Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can say...

[IcSyU]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I will say though that the better team normally does get the benefit of the doubt. Ben McLemore was more likely to get away with a hand check on Bubu than the other way around for example because the expectation is that Bubu isn't as quick as McLemore and if he gets a half step behind he can't catch up without cheating. Now McLemore does the same thing on the other end and there's no whistle because McLemore is a superior player and probably did get back in front without fouling. This is where you can pick out refs who anticipate versus those who call what they see.

The above is really, REALLY apparently watching post play.

 

[rholtgraves]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

It was a bad call. End of story. Lets move on.

 

[trajanJ]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

As a KU fan I'll admit KU gets calls. It's sports and it's refereed by humans. KU gets some calls in basketball and the opposite happens in football. We've beaten Texas 2 out of the last 3 times we've played them in football at home but the scoreboard will never show it because Texas got a huge benefit of a bad call at the end of the games. I don't think the fix is in, but I do think the refs are humans and the calls tend to go to the name teams. Ever watch a Duke game? At the end of the KU/ISU game in Hilton you guys got screwed. The no-call wasn't terrible because it's typical but the foul on a player laying on his back going after the ball while a player is on top of him was terrible.

 

[HFCS]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

So Iowa State never gets bad calls made against other teams? You remember the ones against Kansas the best because it's the biggest game of the year and normally the game we have a razor thin margin for error.

And Iowa State has had a fair share of calls against KU. Withey got whistled incorrectly at least twice for fouls in this year's game.

Every single game calls are missed. To suggest the conference is telling officials "Make sure Kansas wins!" is ridiculous.

Of course we get bad calls in our favor. We don't get KU level calls in our favor. It's really obvious to almost everyone. We don't get dead ball 3s. We don't have our fifth foul on a star player called on a player 10 feet away. We're not a marquee team like that. I can't believe this is even controversial for some of you, it's just reality.

You're inventing stuff saying that I'm sure there's some huge conspiracy. KU gets better calls than the rest of the league, it happens...somehow. It just does. In the case of the NBA, Pac 12 and European soccer there really have been rigged/fixed games. Maybe there has been in the Big 12, probably not. Either way it's absurd to suggest we get the same breaks from the refs in Big 12 play that KU gets.

 

[HFCS]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

As a KU fan I'll admit KU gets calls. It's sports and it's refereed by humans. KU gets some calls in basketball and the opposite happens in football. We've beaten Texas 2 out of the last 3 times we've played them in football at home but the scoreboard will never show it because Texas got a huge benefit of a bad call at the end of the games. I don't think the fix is in, but I do think the refs are humans and the calls tend to go to the name teams. Ever watch a Duke game? At the end of the KU/ISU game in Hilton you guys got screwed. The no-call wasn't terrible because it's typical but the foul on a player laying on his back going after the ball with a player is on top of him was terrible.

This is all I'm saying but there's this "tough guy" syndrome where blown calls NEVER decide a game and suggesting they do is somehow not allowed or even worse that it somehow cosmically balances out to be exactly 50/50 in all cases. It's not based in reality.

 

[IcSyU]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

This is all I'm saying but there's this "tough guy" syndrome where blown calls NEVER decide a game and suggesting they do is somehow not allowed or even worse that it somehow cosmically balances out to be exactly 50/50 in all cases. It's not based in reality.

A blown call has never decided a game unless the game was one play. A blown call is a blown call no matter what time it occurs. Just because it occured with 2:30 left versus 0:01.4 doesn't make one blown call worse than another. Whether the "foul" on Niang was whistled with 4 seconds or 15 minutes it was a terrible call. There were about 100 plays before that which influenced the game just as much as that crappy call. Hit one more three? It doesn't matter. Miss another three? It still doesn't matter. That single call didn't decide the outcome of the game.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

The calls are disheartening, and whatever your conclusion it really damages the game. Fairness is a benchmark in all sports. if it doesn't exist the sport does not continue to be fun to watch.

The real issue, in my opinion, is the league not hiring full time officials. Using Contractors that have no affiliation to your league and therefore lie outside accountability is a huge flaw in the system. I am sure it saves the leagues money, but all you can do is not schedule a ref who then will ref somewhere else. There could be a shortage of qualified referees that necessitates this arrangement, but there is no way to discipline these guys when they are wrong.

 

[IcSyU]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

The calls are disheartening, and whatever your conclusion it really damages the game. Fairness is a benchmark in all sports. if it doesn't exist the sport does not continue to be fun to watch.

The real issue, in my opinion, is the league not hiring full time officials. Using Contractors that have no affiliation to your league and therefore lie outside accountability is a huge flaw in the system. I am sure it saves the leagues money, but all you can do is not schedule a ref who then will ref somewhere else. There could be a shortage of qualified referees that necessitates this arrangement, but there is no way to discipline these guys when they are wrong.

There is accountability. These guys are full time referees and word travels between conferences. Generally when you get dropped as an official for one conference it's a death sentence to all of major conference basketball.

Unfortunately there aren't many (if any) great referees. Anyone who watched any of the Conference Finals and NBA Finals can't say with a straight face they think the referees did an excellent job being consistent and unbiased. The combination of subjectivity and volume is a train wreck for officiating basketball and the same goes for football. Was that enough of a bump to call hand checking or pass interference? Did the receiver run into the corner or was the defender set and took an offensive foul?

 

[fsanford]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I think at some point people really need to let this thing go..

 

[HFCS]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

A blown call has never decided a game unless the game was one play. A blown call is a blown call no matter what time it occurs. Just because it occured with 2:30 left versus 0:01.4 doesn't make one blown call worse than another. Whether the "foul" on Niang was whistled with 4 seconds or 15 minutes it was a terrible call. There were about 100 plays before that which influenced the game just as much as that crappy call. Hit one more three? It doesn't matter. Miss another three? It still doesn't matter. That single call didn't decide the outcome of the game.

I just don't agree with you that these errors all even out. It seems like wishful thinking in order to cope. Just disagree I guess.

 

[HFCS]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I think at some point people really need to let this thing go..

I let it go and accept that it's just the breaks. We're ISU and KU is KU, when we play them I expect it but it doesn't mean I'll deny that it happens. Thinking it all magically evens out all the time seems much more silly to me.

 

[rholtgraves]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

I let it go and accept that it's just the breaks. We're ISU and KU is KU, when we play them I expect it but it doesn't mean I'll deny that it happens. Thinking it all magically evens out all the time seems much more silly to me.

What does it matter then if its not intentional? If it is reality that they may get a few calls to go their way then isn't it on the opponent to win the game despite that. To make the plays to overcome that disadvantage just like any other disadvantage?
And if in fact it's just reality that it will happen and its not intentional then what the hell are you complaining about?

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

Refs are going to miss calls or call them wrong sometimes. The key is to be able to play through that. ISU couldn't get a stop when it mattered and they flat out stunk it up in OT. So regardless of the bad calls ISU could have won it but didn't make the plays they needed to which was a common theme in the close games. Even with the bad call against OSU they had chances to win that game and didnt make a play.

Try and remember how much emotion and momentum can swing in a game (particularly late in a game) for both teams. ISU was on the back end of a 13-0 run just minutes earlier so the momentum was clearly on ISU's side late in the game. They had just erased a 13 point deficit and that bucket and foul would have given ISU a 3 point lead and potentially a 4 point lead had Clyburn made his free throw. How confident would Ohio State have been playing late in that game knowing that in the previous 5 minutes of the game ISU had just pulled a 16 or 17 point swing on them? Would that pro Ohio State crowd have been blowing the roof off of that arena or would they have been sitting in stunned silence? That call killed ISU's momentum and gave Ohio State the opportunity they desperately needed to regroup and regain their composure.

To try and minimize the impact of that call and the resulting events that transpired after it is laughable.

 

[mikem]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

The quality of officiating in the NCAA and NBA has really sunk.

I agree with Johnny Orr who wanted to make refereeing a profession pay them well, don't let a guy do a game in Ames Monday, and Tucson on Tuesday.

I also agree with Johnny when he wanted to have the refs have to do press conferences after games. Make that guy that called the foul on Georges at the end of the KU game explain what it was that he saw.

Hold them to a higher standard of accountability, but pay them well for it.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

What does it matter then if its not intentional? If it is reality that they may get a few calls to go their way then isn't it on the opponent to win the game despite that. To make the plays to overcome that disadvantage just like any other disadvantage?
And if in fact it's just reality that it will happen and its not intentional then what the hell are you complaining about?

If you want to see the impact of Big XII officiating when it comes to Kansas just watch their regular season and Big XII Tournament games. Then watch their NCAA Tournament games. There is a reason that Kansas has so many down to the wire games and upset losses in recent NCAA Tournament games. They don't get their regular refs.

Kansas nearly lost to 16 seed Western Kentucky in the NCAA Tourney this year. The refs... Tim Clougherty, Frank Harvey, and Mike Kitts. Tim Clougherty who had reffed less then 3 Kansas games since 1997, Mike Kitts who had reffed less then 3 Kansas since 1996, and Frank Harvey who had reffed less then 3 Kansas games since 1997. (Had to ref a team a minimum of 3 times to even make the officials list which means these guys may have never reffed a game involving Kansas in their careers previously)

 

[kucyclone]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

If you want to see the impact of Big XII officiating when it comes to Kansas just watch their regular season and Big XII Tournament games. Then watch their NCAA Tournament games. There is a reason that Kansas has so many down to the wire games and upset losses in recent NCAA Tournament games. They don't get their regular refs.

Kansas nearly lost to 16 seed Western Kentucky in the NCAA Tourney this year. The refs... Tim Clougherty, Frank Harvey, and Mike Kitts. Tim Clougherty who had reffed less then 3 Kansas games since 1997, Mike Kitts who had reffed less then 3 Kansas since 1996, and Frank Harvey who had reffed less then 3 Kansas games since 1997. (Had to ref a team a minimum of 3 times to even make the officials list which means these guys may have never reffed a game involving Kansas in their careers previously)

You put in a lot of work for a lot of nonsense. Kansas has won more tournament games than any other school over the past seven years.

 

[State43]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

You put in a lot of work for a lot of nonsense. Kansas has won more tournament games than any other school over the past seven years.

You mean a blue blood basketball school has more wins in the tournament where they have more talent than 90% of the other teams every year? Weird...

 

[Yellow Snow]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

You put in a lot of work for a lot of nonsense. Kansas has won more tournament games than any other school over the past seven years.

What was the lowest seed KU has gotten in the tournament in the last 7 years? That is a big part of your statistic.

 

[trajanJ]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

If you want to see the impact of Big XII officiating when it comes to Kansas just watch their regular season and Big XII Tournament games. Then watch their NCAA Tournament games. There is a reason that Kansas has so many down to the wire games and upset losses in recent NCAA Tournament games. They don't get their regular refs.

Kansas nearly lost to 16 seed Western Kentucky in the NCAA Tourney this year. The refs... Tim Clougherty, Frank Harvey, and Mike Kitts. Tim Clougherty who had reffed less then 3 Kansas games since 1997, Mike Kitts who had reffed less then 3 Kansas since 1996, and Frank Harvey who had reffed less then 3 Kansas games since 1997. (Had to ref a team a minimum of 3 times to even make the officials list which means these guys may have never reffed a game involving Kansas in their careers previously)

Facts just don't support your argument. Lets take a logical look at their losses the last few years in the tournament. This year they lost to a very hot Michigan team that went to the NC game. Last year they lost to the NC Kentucky team in the NC. Two years ago they lost to VCU in the Elite Eight. Three years ago they lost to UNI by 2 points in what is by far their worst upset. Four years ago they lost to a favored MSU team that they took to the wire and MSU went on to the NC game. Five years ago they won a NC in the only Final Four in the history of the tournament to have all #1 seeds. Six years ago they lost to UCLA in an Elite Eight game in CA.

In the last 7 years the only school KU has lost to in the tourney that didn't end up making the Final Four was UNI and during that same span other than KU not a single team in the Big 12 made it to the Final Four. So you could make a pretty good case that most of KU's losses in the tournament are against better teams than they play in the conference. At least teams that are playing better at that moment than teams in the Big 12.

 

[CycloneErik]

Re: Kansas fans discussing the new rule changes on their board... wow is all i can sa

You put in a lot of work for a lot of nonsense. Kansas has won more tournament games than any other school over the past seven years.

Right. The easy and logical answer for close tournament games is that tournament teams are good, and the tournament tends to produce good games. It really can't be an issue of referee protection. That's a popular answer around here, but not really feasible.