Players aren't old enough to remember the 90's anymore. The market isn't good enough to overcome the reputation of the front office to draw anyone of note. The knicks have the same problem.
NBA: ***Official NBA Draft and Offseason Thread***
- Thread starter jbindm
- Start date
Players aren't old enough to remember the 90's anymore. The market isn't good enough to overcome the reputation of the front office to draw anyone of note. The knicks have the same problem.
ESPN;s Kevin Pelton posted a ranking of the past 8 high profile trades. Pretty interesting...
FWIW Pelton graded the T-Wolves an A and Bull a F in his trade grade analysis but it isn't the worse trade from a value received perspective.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...eekly-mailbag-including-most-prepared-rookies
1. Deron Williams, Utah Jazz, to New Jersey Nets, February 2011
Return: Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, 2011 first-round pick (No. 3, used on Enes Kanter) and a 2013 first-round pick (No. 21, used on Gorgui Dieng)
Favors had been the third pick of the 2010 draft, so the Jazz essentially got a pair of No. 3 picks for Williams. I'd argue that both were more valuable than anything the Bulls got for Butler. Harris was also a league-average player on a reasonable contract. As if that wasn't enough, Utah also got an extra first-rounder. What a haul.
2. Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets, to New York Knicks, February 2011
Return: Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Kosta Koufos, Timofey Mozgov, 2014 first-round pick (No. 12, used on Dario Saric), 2016 pick swap (from No. 9 to No. 7), two second-round picks
The Nuggets basically got a whole lineup out of the Anthony trade, which set them up to go 18-7 the remainder of the season, 38-28 the following year and 57-25 in 2012-13 after adding Andre Iguodala. It's worth noting Denver also benefited from moving Chauncey Billups' salary in the trade. The Knicks used their amnesty provision on Billups months later to clear cap room to sign Tyson Chandler as a free agent.
3. Kevin Love, Minnesota Timberwolves, to Cleveland Cavaliers, August 2014
Return: Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins and Thaddeus Young
While this was billed as a pair of No. 1 picks for Love, Bennett clearly didn't have that kind of trade value after a dismal rookie season. I'd say he was closer to a late-first-round pick at that point. Still, the Timberwolves got the No. 1 pick (Wiggins) in what was considered a loaded draft, and they could have had another first-round pick had they not shortsightedly sent it to the Philadelphia 76ers for Young as a replacement for Love. Minnesota ended up trading Young to the Brooklyn Nets at the trade deadline to bring Kevin Garnett back home.
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets, to LA Clippers, December 2011
Return: Al-Farouq Aminu, Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman and 2012 Minnesota first-round pick (No. 10, used on Austin Rivers)
Hindsight hasn't been kind to this trade, largely because knee injuries kept Gordon from making good on his potential in New Orleans. He was unquestionably a far better prospect at the time than Zach LaVine is now, Aminu is comparable to Kris Dunn, and while the Timberwolves' first-round pick ended up lower than expected, the 10th pick was still more valuable than the trade up from No. 16 to No. 7.
5. Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic, to Los Angeles Lakers in four-team deal, August 2012
Return: Arron Afflalo, Christian Eyenga, Al Harrington, Maurice Harkless, Josh McRoberts, Nikola Vucevic, 2014 New York first-round pick (No. 12, used on Dario Saric), protected 2016 Philadelphia first-round pick (later traded back to the 76ers)
This package didn't have any standout, since Harkless and Vucevic were midround picks. But there was plenty of depth. The Magic were able to trade Afflalo back to the Denver Nuggets for Evan Fournier a year later, and Fournier, Harkless and Vucevic are all NBA starters. Orlando ended up using the two first-round picks to move up from No. 12 to No. 10 to get Elfrid Payton. The Magic also got off Jason Richardson's salary, though they took some back in Harrington and McRoberts.
6. Jimmy Butler, Chicago Bulls, to Minnesota Timberwolves, June
Return: Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine, No. 7 pick (used on Lauri Markkanen)
7. DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento Kings, to New Orleans Pelicans, February
Return: Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway, Buddy Hield, top-three protected first-round pick (No. 10, traded to Portland for No. 15 and No. 20), second-round pick (No. 34, used on Frank Mason III)
I think these returns were closer than conventional wisdom might suggest. While the Bulls got the better pick, they also had to give up No. 16 and didn't get the extra second-rounder. Dunn and Hield were fairly comparable in value at the time of the trade, so LaVine is the only advantage for Chicago despite the fact that Cousins' trade value was complicated by his reputation and desire to squash a deal.
8. Pau Gasol, Memphis Grizzlies, to Lakers, February 2008
Return: Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Marc Gasol, Aaron McKie, 2008 first-round pick (No. 28, used on Donte Greene) and 2010 first-round pick (No. 28, used on Greivis Vasquez)
It's important to remember here I'm evaluating these packages as they looked at the time of the trade. While Marc Gasol was playing well in Spain and looked more valuable than where he was drafted, I'd still assess his value close to a late-first-round pick rather than the All-Star center he's become. Crittenton was a 19th pick who had barely played, and both of the future picks were at the back end of the first round, so perhaps the biggest thing the Grizzlies seemed to get out of this trade was cap relief. Memphis ended up turning that flexibility into Zach Randolph, and he and Marc Gasol made the Grizzlies contenders.
FWIW Pelton graded the T-Wolves an A and Bull a F in his trade grade analysis but it isn't the worse trade from a value received perspective.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...eekly-mailbag-including-most-prepared-rookies
1. Deron Williams, Utah Jazz, to New Jersey Nets, February 2011
Return: Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, 2011 first-round pick (No. 3, used on Enes Kanter) and a 2013 first-round pick (No. 21, used on Gorgui Dieng)
Favors had been the third pick of the 2010 draft, so the Jazz essentially got a pair of No. 3 picks for Williams. I'd argue that both were more valuable than anything the Bulls got for Butler. Harris was also a league-average player on a reasonable contract. As if that wasn't enough, Utah also got an extra first-rounder. What a haul.
2. Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets, to New York Knicks, February 2011
Return: Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Kosta Koufos, Timofey Mozgov, 2014 first-round pick (No. 12, used on Dario Saric), 2016 pick swap (from No. 9 to No. 7), two second-round picks
The Nuggets basically got a whole lineup out of the Anthony trade, which set them up to go 18-7 the remainder of the season, 38-28 the following year and 57-25 in 2012-13 after adding Andre Iguodala. It's worth noting Denver also benefited from moving Chauncey Billups' salary in the trade. The Knicks used their amnesty provision on Billups months later to clear cap room to sign Tyson Chandler as a free agent.
3. Kevin Love, Minnesota Timberwolves, to Cleveland Cavaliers, August 2014
Return: Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins and Thaddeus Young
While this was billed as a pair of No. 1 picks for Love, Bennett clearly didn't have that kind of trade value after a dismal rookie season. I'd say he was closer to a late-first-round pick at that point. Still, the Timberwolves got the No. 1 pick (Wiggins) in what was considered a loaded draft, and they could have had another first-round pick had they not shortsightedly sent it to the Philadelphia 76ers for Young as a replacement for Love. Minnesota ended up trading Young to the Brooklyn Nets at the trade deadline to bring Kevin Garnett back home.
4. Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets, to LA Clippers, December 2011
Return: Al-Farouq Aminu, Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman and 2012 Minnesota first-round pick (No. 10, used on Austin Rivers)
Hindsight hasn't been kind to this trade, largely because knee injuries kept Gordon from making good on his potential in New Orleans. He was unquestionably a far better prospect at the time than Zach LaVine is now, Aminu is comparable to Kris Dunn, and while the Timberwolves' first-round pick ended up lower than expected, the 10th pick was still more valuable than the trade up from No. 16 to No. 7.
5. Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic, to Los Angeles Lakers in four-team deal, August 2012
Return: Arron Afflalo, Christian Eyenga, Al Harrington, Maurice Harkless, Josh McRoberts, Nikola Vucevic, 2014 New York first-round pick (No. 12, used on Dario Saric), protected 2016 Philadelphia first-round pick (later traded back to the 76ers)
This package didn't have any standout, since Harkless and Vucevic were midround picks. But there was plenty of depth. The Magic were able to trade Afflalo back to the Denver Nuggets for Evan Fournier a year later, and Fournier, Harkless and Vucevic are all NBA starters. Orlando ended up using the two first-round picks to move up from No. 12 to No. 10 to get Elfrid Payton. The Magic also got off Jason Richardson's salary, though they took some back in Harrington and McRoberts.
6. Jimmy Butler, Chicago Bulls, to Minnesota Timberwolves, June
Return: Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine, No. 7 pick (used on Lauri Markkanen)
7. DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento Kings, to New Orleans Pelicans, February
Return: Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway, Buddy Hield, top-three protected first-round pick (No. 10, traded to Portland for No. 15 and No. 20), second-round pick (No. 34, used on Frank Mason III)
I think these returns were closer than conventional wisdom might suggest. While the Bulls got the better pick, they also had to give up No. 16 and didn't get the extra second-rounder. Dunn and Hield were fairly comparable in value at the time of the trade, so LaVine is the only advantage for Chicago despite the fact that Cousins' trade value was complicated by his reputation and desire to squash a deal.
8. Pau Gasol, Memphis Grizzlies, to Lakers, February 2008
Return: Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Marc Gasol, Aaron McKie, 2008 first-round pick (No. 28, used on Donte Greene) and 2010 first-round pick (No. 28, used on Greivis Vasquez)
It's important to remember here I'm evaluating these packages as they looked at the time of the trade. While Marc Gasol was playing well in Spain and looked more valuable than where he was drafted, I'd still assess his value close to a late-first-round pick rather than the All-Star center he's become. Crittenton was a 19th pick who had barely played, and both of the future picks were at the back end of the first round, so perhaps the biggest thing the Grizzlies seemed to get out of this trade was cap relief. Memphis ended up turning that flexibility into Zach Randolph, and he and Marc Gasol made the Grizzlies contenders.
https://sports.yahoo.com/rumor-cavaliers-could-wait-chase-013049578.html
Starting 5 of Irving, Wade, Melo, Lebron, Love. Damn.
Starting 5 of Irving, Wade, Melo, Lebron, Love. Damn.
Lavine is younger than Butler but he's going to be up for a max deal in two years as well. His max won't be as much as what Butler is getting, but are you ready to have Lavine take up 25% of your cap? If he comes back healthy, somebody is going to throw him a max deal after the 2019 deal which the Bulls will have to match so it's not like the Bulls got more years of cheap team control out of this deal. He's also not a pg, Minnesota gave him a pretty long look there and it's just not going to happen, he's also been terrible defensively.
Marc Stein
✔@ESPNSteinLine
League sources: Cavs, Pacers and Nuggets have discussed a three-way deal that would land Paul George in Cleveland and Kevin Love in Denver
Monte might be on the move
Fred, just keep collecting those checks, you are a dead man walking in that organization. It's one thing for Red Auerbach to have to deal with bad management. It's a whole new thing for an ok college coach with no NBA coaching experience and sometimes too mild mannered demeanor to have to deal with it. With Jimmy gone, the organization put all of their eggs in Fred's basket. When the Bulls win 27 games this year, the beloved Mayor of Ames will be the scapegoat (whether you think that's fair or unfair) of another down year in large part because everyone in Chicago has a vendetta against Iowa State from Floyd and Fizer which will lead to added pressure towards the management to go in a different direction. Big picture, a joke of an organization...
He's already picked out 22 games he's going to sit out this season.
'Mid November my shoulder hurts'
'Late December Gabrielle wants to go to Rome so my knee is acting up'
'It's January, hopefully Gar trades me. I better start playing some games so I can get traded to Cleveland and LeBron can carry me to another ring'
D-Whistle has been pulling this crap for years. LBJ had enough of it and said screw you, I'm leaving Miami. I'm tired of carrying your punk ass while you just tan on the beach and miss 30 some games.
I'd say 20 will be pushing it for them next year. It'll be fun to watch cause I hate the Bulls.
