Looks like the NSCA doesn't agree with doyle or the u of i.

[Mr Janny]

What is the NSCA going to do? doyle does not work for them, he is merely a paying member. They can't demand punishment, they can't dole out punishment. Having belonged to national organizations, it is not good that they come out and accuse a member of wrongdoing. National organizations simply do not do that. Most times the organization finds a way to back their member. They obviously did not like the u of i dragging their name into this mess and insinuating that they agree with his practices. BTW- Ken Miller asks some good questions in his blog. Questions the media and the BOR should be asking. Here is his blog Des Moines' Sports Station - 1460 KXNO

There is a difference between spinning and lying. u of i is flirting with that line. And while you might not expect more, I hope that an ISU coach is NEVER responsible for putting 13 kids in a hospital and if they are, I hope they are reprimanded.

I think Ken is onto something. Despite their denial, I think it's obvious that the Iowa coaching staff was using this workout as a punishment. As Miller outlined, the workout had only been used 4 times since Ferentz took over, and each time corresponded with poor performance by the team. (bad seasons, bad losses, run ins with the law) If this workout wasn't punitive, then why did it not occur after good seasons? And if it was punitive, then you can make a much better case that the staff was negligent.

 

[CYlent Bob]

The National Strength and Conditioning Association? Seriously? I guess there's an association for everything these days.

The National Association to Coordinate Student-Athlete Housing in Federally Subsidized Low Income Facilities?

NACSAHFSLIF

Doesn't really have a ring to it, does it?

 

[AmesHawk]

I think Ken is onto something. Despite their denial, I think it's obvious that the Iowa coaching staff was using this workout as a punishment. As Miller outlined, the workout had only been used 4 times since Ferentz took over, and each time corresponded with poor performance by the team. (bad seasons, bad losses, run ins with the law) If this workout wasn't punitive, then why did it not occur after good seasons? And if it was punitive, then you can make a much better case that the staff was negligent.

Not sure if you are aware, but in one of the years the workout (2004) followed a season where Iowa went 10-3 with a win over Florida in the Outback Bowl and final ranking of 8th. I guess I would consider that a pretty good year.

KF addressed this in the presser the week of the incident. He said that they liked to do the workout once with every group of guys, which means every 3-4 years.

 

[Mr Janny]

Not sure if you are aware, but in one of the years the workout (2004) followed a season where Iowa went 10-3 with a win over Florida in the Outback Bowl and final ranking of 8th. I guess I would consider that a pretty good year.

KF addressed this in the presser the week of the incident. He said that they liked to do the workout once with every group of guys, which means every 3-4 years.

yes, but as Miller pointed out, the workout occurred shortly after a player arrest, the last straw so to speak, at a time when the team was taking a lot of heat over the laundry list of off the field problems they had been experiencing.

So I will rephrase my question

"If this workout wasn't punitive, then why did it only occur after bad events?"

 

[tazclone]

What's interesting about brown urine. If your kidney's and liver aren't functioning normally, or you are severely dehydrated, your urine can turn the color of Coke.

I find it odd at how obessessed Cyclone fans are anytime something happens. They always seem to make more out of it than anyone else.

ISU is currently letting someone who assaulted a peace officer play Spring ball. That same player beat someone so silly before attending ISU he had to get his jaw wired shut. Where' the outrage from Cyclone fans? For the record, I couldn't care less if ISU decides to play him. They are intimately more aware of his circumstances than I am.

Some of you sound like those crazy birthers when it comes to anything Hawkeye.

There is a difference between dark yellow and brown. Considering that brown urine is a main symptom of rhabdo, it is very important. Considering that the workout could cause serious issues if a player was not healthy, brown urine would be a red flag. You should really read the full report, as it is interesting. Pay special attention to who is on the committee, what former players said, and how common/ uncommon rhabdo is in clusters.

Honestly, I haven't said anything the parents the players didn't say. I don't think the dc staff should be fired but they should have been suspended without pay for a certain time period. IMO- that is not a steep penalty for putting 13 players in the hospital.

I stand pretty consistent with my comments. I have expressed my distaste with the lattimer situation on this board. Hok fans r not consistent. They are the first to defend any Hok that gets in trouble and the first to condemn any cyclone player. BTW- This is an AP story meaning it is a national story. The USA Today had this story as well as Denver Post Tuscon, etc, etc. Why is it hok fans and the u of i continue to down play putting 13 players in the hospital as not that big of a deal?

 

[tazclone]

Not sure if you are aware, but in one of the years the workout (2004) followed a season where Iowa went 10-3 with a win over Florida in the Outback Bowl and final ranking of 8th. I guess I would consider that a pretty good year.

KF addressed this in the presser the week of the incident. He said that they liked to do the workout once with every group of guys, which means every 3-4 years.

You should read things before you attack them.miller addresses your concern

 

[AmesHawk]

yes, but as Miller pointed out, the workout occurred shortly after a player arrest, the last straw so to speak, at a time when the team was taking a lot of heat over the laundry list of off the field problems they had been experiencing.

So I will rephrase my question

"If this workout wasn't punitive, then why did it only occur after bad events?"

Then why not 2000, or 2005 when the team underperformed, or 2006 when the team had a losing record? To me it sort of seems like the "bad events" reasoning is rather vague and selective. What arrest was 2004? It must have been pretty bad considering the team did not do the exercise every time an arrest happened.

 

[Mr Janny]

Then why not 2000, or 2005 when the team underperformed, or 2006 when the team had a losing record? To me it sort of seems like the "bad events" reasoning is rather vague and selective. What arrest was 2004? It must have been pretty bad considering the team did not do the exercise every time an arrest happened.

from Miller's blog "Paul Wilson was charged with indecent exposure becoming the 20th player under Ferentz to be arrested, criticism was being aimed at the program"

So, just to be clear, your claim is that it is just coincidence that these workouts occurred after bad events? And, even if Kirk's statement about wanting to do the workout every 3-4 years is true, it doesn't mean that the workout wasn't punitive.

 

[AmesHawk]

from Miller's blog "Paul Wilson was charged with indecent exposure becoming the 20th player under Ferentz to be arrested, criticism was being aimed at the program"

So, just to be clear, your claim is that it is just coincidence that these workouts occurred after bad events? And, even if Kirk's statement about wanting to do the workout every 3-4 years is true, it doesn't mean that the workout wasn't punitive.

My point is that if there was punishment for every disappointing season or arrest that brought attention to the program (pretty much any one of them the last 6 or so years), then the team would be doing the workout every offseason.

 

[Cylax51]

Then why not 2000, or 2005 when the team underperformed, or 2006 when the team had a losing record? To me it sort of seems like the "bad events" reasoning is rather vague and selective. What arrest was 2004? It must have been pretty bad considering the team did not do the exercise every time an arrest happened.

With something like this you would have to be selective, you would kill off every class every year if they had to do the exercise everytime one of them was arrested.

On subject, It is nice to see an outside perspective on it. I dont have the time to cross check the U of I report with the NSCA report. However, was anyone truely surprised when an internal investigation came back anything other than what was presented.

Any internal investigation, U of I or anywhere, is going to come back slanted.

Just waiting for the sacrificial lamb on this one. After the last internal investigation was followed up externally, i seem to remeber two pretty high up employees being led to the aztec alter.

 

[tim_redd]

FWIW- the complete statement from the NSCA...

National Strength and Conditioning Association Speaks Out on Keeping Student Athletes... -- COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., March 29, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

One thing that is interesting is the u of i claims the basis of this workout stems from a paper published in 2008 in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research (which of course is wrong). Anyone see anything odd about that...like timing? Didn't they perform this workout in 1999, 2044, and 2007?

Anyone make any sweet future jokes yet?

 

[Mr Janny]

My point is that if there was punishment for every disappointing season or arrest that brought attention to the program (pretty much any one of them the last 6 or so years), then the team would be doing the workout every offseason.

and no one is saying that it was used as punishment for every bad event. Miller uses the term "program reset." Essentially, there were points when Kirk was looking to rein in the herd and this workout was effectively his "spurs."

 

[mikem]

It is just amazing to me that there are still these breds on here minimizing this incident. I know that at this point it should not be surprising due to what pos these "people" are, but it makes me sad.

Those who are minimizing this, should be ashamed. May God have mercy on your worthless souls.

 

[ajk4st8]

Doyle is an idiot. Anybody can sit there and tell people to work really hard and do crazy exercises. My grandma can sit there and keep telling people to keep doing squats or make up crazy exercises. The key is doing it with science and physiologic basis

Fact is Doyle failed. Maybe he should get back to creating injury proof running backs.. oh wait.

 

[agcy68]

So, the NFL suspends an 'Injury Coach' for standing in the wrong spot on the sidelines. Uofi puts 13 of their athletes in the hospital and nothing happens. Really?!?

 

[ozzie8]

You guys should start a picket line at the Hayden Fry Football Complex. Or you can just continue to **** and moan over here.

 

[tazclone]

Doyle is an idiot. Anybody can sit there and tell people to work really hard and do crazy exercises. My grandma can sit there and keep telling people to keep doing squats or make up crazy exercises. The key is doing it with science and physiologic basis

Fact is Doyle failed. Maybe he should get back to creating injury proof running backs.. oh wait.

doyle and staff really missed some simple things as the report pointed out. The rhabdo occurred in skill/semi skill players because fast twitch muscles fall out of shape quicker and degrade quicker. This is pretty important since they did the workout after a three week break. Something that most S and C coaches know and understand. This was really the biggest error...not allowing the players to reacclimate and really having no idea what their health/condition was upon return from break. Simple, simple stuff.

As to why I care as a Cyclone fan...well I remember a guy named marvin pomerantz who was appointed to the BOR the last time Brandstad was Governor. The guy tried to destroy ISU to the benefit of iowa. Sold WOI in order to destroy ISU's journalism department,, tried to combine engineering programs, wanted a university system set up similar to Wisconsin with u of i being the primary institution. I fully expected the u of i to find no fault and to cover the arse of doyle and staff. If you read the report, you can find fault and the NSCA statement backs up me opinion. What I don't expect is the BOR to allow the u of i to do this. The BOR should require an external investigation by experts. Not an internal investigation by professors from other areas of expertise. The BOR has now had two investigations that have found fault and both investigations tried to hide something. Because the BOR has allowed this, I am keeping a very close eye on what they are doing. Will they remain consistent among all universities? A couple years ago, the BOR made statements about the state's athletic departments needing to be financially viable and independent of general funds or programs would be cut. When ISU became finaincially independent, the BOR backed off that statement big time and continues to allow UNI to poerate at a loss. IMO- it was a shot across the bow of ISU. I do not want a repeat occurence of the pomerantz era.

Also, having lived out of state, I am aware of the complete ignorance of people outside of Iowa when it comes to understanding Iowa. Just look at the thread titled"Buckeye Adrian Clayborn." It clearly demonstrates what I am talkign about. Like it or not but iowa and Iowa State reflect on each other to a lot of the country.

 

[Madclone1]

You guys should start a picket line at the Hayden Fry Football Complex. Or you can just continue to **** and moan over here.

. . . as he posts on Cyclone Fanatic.

 

[Gitwitit]

doyle and staff really missed some simple things as the report pointed out. The rhabdo occurred in skill/semi skill players because fast twitch muscles fall out of shape quicker and degrade quicker. This is pretty important since they did the workout after a three week break. Something that most S and C coaches know and understand. This was really the biggest error...not allowing the players to reacclimate and really having no idea what their health/condition was upon return from break. Simple, simple stuff.

As to why I care as a Cyclone fan...well I remember a guy named marvin pomerantz who was appointed to the BOR the last time Brandstad was Governor. The guy tried to destroy ISU to the benefit of iowa. Sold WOI in order to destroy ISU's journalism department,, tried to combine engineering programs, wanted a university system set up similar to Wisconsin with u of i being the primary institution. I fully expected the u of i to find no fault and to cover the arse of doyle and staff. If you read the report, you can find fault and the NSCA statement backs up me opinion. What I don't expect is the BOR to allow the u of i to do this. The BOR should require an external investigation by experts. Not an internal investigation by professors from other areas of expertise. The BOR has now had two investigations that have found fault and both investigations tried to hide something. Because the BOR has allowed this, I am keeping a very close eye on what they are doing. Will they remain consistent among all universities? A couple years ago, the BOR made statements about the state's athletic departments needing to be financially viable and independent of general funds or programs would be cut. When ISU became finaincially independent, the BOR backed off that statement big time and continues to allow UNI to poerate at a loss. IMO- it was a shot across the bow of ISU. I do not want a repeat occurence of the pomerantz era.

Also, having lived out of state, I am aware of the complete ignorance of people outside of Iowa when it comes to understanding Iowa. Just look at the thread titled"Buckeye Adrian Clayborn." It clearly demonstrates what I am talkign about. Like it or not but iowa and Iowa State reflect on each other to a lot of the country.

Last I knew ISU's athletic dept was still relying on general university funds....

Iowa, ISU, UNI athletic budgets report | Eastern Iowa News Now

According to this article they did in 2010 and they budgeted in 2011 to receive general funds. Iowa is currently the only state university that has a self-sustaining athletic dept.

As to the Rhabdo situation....the University has admitted wrong-doing and said that they will not use this workout in the future. The NSCA stated that Iowa's strength and conditioning staff "mis-interpreted" this workout and how it was intended to be used. It's unfortunate that it happened, but the student athletes have recovered and are cleared to workout again. At most there was some negligence by the staff in "mis-interpreting" how the workout was to be used, but it will be very difficult to prove anything beyond that. Those stating that the workout was punishment are speculating at best.

Doyel has been recognized by the very same association as one of the best at what he does.

 

[agcy68]

Last I knew ISU's athletic dept was still relying on general university funds....

Iowa, ISU, UNI athletic budgets report | Eastern Iowa News Now

According to this article they did in 2010 and they budgeted in 2011 to receive general funds. Iowa is currently the only state university that has a self-sustaining athletic dept.

As to the Rhabdo situation....the University has admitted wrong-doing and said that they will not use this workout in the future. The NSCA stated that Iowa's strength and conditioning staff "mis-interpreted" this workout and how it was intended to be used. It's unfortunate that it happened, but the student athletes have recovered and are cleared to workout again. At most there was some negligence by the staff in "mis-interpreting" how the workout was to be used, but it will be very difficult to prove anything beyond that. Those stating that the workout was punishment are speculating at best.

Doyel has been recognized by the very same association as one of the best at what he does.

Negligence regarding the safety of people that they were responsible for? Where I work, negligence regarding safety can get you a pretty big fine from the government or fired.

What if Hy-Vee put 13 employees at risk and they ended up in the hospital. Don't you think there would be repurcussions there?? Lawsuits? Heads rolling? Here we just chalk it up to a "winning" program and let it slide.