach was going to come to ISU with the huge mess the program was in when GMac left? Nobody, that's who. Fred came home and absolutely saved ISU basketball and probably JP's job along with it. Apparently Fred was interested in the job when JP hired GMac. Had JP skipped over Fred again and we ended up with another one of his hires like GMac or Chizik, he would be long gone by now.
The Rag did an entire story on this recently - he gets 25k for winning the B12 tourney and 25k for getting into the NCAA tourney. Then I believe it is an additional 25k for each NCAA tourney win and 100k for a NC.
Interestingly enough the Rag did not have anything to say about Frantic and how much he could get by getting into a game that gave them a chance to be considered the 64th best team in the country.
Lots of great ideas and opinions on this. Hopefully something gets done and Fred can coach my boy someday (he is 4).
Give him another big raise. If we had to go out and hire the equivalent of Hoiberg, it would probably cost us $5 million a year. And it still wouldn't be Hoiberg. Think about the candidates we would attract if he left....first it would take some with some balls to be the guy to replace Hoiberg, second, there is no way we could afford that person. Fred is a ******* bargain at the $1.7 million (or whatever he makes this year). And he would be a bargain at $3 million.
Jamie's conversations with Fred should entirely consist of Jamie asking Fred, "What can I do to make you happy? I will do anything."
Jamie's conversations with Fred should entirely consist of Jamie asking Fred, "What can I do to make you happy? I will do anything."
It is your type of mindset that ended up with Ferentz becoming the $4 million man. How did that turn out?
I am now apt to think of the lost decade as when we tried to escape the gravity of Fred's dreaminess, only to realize later on that it's too strong. And then, something, something...if you love it, set it free, something, something.
Are you serious? Very well. I would have loved to see Ferentz walk and they have to hire someone new after 2002. Iowa's success over the past 15 years is perhaps unparalleled in their history, at worst second best 15 year run. They are printing money at a clip even they have never seen and they have two BCS games.
Even then, comparing Ferentz and what he means to Iowa football to Fred and Iowa State University is a joke. It is also just downright stupid to think Fred is going to sit there counting his money if by some chance things went poorly. It is essentially a no risk situation to offer make him paid his market value.
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Serious question, do you know why they offered $99 tickets?
Edit: after reading the rest of your responses, you don't. So let me explain it to you.
They sold them at a huge discount just to sell them and get what revenue they could, you know better than empty seats. Now, you can increase the value of those seats 100 or 200 percent. College athletics is a business. We can now command that money for those seats. To the poster that said he'd stop buying, sorry. But there will be more people in line to buy them.
And the only similarities between Fred and Ferentz is that they both coach in the state of Iowa. Fred is Ames and Iowa State, Kirk is the caretaker of a program for a period of time.
I'm not even sure what Fred wants for resources, but Jamie Pollard let's Fred go over penny pinching, he will be gone right after. I like Jamie, and know that he's smart enough to realize this. If and when Fred leaves, it won't be because Jamie didn't do enough.
We have had some success. But we are not at an Elite Level.......yet. Now is not the time to over react and pay $3 million plus for our young coach. His time will come IMO. I love Fred. We are a good fit for him and he for us. We have made the Sweet Sixteen. We have not won the National Championship. Keep it in perspective.
You sound like an Iowa fan. First, he is NOT making market value now. He's just not.
Second, if he were to start to have some problems at Iowa State, he'd leave for the NBA (who would still want him if he sucked at Iowa State), so it would never be a Captain Kirk situation with Hoiberg.
I find it odd that an Iowa State fan would be so against paying a coach their fair market value.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Two sides to that: College athletics is specifically not a business, or a non-profit one. The idea of cashing in on college sports is a little bit touchy, probably especially for Iowans.
There will always be an entry-level price point ticket price. There has to be in order to bring people in. It doesn't need to be $99, as awesome as that was. It probably doesn't need to be $200 in central Iowa, although that wouldn't rule me out.
1.)You call it over-reacting, but it is actually about not being reactionary. You do not make contracts based on what someone has accomplished, you pay for what they will accomplish. You also do not pay based on what someone else is getting somewhere else. This market is not that competitive. There are not ready substitutes. Ben Howland went to 3 FF in 8 eight years, but was fired because of what they thought he was going to do. Of course, what they have done is often a large input into estimating what they can do, and thus their value.
2..) You do not solely decide what the market value is. Other suitors will not wait for you to make up your mind. Fred's market value is high, but before you think that is too high for ISU to pay...
3.) you better consider the alternative. Offering Fred $3 million as opposed to 2.25 or 2.5 is nothing considering the transaction and delay costs of getting an equal revenue generating replacement (see 2002-2012) Which, when considering externaliites with very real monetary consequences, is almost impossible.
The going rate for a young college coach like Fred is easily around 2.25 to 2.5 million in the college market. It would not be easy to hire a major conference coach with 3 tournaments in the last 5 years, let alone 3 for 3, for anything less. If we want a coach that looks to have as much success, we will have to pay that at some point. Either that, or you go with the cheap blindfold selection that took us through the 10 years of 2002-12.
4.) Risk-reward- Due to the NBA and his unprecedented success at ISU, his market value is probably near $3, maybe north of that given Stevens got 3.66 What are the risks of offering him $3 as opposed to the $2.5 that is the rate for his replacement? Do you think if the unimaginable happens and things go sideways, Fred is going to sit there counting C-notes? Nope.It would take some real poor leadership to fret over paying around another 500k now, or to wait and make such an offer when his market value has increased yet again.
Some may say, but "he is not looking to leave", "he is not going to leverage the University to pay him that. Fred is not about the money". One way to make it about the money is to always drag your feet on what amounts to such a small amount relative to what he brings for the entire Iowa State University brand.
It is about appreciation, and a big way to do that is to have the faith to do it now, especially considering how little added risk it would be.
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Tell me. What is market value for a 4th year coach at a Big 12 school? Tell us.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/2013/03/15/the-most-overpaid-college-basketball-coaches-2/
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I understand this, I really do. Part of the downside to living somewhere with no professional sports teams is people aren't able to really see market value in a sports product.
But one of the genuine things that has relegated Iowa State to the status it has as an athletic department is the unwillingness of fans to pay for the product. I'm sorry, times are different. Coaches are the faces of your AD. No-one has brought more to this university over the past ten years than Fred Hoiberg. The dollar amount he has generated cannot be under stated.
I understand your reference to the way people think around here as well. But many of these same folks don't bat an eye at writing big checks to Iowa for football tickets. As long as Fred keeps the program moving forward and establishes a level of performance that continues to excite the fans, both die-hard and casual, the market for those tickets will be there. No more $99 tickets, the AD can generate more revenue for those same seats.
I'm fairly certain the same folks preaching patience in giving Fred elite money will be amongst the first to complain if he leaves because he's not making market value (see Cael).
Brad Stevens took Butler to back to back National Title games. As great as Fred has been for us, Fred has not had that type of success....yet. I am not saying that we should not continue to reward Fred for a job well done. I am just saying that at this time it is a bit outrageous to say that we should be paying upwards of over $3 million per year at this time. It is a bit premature. In order to make the $3 million plus club you need to start making Final Fours and playing in National Championship games.
Whatever his suitors decided, which for Fred, could be more than a 10-year Big 12 coach with more data (and fortune in the tournament). This is not buying indistinguishable, standardized products here.
And Stevens had little to no NBA background, whereas Hoiberg does.
Stevens did not get hired by the Celtics, and ultimately paid that much as a reward for reaching 2 National Title games. Would the Celtics have paid more if that buzzer beater would have dropped and they won? Not really. Although it changes YOUR argument, the NBA is not offering Stevens and Fred because of what happens based on one shot or call (see ISU-OSU too). Such happenstance and luck matters to a simpleton list of accomplishments and a CF poster, but it is not going to change how the NBA views you, or even smart ADs.
The bottom-line is you think ISU determines Fred's market value based on what Fred has accomplished for ISU on the court in a few games over the past 4 years. That just is not true, for a myriad of reasons. If ISU disagrees and thinks Fred's market value is too high, or even if they think they need more data to decide, it should know that the alternatives are likely to be much more costly. More information is almost always expensive, especially when the difference is likely around only 500k. If our leaders cannot generate an additional 500k from an icon like Fred who has the program on a nearly unprecedented run in his 1st four years of coaching, that is a bigger problem.
We just did this contract less than 2 years ago. We can talk more money. But then I would want a much bigger buyout if he goes to the NBA in exchange. Right now the buyout is peanuts.
