Mack Brown wins Big XII Coach of the Year; Sims and Smith get all-Big 12 awards
- Thread starter tejasclone
- Start date
Telling someone to "get a clue" is all of a sudden something that brings a mod to tell us to stop with the insults?!
IMO this has more to do with you being mad at PR not winning and then most people disagreeing with you. Nobody called you a name. It is ok to disagree. That is what is fun about message boards
My understanding is that the award is for the coach of the year...not team of the year or program of the year. You keep arguing records when the arguement should be placed on what a coach did with what he had. What coach got the most from his players....maybe it was Mack Brown but I think CPR is the man who got the most of his players. I look at things like:
Did his team improve more than others?
Did his team win games they shouldn't have?
Did his team play hard from game 1 to game 12?
Did his team win more games (a lot more games?) than many in the league thought they would?
These are the things to discuss more than records. I understand that's what you base the award off of so you are entitled to that opinion.
That's you're opinion .. and you're welcome to it.
I take it as an insult on posters (albiet minor one). Easy enough to post without it. Never said anyone called "me" anything.
You don't like it, take up via PM.
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These things definitely cut both ways for both coaches. You cannot fault a coach in this situation for having high expectations. That does not make his coaching job any easier.
By your criteria Mack Brown could win 10 Big 12 titles. Win 3 NCAA titles......and never win coach of the year. Does that sound right to you?
Just seems to me that with this line of thought you might as well just pass the award back and forth between Austin and Norman. There's a reason that a majority of the years UT and OU are nearly undefeated every season. Good coaching is a part of it for sure but talent, money, facilities, recruiting advantages and more money have just as much.
If the shoe fits.
Fact is, a few people on the Rhoads side of this debate simply could not handle Rhoads not getting the award and facts being presented by ISU fans (that were labeled as Horn fans) as to why Rhoads didn't get it and Brown did.
Rhoads lost to KU, A&M and Oklahoma State - two of which disposed of us without trouble.
Texas spanked two of them and defeated the other.
Which coach again got the the most from his players?
You keep saying records should not matter and then give the "Texas has more talent" argument as to why Brown should be viewed differently. So Brown shouldn't get it because he had better talent? Why is it ok to throw out one criteria but not others? Texas most certainly has better talent, but someone had to coach them, manage the games, etc. And lead them to only the 4th undefeated season any Big 12 team has had in its history.
That's a silly analogy...would never happen and if it would then of course he would win awards. That's not the point..the point is not to win an arguement here. It's who did the best coaching job this year in the Big 12, not who won the most, again.
I don't think its a silly analogy. There are a few on this thread that are basically saying that because Texas was predicted 1st, there is no way that Mack can win because he can't do better than 1st.
I can understand why people think Rhoads deserves it, I definitely would have been thrilled if he had won and I think he deserves it. What I don't get is the people that think Mack doesn't deserve it. He most certainly does and there are several coaches that could have won it this year as there is every year.
IMO winning every game is extremely difficult and as I said it has only happened 4 times in Big 12 history. We had a bigger turnaround in 2004 when we won 7 games and won the bowl (on an 11 game schedule). If we had won just one more game I might be right there with guys who feel like Rhoads should have won it.
IMO winning every game is extremely difficult and as I said it has only happened 4 times in Big 12 history. We had a bigger turnaround in 2004 when we won 7 games and won the bowl (on an 11 game schedule). If we had won just one more game I might be right there with guys who feel like Rhoads should have won it.
Though those questions need a little refinement, I can see where such questions could be equally beneficial to the Big programs as well as the small.
I don't think you can ignore #1, but improve in what area? Overall or just compared to the league? Texas is 12-0 and the next closest team is 9-3. Texas has improved more than the other teams in the league because all the other teams went backward. OSU basically has the same record as last year, OU and TTU both dropped a long way, A&M improved slightly and BU went backwards. In the North, NU has about the same record, however they are not as good as last year. MU, KU, and CU all dropped a ways, KSU made slight improvement and ISU made big improvement. The only two teams that can say yes in this catorigory is ISU and Texas.
Question 2 really needs to be followed up by "did his team win the games they should have?". With that Texas takes the cake. With the other, there really ins't a clear leader because there were upsets everywhere this season. In conference play, ISU only won one game that they were underdogs in.
Question 3 is highly subjective. If you use point spread to determine that, ISU doesn't qualify so that's out the window. I would say Texas would be the winner in this category. They are the only team that didn't just roll over and die at some point this season. OSU got destroyed by OU, OU got destroyed by Tech, Tech got destroyed by A&M, and Baylor got destroyed by everyone. In the North NU got ran over by TT, MU got destroyed by Baylor, ISU got picked apart by A&M and OSU, and KU and CU got ran over by everyone,
Question 4 kind of ties into question 1 and the only three teams that could answer yes is ISU, KSU and Texas. Everyone else is about where they were expected to end up or were allot weaker than expected.
With that the count is
KSU = 1
ISU = 2
Texas = 4 and Mack Brown is the winner
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S
st8
Guest
How the h**l is ARob not a 1st or 2nd team big XII running back? the guy missed 2 1/2 frigging games and still put up the 3rd most amount of yards in the conference. Please someone give me a reason other then ISU's lack of TV exposeure that he is not more deserving then those that made all conference teams?
RUSHING Team Cl G Att Yds Avg TD Long Yds/G
----------------------------------------------------------------
1. Thomas, Daniel..... KSU JR 12 247 1265 5.1 11 40 105.4
2. Toston,Keith........ OSU SR 12 217 1177 5.4 11 69 98.1
3. Robinson,Alexan.... ISU JR 11 210 1058 5.0 6 68 96.2
4. Helu Jr., Roy......... NU JR 12 207 1111 5.4 10 63 92.6
5. Stewart, Rodney... CU SO 11 198 804 4.1 9 36 73.1
6. Michael, Chr........ aTm FR 11 151 767 5.1 9 97 69.7
7. Washington, Der... MU JR 12 179 803 4.5 10 42 66.9
8. Batch, Baron....... TTU JR 12 146 784 5.4 12 44 65.3
9. Gray, Cyrus......... aTm SO 12 156 752 4.8 5 42 62.7
10.Murray, DeMarco.. OU JR 11 151 678 4.5 7 38 61.6
11.Brown, Chris........ OU SR 12 170 703 4.1 7 48 58.6
12.Opurum, Toben..... KU FR 11 133 554 4.2 9 26 50.4
RUSHING Team Cl G Att Yds Avg TD Long Yds/G
----------------------------------------------------------------
1. Thomas, Daniel..... KSU JR 12 247 1265 5.1 11 40 105.4
2. Toston,Keith........ OSU SR 12 217 1177 5.4 11 69 98.1
3. Robinson,Alexan.... ISU JR 11 210 1058 5.0 6 68 96.2
4. Helu Jr., Roy......... NU JR 12 207 1111 5.4 10 63 92.6
5. Stewart, Rodney... CU SO 11 198 804 4.1 9 36 73.1
6. Michael, Chr........ aTm FR 11 151 767 5.1 9 97 69.7
7. Washington, Der... MU JR 12 179 803 4.5 10 42 66.9
8. Batch, Baron....... TTU JR 12 146 784 5.4 12 44 65.3
9. Gray, Cyrus......... aTm SO 12 156 752 4.8 5 42 62.7
10.Murray, DeMarco.. OU JR 11 151 678 4.5 7 38 61.6
11.Brown, Chris........ OU SR 12 170 703 4.1 7 48 58.6
12.Opurum, Toben..... KU FR 11 133 554 4.2 9 26 50.4
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I would have loved Rhoads winning CoY as much as anyone else, but come on - there's been a lot of cardinal and gold-glasses wearing by quite a few in this group.
One argument for CPR over Brown has been that ISU exceeded expectations while Texas only met theirs, which is a preposterous argument because Texas meeting their expectations was a significantly greater accomplishment than ISU exceeding theirs. Meeting the expectation of going 12-0 and playing for the Big 12 title and having a shot at the BCS title is a significantly greater accomplishment than winning 6 games when the media expected you to win 3 or 4. In fact, I don't think the media thought it was outside the realm of possibility for ISU to win 6 games this year, just unlikely.
As far as the argument that Brown has better players than CPR, so what? If that were seriously a stipulation, under what circumstance would Brown or Stoops ever be eligible to win CoY? Not to mention the fact that Brown had to recruit them (yeah, I know, real hard when they're begging to go there), coach them up to play at that level, and put together a game plan together that will win games. If you think this comes naturally for Brown just because he coaches at Texas, then explain USC, OU, and ND this year. In the case of USC and OU, having access to superior talent didn't mean they were ready to replace their respective QBs on a moment's notice, so perhaps the talent argument is just a little BS.
Look, if ISU had won 8 or 9 games this year, being so upset about this might be more justifiable. But the fact remains he didn't get there, even with ample opportunities to do so. In fact, using hindsight instead of the foresight that people seem to want to use, it could very well be argued that ISU didn't live up to its potential considering the outcome of the K-State, KU, and MU games. In a retrospective view, if ISU potentially could have won 9 games, but only won 6, is CPR necessarily worthy of winning CoY when the winner did live up to expectations?
One final argument- Brown is likely in the running for national CoY, CPR likely isn't. Are you really going to argue that Brown is worthy of winning the national award but not the Big 12 award? That's just silly.
Bottom line- there's only one group of people out there that actually believes that CPR was snubbed by not winning CoY, and it's those fans that are so blindly devoted to Cyclone athletics that they've actually convinced themselves that going 6-6 is more impressive than having your team undefeated and in line to win a BCS title.
One argument for CPR over Brown has been that ISU exceeded expectations while Texas only met theirs, which is a preposterous argument because Texas meeting their expectations was a significantly greater accomplishment than ISU exceeding theirs. Meeting the expectation of going 12-0 and playing for the Big 12 title and having a shot at the BCS title is a significantly greater accomplishment than winning 6 games when the media expected you to win 3 or 4. In fact, I don't think the media thought it was outside the realm of possibility for ISU to win 6 games this year, just unlikely.
As far as the argument that Brown has better players than CPR, so what? If that were seriously a stipulation, under what circumstance would Brown or Stoops ever be eligible to win CoY? Not to mention the fact that Brown had to recruit them (yeah, I know, real hard when they're begging to go there), coach them up to play at that level, and put together a game plan together that will win games. If you think this comes naturally for Brown just because he coaches at Texas, then explain USC, OU, and ND this year. In the case of USC and OU, having access to superior talent didn't mean they were ready to replace their respective QBs on a moment's notice, so perhaps the talent argument is just a little BS.
Look, if ISU had won 8 or 9 games this year, being so upset about this might be more justifiable. But the fact remains he didn't get there, even with ample opportunities to do so. In fact, using hindsight instead of the foresight that people seem to want to use, it could very well be argued that ISU didn't live up to its potential considering the outcome of the K-State, KU, and MU games. In a retrospective view, if ISU potentially could have won 9 games, but only won 6, is CPR necessarily worthy of winning CoY when the winner did live up to expectations?
One final argument- Brown is likely in the running for national CoY, CPR likely isn't. Are you really going to argue that Brown is worthy of winning the national award but not the Big 12 award? That's just silly.
Bottom line- there's only one group of people out there that actually believes that CPR was snubbed by not winning CoY, and it's those fans that are so blindly devoted to Cyclone athletics that they've actually convinced themselves that going 6-6 is more impressive than having your team undefeated and in line to win a BCS title.
