It's a bad rule that is gamed by the best. Also called wildly inconsistently. Should be removed to make things more black and white.
Olympic Wrestling
- Thread starter DantheFan
- Start date
My take on Olympic styles (and Folkstyle): Folkstyle > Freestyle > Greco
Greco - Has to be the most boring style I have ever watched and it always has been. I'd consider myself a hard core wrestling fan but I can't even hardly watch this at the Olympics (or other world competitions). I understand why a wrestler would want to wrestle this style to improve his upper body game. However, even the GOAT's are boring to watch. I still remember watching Rulon Gardner beating another GOAT Alexander Karelin. IIRC it was because the both chest to chest the whole time and then in OT Rulon was awarded a point because Karelin broke his grip first... That was it. He broke his grip for a split second and that was the match. Boring... no shots, no scoring other than the 1 point penalty for breaking his grip.
Freestyle - I do like watching this but here are my Pros/Cons list:
Pro- similar to Folkstyle and you can attack upper body and lower body. You can also score from top position.
Pro - I do like the step out rule and I like that stalling isn't really decided by a singular ref. Even if a wrestler is put on a clock they have 30 seconds to score before a point is awarded.
Con - I don't like how someone can get a single move and end the match (not counting a pin - a pin should always end the match). Example: Get a leg lace or trap an arm and roll someone over and over to get the tech fall. The winner executed 1 move only 1 time... Compare this to Folkstyle if the wrestler does a single move the most he can score is 7 points.... He would have to execute this move at least twice with at least one other point to get to the Tech Fall level.
Con - Some of the scoring rules don't make sense to me. I saw one match when a wrestler gets a takedown and was awarded 2 points for TD. Then a second or two later (in the exact same position) he tilts the opponent for another 2 points. Total points scored was 4. I saw another match where a wrestler gets a takedown that ended up exposing the opponents back and it was only awarded 2 points total. I watched and and couldn't for the life of me figure out why he had not been awarded 4 points. The announcers (JB) said it was because he was only awarded the exposure points. Maybe someone can explain this one to me because I must be missing something.
Con - Grounding... the step out is a point unless the opponent completely stops wrestling and puts his knees on the mat as he's getting pushed out of bounds... suddenly it's not a point anymore... WTF
Folkstyle - My personal favorite... My wish would be to switch out Greco with Folkstyle in the Olympics and have 10 weights. (Then I might not even care about Freestyle)
Pros that I love:
Cons (areas I'd like to see improved)
Greco - Has to be the most boring style I have ever watched and it always has been. I'd consider myself a hard core wrestling fan but I can't even hardly watch this at the Olympics (or other world competitions). I understand why a wrestler would want to wrestle this style to improve his upper body game. However, even the GOAT's are boring to watch. I still remember watching Rulon Gardner beating another GOAT Alexander Karelin. IIRC it was because the both chest to chest the whole time and then in OT Rulon was awarded a point because Karelin broke his grip first... That was it. He broke his grip for a split second and that was the match. Boring... no shots, no scoring other than the 1 point penalty for breaking his grip.
Freestyle - I do like watching this but here are my Pros/Cons list:
Pro- similar to Folkstyle and you can attack upper body and lower body. You can also score from top position.
Pro - I do like the step out rule and I like that stalling isn't really decided by a singular ref. Even if a wrestler is put on a clock they have 30 seconds to score before a point is awarded.
Con - I don't like how someone can get a single move and end the match (not counting a pin - a pin should always end the match). Example: Get a leg lace or trap an arm and roll someone over and over to get the tech fall. The winner executed 1 move only 1 time... Compare this to Folkstyle if the wrestler does a single move the most he can score is 7 points.... He would have to execute this move at least twice with at least one other point to get to the Tech Fall level.
Con - Some of the scoring rules don't make sense to me. I saw one match when a wrestler gets a takedown and was awarded 2 points for TD. Then a second or two later (in the exact same position) he tilts the opponent for another 2 points. Total points scored was 4. I saw another match where a wrestler gets a takedown that ended up exposing the opponents back and it was only awarded 2 points total. I watched and and couldn't for the life of me figure out why he had not been awarded 4 points. The announcers (JB) said it was because he was only awarded the exposure points. Maybe someone can explain this one to me because I must be missing something.
Con - Grounding... the step out is a point unless the opponent completely stops wrestling and puts his knees on the mat as he's getting pushed out of bounds... suddenly it's not a point anymore... WTF
Folkstyle - My personal favorite... My wish would be to switch out Greco with Folkstyle in the Olympics and have 10 weights. (Then I might not even care about Freestyle)
Pros that I love:
- 3 pt takedown
- Up to 4 back points
- You have to show control and actually hold someone on their back for at least 2 seconds to score back points
- you can attach upper/lower body from the feet to get a takedown
- a wrestler has to escape from the bottom position (vs the ref letting them back up)
- someone good from the top position they can essentially dominate the match assuming they can get a TD
Cons (areas I'd like to see improved)
- Stall warnings are not consistent: Currently some step outs are considered stalling and other step outs are not... I would like to see the step out rule (as long as they don't add Grounding)... My Fix: Make it an automatic stall call to the wrestler who steps out first (IF/when both wrestlers go completely OOB)
- Stall warning on either Top and/or Bottom wrestlers when it's clear they cannot do anything. Example: Guy gets the leg in and keeps the bottom mans hips on the mat riding somewhat parallel... The Ref calls bottom man for stalling even though he cannot physically get up/move. The ref does not call stalling on the top guy even though it's clear he's only riding and not trying to turn opponent. My Fix: After 30 seconds of riding have the ref restart (as long as the back is not exposed). This would create more re-starts and give the bottom guy opportunities to not get tied up by the legs. IF the top guy is that good and get's the legs in let him ride again for 30 seconds before then next auto re-start. This eliminates the ref calling stalling on either bottom or top guy.
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I don’t want this to be anti-folkstyle because i love folkstyle too, i just think freestyle is the best product. A lot of people don’t like No Overtime/criteria, but with criteria someone is always ahead which creates action. It makes sense to me with a sport where cardio is such a big factor to have a defined time period a match will last. They also do a good job at getting challenges reviewed and decided quickly vs folkstyle where you have disasters like the Fix/Frost quarterfinal with long reviews and breaks every 30 seconds. I also like the push out, you cannot hang on the edge without punishment as we often see in folk, although the grounded rule is problematic.i also hate riding time and guys clinging on to get over the arbitrary 1 min to get the RT point, although the 3 pt takedown eliminated some of this
I do think folkstyle helps Americans in freestyle sometimes. The grind of folkstyle season prepares us well to win matches on toughness and conditioning. Likewise, freestyle compliments folkstyle and I’ve always encouraged kids to try it out in the off-season. It creates good habits - you have to shoot with your hips in and head up, finish quickly, or else you’ll pay dearly with head pinches and chest wraps resulting in exposure points - those are good habits to have in folkstyle for the most part, too.
Having said all of that, I don’t think folkstyle is going anywhere. No way you could get high school athletic associations to go for the risk that comes with some of the high amplitude throws we see in freestyle.
I like freestyle putting people on their feet when nothing happens. What kills folkstyle is the 2 minute rides. Casual fans get bored and stop paying attention. Freestyle is more movement
I would make back exposure worth 3 in freestyle and you can only get one so you gotta cut grip and move on.
When ever someone talks about this i immediately think of Ian Parker. I was a massive fan but I think that guy still thinks you get more than 1 point for riding a guy for 5 and half minutes.
Varner was a beast but there were several of his matches against solid opponents that would be Jake taking them down and then working a half for the rest of the period while the opponent basically belly out. If he ever got the half fully sunk it was over but he could have some long ride outs.
Not sure where this belongs, but just read Jason Nolf retiring. Kind of surprised as he seemed to be seemed to be next at 70/74Kg if Dake/Burroughs either decline or hang it up. I think this helps clear the way for David a bit also.
If Dake is done, David vs O'Toole for the olympic spot. Katie bar the door...
Definitely. 74kg should be wide open in 2028.
If Dake sticks around, he’s still the favorite right now, but he’ll be 37 I believe. David, O’Toole, and Messenbrink are probably the next top contenders.
Just so I'm not misleading...Burroughs has already said he's making another run at the world team, though presumably at 79kg. And as far as I know, Dake has made not statements one way or the other. Just speculation based on how long they've been at it.
I was more so projecting what I was hoping for. I forgot that bit about Burroughs. He's no spring chicken anymore though.
