Looks like the NSCA doesn't agree with doyle or the u of i.

[tazclone]

Well what would you expect player who are still on the roster to say? You don't start chucking grenades around a room unless you're going to be hauling a** out of there once you pull the pins.

Exactly.

 

[Gitwitit]

Yeah, not surprising. I will give the iowa staff one thing...they have the players believing they work harder and are more competitive than anyone else in the nation.

Seriously?? There is a reason that Iowa churns out NFL players every year that were barely recruited out of high school. There is a reason that NFL gm's and scouts requested Iowa hold a second pro day this year so that they can make sure to be in attendance. Iowa "is" one the the top programs in the country at developing talent. How do you develop talent? A lot of it has to do with not only out-working other athletes, it also has to do with working out smarter than other athletes. Rhabdo happened and it was a mistake by the staff....they should have taken a couple more days to reacclimate the athletes to working out at that level. That has been recognized and admitted by those involved.

People a lot smarter than you and I were involved in this investigation...doctors from several areas of expertise. They are not going to report something that would jeopardize another student athlete...they are going to make sure that whatever they conclude is in the best interest of student athletes. If they don't do that, they risk jeopardizing their own professional careers and that's just not going to happen. If you don't believe these doctors are doing that, then you are questioning their ethical fortitude.

The truth of the whole matter is that Rhabdo is not something that is not all that common and it's not easy to recognize or diagnose. I believe it happens more than people realize (not in clusters like this) but it's still not something you see often.

The players appear ready to put this behind them and their families are as well for the most part...I think it's time the every day joe does as well. Nobody was seriously hurt...lesson learned.

 

[Gitwitit]

1. Exactly. It was a different workout. That is what I have been saying all along but hok fans have told me time and time again that they workout was the same. Even the great Gitwitit said it was the same. The committee even uses this logic. They find no blame because the workout was used in the past so the staff should not have expected different results. That logic simply isn't right. The excuse of "they shouldn't have expected different results" doesn't make sense. Either, they changed the workout and they were expecting/should expect different results OR they did the same workout and should not have expected different results. You can't have it both ways. If the workout worked in the past and was successful then why change the workout? The basis of the workout is the 100 squats 10 sets of 10 always has been or that is what we have heard since the rhabdo thing happened. That is the foundation and building block of the workout and has been since 2004 (or 1999) The basis of the workout was to breakdown muscle in order to increase testerone for increased muscle production. We have seen that regurgitated time and time again. That has been the same since 2004. The reports said...the coaches claimed they felt they could increase the repetitions if they decreased % body weight lifted....Wait? They increased the repetitions. Hasn't this always been know as the 100 squat workout?
   Huh? Wasn't it still 100 reps? This is why if I was the BOR I would be asking questions...Something does not add up. There is some circular logic going on here.
   
2. 14 former players responded. 7 said they felt the 2011 workout seemed more difficult, 3 thought it seemed the same, and 4 thought the 2007 was more difficult. So I wasn't trying to mislead, I didn't leave out facts. I stated MOST of the former players and last I checked 7>4>3. You, on the other hand, combined two of the answers to make your point sound better. What you did is a statistic no no. Out of the three possible answers the answer that receieved the MOST responses was...the workout seemed harder. You must also take into the account the bravado that exists in football, the committee did. Disclaimer...this is opinion... It wouldn't be too far fetched that some respondents thought there was no way in hell that workout could be harder than what they went through and in turn responded"the same" or "2007 was tougher."
   
3. There is a discrepancy that the committee chose to dismiss. Who has something to gain by lieing? The players or the coaches? I see you chose not to refute this again but you did the first time Guessing you read the report after I challenged you to do so.
   
4. Actually many hok fans on here have said that it was the same workout. You did in your first response. You said in post #42 "Really?? Everything I have read from former players says that they have also done this workout and that it was the toughest thing they had ever done. Nowhere have I read that a player stated this workout was different than what had been done in the past." Your words not mine. Many times, I have stated that it must have been adjusted or different and that is why the kids ended up in the hospital. Every time, I have had hok fans tell me no...it is the same. Look at your response...you trumpet Pat Angerer's response like it is proof that the workout not only works but is safe. If it is not the same workout, then Pat Angerers response has no merit. He has not done the same workout so he wouldn't know what the workout was like. If it is the same workout then how could the basis be found in the 2008 research. If it simialr but changed why change it if it was successful for Angerer?

BTW- I am just pointing out things that I think don't add up. Things that the BOR should be questioning further. Along with these things, Mason stated that rhabdo was common but most likely under reported. Yet, the reports quotes doctors as having never seen a case in 30 years and states there are numerous cases of rhabdo but the cluster like u of i is rare. I am not making accusation. I am saying there are very obvious things in that report that make it an incomplete report and there are questions that need to be answered. I am not making any accusations.

In the end, the u of i staff made some very basic mistakes but have been relieved of any blame. I don't think anyone should be fired. I tend to agree with the parents. Their should have been some discipline...suspension, dock in pay, probation, etc. As of right now. The staff has had no punishment for putting 13 players in the hospital. And no matter how you spin it, the players were hospitalized because of the incompetence of the staff. They didn't know about rhabdo(incompetence) they didn't allow the player to reacclimate (incompetence). They didn't factor in for fast twitch muscles degrading faster in skill/semi skilled players (incompetence).

This is a similar workout...not exactly the same..Id've said that repeatedly.

Yeah, you don't leave out facts, but you don't tell the whole truth. You sound like a politician. Anyone can twist facts in their favor. 14 players were questioned and 7 said they thought this workout was more difficult...4 thought it was the same and 3 thought it was easier...you didn't mention numbers at all...you just said players said it was harder....well, players said it was easier too.

 

[Mr Janny]

Seriously?? There is a reason that Iowa churns out NFL players every year that were barely recruited out of high school. There is a reason that NFL gm's and scouts requested Iowa hold a second pro day this year so that they can make sure to be in attendance. Iowa "is" one the the top programs in the country at developing talent. How do you develop talent? A lot of it has to do with not only out-working other athletes, it also has to do with working out smarter than other athletes. Rhabdo happened and it was a mistake by the staff....they should have taken a couple more days to reacclimate the athletes to working out at that level. That has been recognized and admitted by those involved.

People with a lot more to lose than you and I were involved in this investigation...folks who have a vested interest in minimizing the story. They are not going to report something that would jeopardize the football program...they are going to make sure that whatever they conclude is in the best interest of U of I athletics. If they don't do that, they risk jeopardizing their own professional careers and that's just not going to happen. If you don't believe these "investigators" are doing that, then you are naive.

The truth of the whole matter is that Rhabdo is not something that is not all that common and it's not easy to recognize or diagnose. I believe it happens more than people realize (not in clusters like this) but it's still not something you see often.

The players appear ready to put this behind them and their families are as well for the most part...I think it's time the every day joe does as well. Nobody was seriously hurt...lesson learned.

Fixed that one paragraph for you.

 

[Gitwitit]

Fixed that one paragraph for you.

You watch too much CSI. So now the Iowa football program has the BOR, the Johnson county attorney, and UIHC doctors and administrators in their pocket.

Conspiracies run thick on CycloneFanatic.

 

[Mr Janny]

You watch too much CSI. So now the Iowa football program has the BOR, the Johnson county attorney, and UIHC doctors and administrators in their pocket.

Conspiracies run thick on CycloneFanatic.

You don't have to watch CSI to see that there is a huge conflict of interest with Iowa "self investigating" the incident, especially considering their history of withholding information. See: Everson/Satterfield and the second investigation ordered by the BOR. To think that Iowa officials are not capable of attempting to sweep things under the rug is to ignore very recent history.

 

[ozzie8]

No need to submit your resume to the FBI. If they ever have a position to fill, they look no further than cyclonefanatic.

 

[Gitwitit]

You don't have to watch CSI to see that there is a huge conflict of interest with Iowa "self investigating" the incident, especially considering their history of withholding information. See: Everson/Satterfield and the second investigation ordered by the BOR. To think that Iowa officials are not capable of attempting to sweep things under the rug is to ignore very recent history.

Just because they are capable doesn't mean it's happening here. What are they trying hide? They said there was an error in judgement and that this workout or any similar workout should not be used again in the future. If you think there is criminial intent, you are crazy! I'm sure the S&C staff was purposely trying to harm athletes. I'm sure the doctors investigating, who have dozens of years of experience, are jeopardizing all of that in order to appease the Iowa Athletic Dept.

The truth is, if this didn't happen at Iowa you and your brethren probably wouldn't even have read the article. Because it is Iowa, conspiracies are certainly in play.

 

[Frak]

Just because they are capable doesn't mean it's happening here. What are they trying hide? They said there was an error in judgement and that this workout or any similar workout should not be used again in the future. If you think there is criminial intent, you are crazy! I'm sure the S&C staff was purposely trying to harm athletes. I'm sure the doctors investigating, who have dozens of years of experience, are jeopardizing all of that in order to appease the Iowa Athletic Dept.

The truth is, if this didn't happen at Iowa you and your brethren probably wouldn't even have read the article. Because it is Iowa, conspiracies are certainly in play.

I see your point, but you have to admit that it looks a little shady. I mean, all this goes down and UI basically investigates itself. Then after a month or so, comes out and says "Well, turns out we didn't do anything wrong!". Big time conflict of interest, whether it was intended or designed that way or not. I'm not even SAYING that there was a cover-up or anything, but it does LOOK bad...something the UI obviously has either no feel for or no concerns about.

 

[agcy68]

Just because they are capable doesn't mean it's happening here. What are they trying hide? They said there was an error in judgement and that this workout or any similar workout should not be used again in the future. If you think there is criminial intent, you are crazy! I'm sure the S&C staff was purposely trying to harm athletes. I'm sure the doctors investigating, who have dozens of years of experience, are jeopardizing all of that in order to appease the Iowa Athletic Dept.

The truth is, if this didn't happen at Iowa you and your brethren probably wouldn't even have read the article. Because it is Iowa, conspiracies are certainly in play.

Just because it is uofi doesn't mean that it isn't happening there.

Correct me if I have it wrong:
- No uofi athlese experienced more than one of these workouts.
- The uofi S&C staff conducted workouts that resulted in 13 athletes in the hospital
- uofi staff investigated and suggested minor changes to the workout scheme
- The NSCA said the workout what outside the documented norm for this type of workout.

Are those the cold hard facts or not?

 

[breck53]

Just because it is uofi doesn't mean that it isn't happening there.

Correct me if I have it wrong:
- No uofi athlese experienced more than one of these workouts.
- The uofi S&C staff conducted workouts that resulted in 13 athletes in the hospital
- uofi staff investigated and suggested minor changes to the workout scheme
- The NSCA said the workout what outside the documented norm for this type of workout.

Are those the cold hard facts or not?

Are you kidding me? Get over yourselves-nobody except a handful of Cyclone Fanatic conspiracy theorists cares about this-to think Hawkeye coaches knowingly and deliberately hurt their own players? Plus everybody related to the university covers everything up? Get a life people!:skeptical:

 

[Gitwitit]

Just because it is uofi doesn't mean that it isn't happening there.

Correct me if I have it wrong:
- No uofi athlese experienced more than one of these workouts.
- The uofi S&C staff conducted workouts that resulted in 13 athletes in the hospital
- uofi staff investigated and suggested minor changes to the workout scheme-They suggested that this workout and similar workouts not be used in the future. The university already acknowledged that they will not be doing this type of workout anymore. They said nothing about "minor" changes.
- The NSCA said the workout what outside the documented norm for this type of workout. "It is NOT part of the inherent risk associated with athletic competition, and is a sign that the training program was inappropriate for those athletes at that time of the year."-That's a direct quote from the NSCA. The players should have been reacclimated to intense workouts before doing this.

Are those the cold hard facts or not?

So no, you did not give cold hard facts. Not sure the point you are trying to make.

 

[tazclone]

Seriously?? There is a reason that Iowa churns out NFL players every year that were barely recruited out of high school. There is a reason that NFL gm's and scouts requested Iowa hold a second pro day this year so that they can make sure to be in attendance. Iowa "is" one the the top programs in the country at developing talent. How do you develop talent? A lot of it has to do with not only out-working other athletes, it also has to do with working out smarter than other athletes. Rhabdo happened and it was a mistake by the staff....they should have taken a couple more days to reacclimate the athletes to working out at that level. That has been recognized and admitted by those involved.

People a lot smarter than you and I were involved in this investigation...doctors from several areas of expertise. They are not going to report something that would jeopardize another student athlete...they are going to make sure that whatever they conclude is in the best interest of student athletes. If they don't do that, they risk jeopardizing their own professional careers and that's just not going to happen. If you don't believe these doctors are doing that, then you are questioning their ethical fortitude.

The truth of the whole matter is that Rhabdo is not something that is not all that common and it's not easy to recognize or diagnose. I believe it happens more than people realize (not in clusters like this) but it's still not something you see often.

The players appear ready to put this behind them and their families are as well for the most part...I think it's time the every day joe does as well. Nobody was seriously hurt...lesson learned.

iowa originally developed players that were lower rated but now most that make it to the NFL are higher rated or have more offers. Three star players have NFL potential. That is the definition of three star players. The iowa staff has done a good job seeing potential, that is for sure.
Some family members thought there should be a suspension and were extremely dissappointed in the communication so to say family members are ready to move on is misleading. Some were waiting to see what the report brought out and what would happen after the report. The reality is, the BOR has a report delivered to them a couple weeks ago. It is their job to look through the report, and to see if it was responsibly done and if there is any inconsistencies. This should not be let go if there are questions remaining. I am merely pointing out that there are areas that the BOR, and any subjective person, should want addressed.
And let's get one thing straight...the majority of the committee were "professors" that were not specialists in the area. One in dentisrty, another in law, and another the VP of compliance. There is no reason this should have been handled internally when the u of i already bungled one internal investigation and were not honest with the BOR. So looking at past internal investigations and the fact that the u of i was not truthful, yes, the BOR should question the ethical fortitude. Especially when there are discrepancies between athletes and coaches.

And FYI, it should have been more than a couple of days to acclimate. Try a week minimum.

 

[tazclone]

Are you kidding me? Get over yourselves-nobody except a handful of Cyclone Fanatic conspiracy theorists cares about this-to think Hawkeye coaches knowingly and deliberately hurt their own players? Plus everybody related to the university covers everything up? Get a life people!:skeptical:

Actually, the NSCA cares abotu it. they are not Cyclone fans, they are the National organization for Strength and Conditioning. The USA Today, Denver Post, Tuscon, etc all published the NSCA story. So there is more interest than just a handfull of Cyclone fans.
It is good to see that after a dozen years, the hok faithful still buy the company line.
I am not stating any conspiracy. I am meerly pointing out very obvious discrepancies inthe report. Maybe the committee did a poor job writing the report but there are obvious discrepancies

 

[tazclone]

This is a similar workout...not exactly the same..Id've said that repeatedly.

Yeah, you don't leave out facts, but you don't tell the whole truth. You sound like a politician. Anyone can twist facts in their favor. 14 players were questioned and 7 said they thought this workout was more difficult...4 thought it was the same and 3 thought it was easier...you didn't mention numbers at all...you just said players said it was harder....well, players said it was easier too.

No I said MOST of the former players said it was harder.

Correct me if I am wrong but 7 is greater than 4. 7 is greater that 3. You combined data to prove a point...that is a statistical no, no. I did not combine data, I did not try to combine data. I stated that most said it was harder. The respondents that said it was harder is the largest group. I did not include numbers because I didn't want to type it out. I guess I should have done it the first time because now Ihave had to do it three times.

You were the one misrepresenting facts by combining data. You are the politician.

BTW-you have said both. You have said it was the same and palyers have said so. You have also said it was similar. I provided direct quotes from you to demonstrate exactly that. You cannot refute that as they were your words. You are in fact as inconsistent as the report.

 

[tazclone]

You don't have to watch CSI to see that there is a huge conflict of interest with Iowa "self investigating" the incident, especially considering their history of withholding information. See: Everson/Satterfield and the second investigation ordered by the BOR. To think that Iowa officials are not capable of attempting to sweep things under the rug is to ignore very recent history.

This is exactly my point. I am not saying anything was swept under the rug. I am not saying the u of i is hiding anything. What I am saying is the u of i has lied to the BOR before. To the point that a second investigation was ordered. There are some inconsistencies in this report as well. Based on recent history, the BOR should be a little suspicious and should atleast request clarification.

And, like I said, Cyclone fans should remain interested and care do the political nature and history of the BOR and Brandstad. cyclone fans should be closely monitoring any Brandstad BOR appointee and their actions. ISU has been screwed before under Brandstad. Couple this along with the search for a new President and Cyclone fans should be watching the BOR very, very closely.

 

[Gitwitit]

No I said MOST of the former players said it was harder.

Correct me if I am wrong but 7 is greater than 4. 7 is greater that 3. You combined data to prove a point...that is a statistical no, no. I did not combine data, I did not try to combine data. I stated that most said it was harder. The respondents that said it was harder is the largest group. I did not include numbers because I didn't want to type it out. I guess I should have done it the first time because now Ihave had to do it three times.

You were the one misrepresenting facts by combining data. You are the politician.

BTW-you have said both. You have said it was the same and palyers have said so. You have also said it was similar. I provided direct quotes from you to demonstrate exactly that. You cannot refute that as they were your words. You are in fact as inconsistent as the report.

I did the exact same thing you did only in reverse. You said that MOST of the former players said it was harder. Actually, 50% of those surveyed said it was harder. 50% said it was equally hard or not as hard. 50/50 bud. MOST did not say it was harder.

 

[Gitwitit]

This is exactly my point. I am not saying anything was swept under the rug. I am not saying the u of i is hiding anything. What I am saying is the u of i has lied to the BOR before. To the point that a second investigation was ordered. There are some inconsistencies in this report as well. Based on recent history, the BOR should be a little suspicious and should atleast request clarification.

And, like I said, Cyclone fans should remain interested and care do the political nature and history of the BOR and Brandstad. cyclone fans should be closely monitoring any Brandstad BOR appointee and their actions. ISU has been screwed before under Brandstad. Couple this along with the search for a new President and Cyclone fans should be watching the BOR very, very closely.

I agree that Cyclone fans should monitor the BOR just as UNI fans and Iowa fans should as well.

They didn't openly lie to the BOR...they did not submit all of the information in the Everson/Satterfield case because they were advised by attorney's not to do so because of student confidientiality rights. They found out later that additional information should have gone to the BOR the first time info was requested, but you can't prove that they purposely lied to them.

 

[Gitwitit]

No I said MOST of the former players said it was harder.

Correct me if I am wrong but 7 is greater than 4. 7 is greater that 3. You combined data to prove a point...that is a statistical no, no. I did not combine data, I did not try to combine data. I stated that most said it was harder. The respondents that said it was harder is the largest group. I did not include numbers because I didn't want to type it out. I guess I should have done it the first time because now Ihave had to do it three times.

You were the one misrepresenting facts by combining data. You are the politician.

BTW-you have said both. You have said it was the same and palyers have said so. You have also said it was similar. I provided direct quotes from you to demonstrate exactly that. You cannot refute that as they were your words. You are in fact as inconsistent as the report.

I have said 5 times that it was similar. Quit nitpicking because you are being proven wrong.

 

[mikem]

Well what would you expect player who are still on the roster to say? You don't start chucking grenades around a room unless you're going to be hauling a** out of there once you pull the pins.

tm, There are moments that I really am proud of you, and think that there is hope for you yet.

It is inconceiveable to me that people wouldn't realize that since they are still on the team, they know enough to fall in line. It would be the same at Iowa State, Minnesota, Oklahoma, everywhere.

Of course if nothing else has ever been proven, we have established that the hawk fans on here are none too bright...And definitely not able to be honest nor candid.