You should see what they say on Kentucky forums about Cal and some of the players. What is said on here is nothing compared to that.
****Official Class of 2022 Recruiting Thread****
- Thread starter LLCoolCY
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The fans are wrecking the program? Not the state employee paid $2.3m to lead the MBB program?
This is either the best troll account I’ve ever seen on this site or the most delusional.
No it's not. It's been argued ad nauseam for the last 6 years.
Considering you have been a member since 12' with only 65 posts. What happened, you woke up one morning and said "oh no"?
Like I said responding to your first post about your "points" having been hit around like a ping pong ball the last six years pertains to this post also. Regardless of who is on the roster.....since when have 23 and 26 win seasons ever been considered "underachieving" or "falling on your face" here at ISU? You know, you sound an awful like someone else I have debated.....maybe a different user? But I have time to waste this morning so what the heck.
So if you are serious about this "Hoiberg" fantasy, then like I have said to others.....now you are being subjective and it's easy to argue with that. Because you have to submit then that they would have easily won more that 23 games in 15-16 and 26 in 16-17 games. And I don't mean just a game or two. I'm talking pushing 30+ wins each year. And like others....you don't know that. You can't know that. No one can. But yet like many before.....here you are. And like many you never take into consideration they would have had to achieve those incredible 15-16 results without Naz. Yeah....good luck.
Also notice I left out any post season successes under CSP. Because of the UAB debacle under Fred, it has been concluded here on CF that hey...well...okay, anything can happen to anyone in the tourney. Well......cept for Steve's sweet sixteen run after that first underachieving season because ANY coach with ANY team could have made it with that draw. And oh......his loss to tOSU. Worse loss ever in tourney history. Totally unacceptable! So yeah, other than those two examples.....anything can happen to anyone.
And conference tourney hardware.......whatever? So they got hot over a weekend. Who cares! Never going to waste money on another weekend trip to KC and the Power @ Light, right? That's so 2015.
Barely a sniff, okay.
A rational person:
2015/16............good
2016/17............good
2017/18...........rebuild
2018/19............good
2019/20............bad
2020/21............bad/partial pass for protocols and restrictions. Everyone else who has only played 14 games by this time in February is.....why not Steve. Relax........it's just a "partial" pass.
So like I have said before....if your definition of "success" might be what some flowery future under Fred might have been......then in your eyes Steve has never had a chance. I loved me some Fred.....but that is a fantasy. And if you are straight with that fantasy, more power to you. I have no illusions. Steve hasn't been doing the job....................LATELY. If he is retained......I'm good. If he is not.......I'm good. Early in the year I would have argued.....not now. And I doubt Steve would either. So it's up to you, but maybe you might want to try and be rational with the past because none of it matters now. Unless your motive is to just rub dirt.
Right on. He hasn’t lost the team - they play hard. Need a few pieces coming next year and some more experience, which many are getting early due to COVID. I’d rather keep the players and Steve for next year.
Kentucky has a name that will continue to pull in players for years. We want to get where they are, where these fan attacks hurt less.
While I agree with the assessment of the seasons, the problem is people have different standards for success. For me, a 20 win plus season with a big 12 champ is a success, others may not see it that way. Are they wrong? No. Am I wrong? No. The only wrong thing in my eyes is pushing your views on to someone and getting worked up that theirs aren’t the same. That’s what we see here everyday With the needless coach bickering. Everyone just needs to accept people view situations differently and that’s fine
I understand. But if never under Steve, then when and under who should 20+ win seasons, Big 12 tourney championships and Sweet 16's be considered a success? Because I am fairly certain they were under the previous coach.
Official Class of 2022 Recruiting Thread
Thread titles are so misleading
Thread titles are so misleading
This is a lot to respond to.
-Because I don't post everyday makes my opinion invalid? Quit with the gatekeeping. I've been an everyday reader for a long time and I've supported Prohm in full up until fairly recently. So yeah, I did kind of just recently say "oh no".
-I could be wrong, but it seems like you're accusing me of having an Alt account? If so, lol.
-People have different definitions of success. As an earlier poster said, the differences we may have in how we view them don't make either of our views less valid. IMO, success is based mostly on how a season is finished (NCAA performance). I'd also put more weight on regular season conference finish than I would on B12 tourney performance. The B12 titles were GREAT and are absolutely a success that can be partly attributed to Prohm, but nobody really remembers those outside of our own fans. (Yes, right now I am going back on my earlier statement that Prohm "hasn't had a sniff of success". That was an exaggeration and I should have phrased it differently. My bad.)
-Your point about 23-26 win seasons being seen as a success... sure, but you have to admit that the standard for success was raised in the last decade. I'd like to keep it there. See above point about measuring success by postseason success. Again, everyone measures this differently.
-I think you are projecting the Fred stuff on to me. I am not a Fred Fantasizer (lol but I like that term). I didn't make a single Fred vs Steve comparison in any of my posts. The only thing I said was that Steve underachieved with Fred's players. I have no idea if Fred would have fared better.
My take:
2015/16............good, but I think most of us felt pretty sick after the performance vs. Virginia. I was at that game at the United Center and it took me a bit to get over it and look back at the season and realize it was a fun ride. I had high hopes man.
2016/17............decent. KC was great, but their ceiling was so much higher than a second round loss to Purdue. Having a single S16 after the last two years was tough to swallow. I base success off of the postseason, and by that definition I believe they underachieved.
2017/18...........get out of jail free card. tough to recover from that much loss.
2018/19............Failure. This is where we disagree the most. I really don't know how anyone could consider this season a success. To finish at .500 in B12 play, and then lay an egg against a bad OSU team in the first round with a roster as loaded as what we had was a MAJOR disappointment. Thinking back on it gives me gut rot.
2019/20............bad
2020/21............bad. Everyone is dealing with COVID. Look at Baylor. I don't give a partial pass. It's not like if they had had played those games theyd be a tourney team. See the SDSU game (Tre Jackson wouldn't have won that game for us.)
None of this is even mentioning the frequent in game coaching blunders, and WORST of all, the disappearance of Hilton Magic. The home losses are inexcusable and the apathy within the fan base breaks my heart. I was lucky enough to be a student during the beginning of the Hoiberg era and seeing HM rise from the ashes was spectacular. I missed one conference home game my entire time as a student and continued to make a few games a year in the years after. I don't believe HM is dead, it's just dormant and it can be brought back. We just need a new perspective in charge of the program to do that. I miss it so much.
(Braces for someone to call me out for being a student during the Hoiberg era and having it easy, or something. Yeah yeah. I get it.)
Cheers. Sorry for the long post.
Well, if every thread was titled, "General ***** and Moan" it would be difficult to discern between the flavors of ******** and moaning.
I think you are missing the issue. The player talent on this year's team isn't good enough to be a top 3/4 team in the Big 12. But it is good enough to NOT be 0-11 against P5 programs this year. I would argue we are talented enough to be a 4-5 win team at this point in the 2020/21 season. We stink because of our coaches, not our players. The problem is not only our head coach, but his assistants. We run a terrible offense, we can't defend or rebound. We are ranked near the bottom of 350 D1 programs some critical statistical categories. We aren't "kind-of" bad, we are historically bad for the ISU program! No influx of talent or additional experience is going to change our coaching staff and their approach to basketball. It hasn't happened in 3 years. Remember, the 2017-18 season was the start of the slide. After 4 years, there is no reset.
So to go all in for next year is a fools bet. It is just putting off until next year, what needs to happen in 1 month. If that means a total roster turnover- so be it. It will just be happening 1 year earlier.
Bolton is a really good player and ISU is lucky to have him, but he wouldn’t be the best player on a tourney team.
Maybe not. But at a minimum he is a significant building block. A guard with good/great straight line speed who has a mid-range game, 30% 3 pt range and a 80%+ free throw shooter who gets to the line 4-5 times a game. That may, or may not, be the centerpiece of a squad but it is certainly a #2 option on a NCAA tournament squad. And it could be a #1 option if you have competent parts around him and actually allow him to play the #2 without primary ball handling duties.
Bolton at the very least would be a Lucious type player on a really good team.
They don't play hard. Look at rebounding and on ball defense. We don't work as hard as our peers
I would love to keep the guys we have, add the guys committed for next year, and bring
in a coach who can coach them up in practice and in game. I think we could be very competitive.
in a coach who can coach them up in practice and in game. I think we could be very competitive.
My guess is we lose some of the guys that can grad transfer and be fine. Sometimes it's not bad to lose some of the guys so the new guy has some schollarships to work with
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