Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can say...

[Bewilderme]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I will never understand the argument that a blown call with 5:00 left in the game is the same as a blown call with 30 seconds left. If you make this argument, you have no understanding of the impact of momentum and emotion on sports. Games are not just mechanical events where you take the average of what has happened over the entire game. Watch an NBA game sometime; every player knows that the last 2:00 are the most important. When you have an opportunity to make the last play of the game, you have a HUGE advantage.

 

[Cydkar]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I will never understand the argument that a blown call with 5:00 left in the game is the same as a blown call with 30 seconds left. If you make this argument, you have no understanding of the impact of momentum and emotion on sports. Games are not just mechanical events where you take the average of what has happened over the entire game. Watch an NBA game sometime; every player knows that the last 2:00 are the most important. When you have an opportunity to make the last play of the game, you have a HUGE advantage.

Nobody truly thinks this. It's just a way to try and sway an argument when you are on the positive side of a bad call.

 

[Cydkar]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I just don't agree with you that these errors all even out. It seems like wishful thinking in order to cope. Just disagree I guess.

No doubt. Errors probably even out over the course of a season or multiple seasons but certainly not over one game.

 

[TedKumsher]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

When did ISU win a game in the fashion KU won at Hilton last year with two blown calls within seconds at the end of a game winning it for us? (on the road no less) When did ISU get a blown call as horrific as scoring a three during a dead ball? If you don't think KU gets better calls than the rest of the league you're living in some serious and major denial. Life would probably be easier thinking that way but you can't just ignore that it happens.

Mizzouri game from McCarney era (I think) comes to mind. Last play or almost last play of the game -- Mizzou gets some weird offensive holding call and doesn't win. I believe the Big 12 apologized to them for it.

 

[TedKumsher]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

A blown call has never decided a game unless the game was one play. A blown call is a blown call no matter what time it occurs. Just because it occured with 2:30 left versus 0:01.4 doesn't make one blown call worse than another. Whether the "foul" on Niang was whistled with 4 seconds or 15 minutes it was a terrible call. There were about 100 plays before that which influenced the game just as much as that crappy call. Hit one more three? It doesn't matter. Miss another three? It still doesn't matter. That single call didn't decide the outcome of the game.

Think for a minute. No chance. At 2:30 you still have 2:30 to adjust your gameplan and try to overcome it. At 0:01.4, you're basically down to "the game is 1 play".

 

[TedKumsher]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

The quality of officiating in the NCAA and NBA has really sunk.

I agree with Johnny Orr who wanted to make refereeing a profession pay them well, don't let a guy do a game in Ames Monday, and Tucson on Tuesday.

I also agree with Johnny when he wanted to have the refs have to do press conferences after games. Make that guy that called the foul on Georges at the end of the KU game explain what it was that he saw.

Hold them to a higher standard of accountability, but pay them well for it.

I tend to disagree. I think the quality of HD video review for armchair referees has just exponentially decreased the uncertainty. Think about this -- if you watch a live football game from the 60th row, and you think you saw a blown call -- you don't know. You just don't know from that far away with no review and no closeup and no other angles to view. You're uncertain. But you go home and watch the play over and over from near infinite angles . . .

 

[VeloClone]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

Mizzouri game from McCarney era (I think) comes to mind. Last play or almost last play of the game -- Mizzou gets some weird offensive holding call and doesn't win. I believe the Big 12 apologized to them for it.

There was nothing weird about that holding call. The weird thing was the conference apologizing for it. There are photos out there that show a full on, arms extended, handful of jersey hold. It was the correct call that should have been made.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

Facts just don't support your argument. Lets take a logical look at their losses the last few years in the tournament. This year they lost to a very hot Michigan team that went to the NC game. Last year they lost to the NC Kentucky team in the NC. Two years ago they lost to VCU in the Elite Eight. Three years ago they lost to UNI by 2 points in what is by far their worst upset. Four years ago they lost to a favored MSU team that they took to the wire and MSU went on to the NC game. Five years ago they won a NC in the only Final Four in the history of the tournament to have all #1 seeds. Six years ago they lost to UCLA in an Elite Eight game in CA.

In the last 7 years the only school KU has lost to in the tourney that didn't end up making the Final Four was UNI and during that same span other than KU not a single team in the Big 12 made it to the Final Four. So you could make a pretty good case that most of KU's losses in the tournament are against better teams than they play in the conference. At least teams that are playing better at that moment than teams in the Big 12.

You are missing the point. Kansas has talented teams no doubt about it. But when they don't get the calls they do have a tougher time and that usually happens in the NCAA Tournament.

Upset by VCU in 2011, upset by UNI in 2010, upset by Bradley in 2006, upset by Bucknell in 2005, upset by Rhode Island in 1998, barely survived Murray State in 1988, barely survived Robert Morris in 1990, barely survived New Orleans in 1991, barely survived DePaul in 2000, struggled against Holy Cross in 2002, barely survived Utah State in 2003, struggled against North Dakota State in 2009, struggled against Detroit in 2012, barely survived Purdue in 2012, barely survived NC State in 2012, and barely survived Western Kentucky in 2013.

 

[VeloClone]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

Upset by VCU in 2011, upset by UNI in 2010, upset by Bradley in 2006, upset by Bucknell in 2005, upset by Rhode Island in 1998, barely survived Murray State in 1988, barely survived Robert Morris in 1990, barely survived New Orleans in 1991, barely survived DePaul in 2000, struggled against Holy Cross in 2002, barely survived Utah State in 2003, struggled against North Dakota State in 2009, struggled against Detroit in 2012, barely survived Purdue in 2012, barely survived NC State in 2012, and barely survived Western Kentucky in 2013.

Oh sure, take the outliers.





:spinny::v_SPIN::spinny::v_SPIN:

 

[jsb]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

A few thoughts on this:

1. It upsets me when Iowa State fans act holier than thou and demand that any talk about unfair officiating is not right, etc. Other fan bases don't do this and I am not sure why some Iowa State fans act like they are above it. You are a fan. Act like it. Sometimes it is OK to be biased and a fan. My god.

2. Of course there are bad calls all of the time and Iowa State benefits from their fair share. I suspect that it probably evens out over a season.

3. What some people fail to realize is that what happened in the last minute of the Kansas game goes beyond just bad and unfair. THE ACTIONS IN THE LAST SEVERAL MINUTES REQUIRED THAT THE CONFERENCE ISSUE A STATEMENT SAYING MISTAKES WERE MADE. This happens VERY few times in a season (find me another time it happened in 2012-2013 in any conference). The mistake was so bad that BEFORE THE PRESS CONFERENCES WERE HELD after the game, the Big 12 said they would look into it. The national sports news the next day was filled with talk about the game. This wasn't your normal screw job that you expect fans like me to complain about. This was incompetence that EVERYONE noticed.

4. As long as I talk about basketball, I will talk about that Kansas game and talk about how we were screwed. There is no getting over it. It's one of those things will live in Iowa State legend. I don't need Iowa State fans saying we need to get over it. There's no need. I am perfectly capable of thinking of more than one thing at once. I think our coach isn't over it either.

5. Kansas fans and Bill Self are idiots. I dislike them all. They are arrogant. I feel strongly that Bill Self feels threatened by Hoiberg. I bet if he were to tell you the truth, he probably feels that Hoiberg has the best chance to unseat Kansas, even if it isn't a huge chance.

6. Because of the terrible debacle that was the Kansas game, I tend to think that the Ohio STate game wasn't that bad. IT WAS.

7. I would expect Kansas fans to act like idiots about the game. Iowa State fans are allowed to complain about that game.

 

[jsb]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I tend to disagree. I think the quality of HD video review for armchair referees has just exponentially decreased the uncertainty. Think about this -- if you watch a live football game from the 60th row, and you think you saw a blown call -- you don't know. You just don't know from that far away with no review and no closeup and no other angles to view. You're uncertain. But you go home and watch the play over and over from near infinite angles . . .

I was a fan sitting in row 3 of the balcony. It was obvious the call should have been a charge. What was not obvious in the aftermath was that they didn't call the block, but instead called the foul on the ground. Part of me wishes I had never learned that.

 

[trajanJ]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

You are missing the point. Kansas has talented teams no doubt about it. But when they don't get the calls they do have a tougher time and that usually happens in the NCAA Tournament.

Upset by VCU in 2011, upset by UNI in 2010, upset by Bradley in 2006, upset by Bucknell in 2005, upset by Rhode Island in 1998, barely survived Murray State in 1988, barely survived Robert Morris in 1990, barely survived New Orleans in 1991, barely survived DePaul in 2000, struggled against Holy Cross in 2002, barely survived Utah State in 2003, struggled against North Dakota State in 2009, struggled against Detroit in 2012, barely survived Purdue in 2012, barely survived NC State in 2012, and barely survived Western Kentucky in 2013.

For one thing you can't even include "barely survived." A win is a win. Sure KU has been upset in the tournament. Show me any top program that has a high seed most years that haven't. Every high seed gets upset sometime, that's the nature of the tournament and what makes the tournament great. How many times has all 4 #1 seeds made it to the Final Four? What is the highest seed ISU has ever had in the history of their program. #2. What did they do that year? They lost 1st round. Did ISU get the calls during the conference play and that's why they lost so early in the tourney? Or did they just have a bad game and the other team played out of their mind? How did KU lose to TCU this year? TCU is in the Big 12 and possibly one of the worst teams in the history of the conference. Much worse than any team KU has lost to in 50 years of playing in the NCAA tourney. Did you actually even watch KU this year in the first round game? They got the calls and still almost lost. Had absolutely nothing to do with the officiating. I'll admit KU gets their share of calls but that doesn't just disappear in the tourney. They get calls there also. When they get upset it has zero to do with officiating and a lot more to do with not playing as good as their opponent.

 

[weR138]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

For one thing you can't even include "barely survived." A win is a win. Sure KU has been upset in the tournament. Show me any top program that has a high seed most years that haven't. Every high seed gets upset sometime, that's the nature of the tournament and what makes the tournament great. How many times has all 4 #1 seeds made it to the Final Four? What is the highest seed ISU has ever had in the history of their program. #2. What did they do that year? They lost 1st round. Did ISU get the calls during the conference play and that's why they lost so early in the tourney? Or did they just have a bad game and the other team played out of their mind? How did KU lose to TCU this year? TCU is in the Big 12 and possibly one of the worst teams in the history of the conference. Much worse than any team KU has lost to in 50 years of playing in the NCAA tourney. Did you actually even watch KU this year in the first round game? They got the calls and still almost lost. Had absolutely nothing to do with the officiating. I'll admit KU gets their share of calls but that doesn't just disappear in the tourney. They get calls there also. When they get upset it has zero to do with officiating and a lot more to do with not playing as good as their opponent.

TLR

KU sucks.

 

[Rural]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

There was 1 bad call in the last four seconds of the KU/ISU game. No call intially on the drive was perfectly acceptable...the foul on Niang was an atrocious call.

Wha?, yeah that's right, perfectly acceptable except for the whole dead-to-rights charge thing.

 

[Pitt_Clone]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

Mizzouri game from McCarney era (I think) comes to mind. Last play or almost last play of the game -- Mizzou gets some weird offensive holding call and doesn't win. I believe the Big 12 apologized to them for it.

Yeah what a weird call.

And that apology was utter ********. There is absolutely no way the Big 12 issues an apology if we're Texas or Oklahoma. And Pinkel's whiny little "we're considering that game a win" *****-fest afterwards made me hate him ever since.

 

[HFCS]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

sorry contrarians and those in denial, but I'm still seeing nothing within a million miles of a dead ball 3 counting. A buzzer beater being off by a half second is definitely a break, but not as big a break as two horrible foul calls in the last four seconds of a game changing the outcome. A buzzer beater being a fraction of a second off is not even in the same galaxy as a dead ball 3 counting. Then the big "break" we got turns out to just be a dbag coach with no case.