It's on Fred

[SeaClone]

OP is exactly right. I'm glad the OP said it because if I had Cyclone78 would have called the NSA to find my address. Look..the OP prefaced everything with saying he thinks CFH is a good coach....it's ok to offer constructive criticism on a message board..it's his opinion it's why this board is here. If you disagree with him then offer a legit argument against his points. UAB was a terrible team, worse than TT, they got in the toruney by winning their conf tourney.

I agree. He put together a thoughtful post. He didn't say Hoiberg was an awful coach...quite the opposite actually. There's nothing wrong with taking off your rose colored Cyclone glasses and trying to analyze things objectively. Try to provide a thoughtful response if you disagree, rather than a thoughtless belittling or condescending response.

 

[SeaClone]

The coaching staff who watched him every day didn't feel he could contribute in meaningful spots, but you clearly think that he with out a doubt, 100% would. I don't view this staff as above criticism but man... these guys watched Edozie every damn day and felt he wouldn't have a positive impact by being out on the court.

Poor Edozie is Bubu 2.0. Question... Bubu gave way to Edozie... who replaces Edozie as the Imaginary Savior next year?

You have a serious reading comprehension issue or a wild imagination that inserts additional words into what people actually write. He never expressly stated that Edozie would 100% without a doubt contribute in a meaningful way, he didn't write anything that implied Edozie would 100% without a doubt contribute in a meaningful way, and nothing he wrote could lead to a reasonable inference that Edozie would 100% without a doubt contribute in a meaningful way. Everything he said was measured with words such as could or I think.

 

[Gunnerclone]

His first post got a few pages worth of responses, i'm not sure I would consider it a failure.

I made a thread on making threads that has multiple pages. Then I put a poll on it asking if the thread should have a poll. Got even more pages after that.

 

[Amesboy]

Maybe a tactic to light a fire under players &*^*& that are sleep walking and lethargic. Get some players out that are sucking and get some others in to try and get something going. I think Fred knows more than anyone he made coaching mistakes during this game. He trusted his boys too much to pull off another come from behind surge. Gas tank was empty.

 

[F5cy]

And once again people fail to recognize we were LEADING THE FREAKING GAME with 2 minutes to go. The offensive ineptitude in the final 2 minutes is what cost us the game. We scored a season low. We only gave up 60 points.

 

[TurbulentEddie]

 

[cyclonesherm]

And once again people fail to recognize we were LEADING THE FREAKING GAME with 2 minutes to go. The offensive ineptitude in the final 2 minutes is what cost us the game. We scored a season low. We only gave up 60 points.

UAB averaged 65ppg over their last ten. This included six OT periods. So, our D held a CUSA team to its average. I think the rebounding and defense could have been better.

 

[SeaClone]

UAB averaged 65ppg over their last ten. This included six OT periods. So, our D held a CUSA team to its average. I think the rebounding and defense could have been better.

Another way to look at it is a CUSA team's D held our O to 19 points under our season average. I think offense could have been much better.

 

[Beyerball]

I don't disagree or agree with all the points, but putting Edozie in the game to make a difference is one I don't agree with. You don't put in a guy that has played 9 minutes (and 8 more in our 37 point blow out vs. TT) all conference season once you are in the tournament. He hasn't been playing with these guys all year, just would not fit in to the line-up at this point. Not sure what you've been watching the past 5 years but that is not how Fred plays, he plays 7-8 guys a lot of minutes and that's why our chemistry peaks in March. You don't mess with that chemistry at this point in the year, even if it is for 5-10 minutes. Just a terrible idea.

So so you stick with a Senior that had gotten 0....ZERO...rebounds in the game. Pretty important position to grab some boards and pretty important game to grab them in. Edozie was a senior who practiced with this team every day and played, started actually, in the ncaa tourney last year, and we won! Like the OP said...it's not like any of us think Edozie plays 40 minutes. But as a HC you have to adjust to what's going on. Edozie had two skills, effective rebounder and hustles his *** off(not that this is a skill). Stick him in for 3-4 minutes and see if he makes a difference. If not, pull him. Sure Hindsight is 20/20 but coaches at this level don't get paid to have hindsight.

Edozie averaged 9 min a game and averaged 2.5 RPG. That's a pretty high average for 9 min a game. For the last time the dude can rebound. Yes we lost because we shot like crap but grab 10 more rebounds and that's 10 more possessions. Score on 3 of those, shooting just 30% and we are talking about playing Gonzaga this week.

 

[Cyballzz]

You have a serious reading comprehension issue or a wild imagination that inserts additional words into what people actually write. He never expressly stated that Edozie would 100% without a doubt contribute in a meaningful way, he didn't write anything that implied Edozie would 100% without a doubt contribute in a meaningful way, and nothing he wrote could lead to a reasonable inference that Edozie would 100% without a doubt contribute in a meaningful way. Everything he said was measured with words such as could or I think.

Thanks for your input! Ah using "measured words" to bang the drum with complaints about Fred not playing a guy for 2 years... but yeah that guy doesn't think he would contribute. In fact I am sure its the completely opposite right? Because people NEVER vehemently defend things that they don't believe. Nah I am sure I invented all that.

What I find funny.. your post right before this gem asked people not to belittle other people... than you attempted (poorly I might add) to belittle me.

I have nothing against Luth4cy, but I am sure he appreciates you fighting his battles for him. I'd be willing to bet you were sitting in your basement listening to this when you penned that "scathing" diatribe.

[video=youtube;XWHOF_0-6Hg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWHOF_0-6Hg[/video]

 

[isulive2train]

Hahahahahahahahahaahahah!! To this thread.

 

[NATEizKING]

I could not agree more. Every point OP made is valid and this was by far Fred's worst coaching job of the year. Didn't utilize timeouts and didn't manage the game, especially down the stretch. No reason whatsoever to continue to run plays through Georges at the end of the game when he is 27% from the field. Having Naz continue to jack up 3's and Georges forcing shots means Thomas and BDJ should have gotten a look in the 2nd half. Both sat and watched our 4 point lead dissolve with 1:37 left. I also agree with Edozie playing 3 or 4 minutes to go in and bang down low. Our physicality in the game was nonexistent.

I think a lot of it has to be put on the assistants too, because they are there to hold Hoiberg accountable and help him make decisions on personnel at different points of the game. Losing Bobby Lutz and Doc Sadler as assistants was unfortunate and definitely showed with our defense this year.


In closing, Hoiberg needs some grit and to get on the players, refs, and other coaches more than he does. He coaches like he is in the pros and just sits back a lot of the time. I think that philosophy and coaching style works well in the pros because players are "individuals" and don't play as much team ball. I don't see a lot of other "Championship" caliber coaches taking this approach in college. Brad Stevens, who was the most reserved coach out of any coach I've seen in college is the only coach I can think of who didn't really yell at his players, coaches, or the refs much. The best coaches yell at the at their players, coaches, and get on the refs throughout the game.

Hoiberg has only two technicals in his tenure. Weak.

I really think we'll come back in 2015-16 better than ever, but what a disappointing way end to this season.

No one else was bringing in a boat load of transfers, either. Fred is not the norm, innovation is a big factor in success.

 

[ronandkay]

I've now watched the game twice and read almost every single post about the UAB loss. I'm a longtime ISU fan going back to Barry Stevens. I don't live in Iowa anymore but a major metro city, so here is a little detached perspective. I love Fred and think he is a really good coach and could be great one day. I watched every single minute of every all but three games early in the season. However, this loss falls on him. I think the following points need to get made:

1. The team wasn't ready to play. This is on the coach. He has to make sure they are ready to go for the biggest stage of their careers.

2. Their problem was defense the entire year, especially the inability to get over screens. This never got fixed and cost them on the last UAB OB play. This is a coaching deficiency if it occurs over and over. Defense matters especially in the tournament.

3. Fred did nothing to adjust the tempo. You can press for steals and/or tempo. Fred never tried to push the pace with a deeper bench against a 19 win team.

4. They were getting killed on the boards and Edozie never got off the bench. 5-10 minutes of him knocking some people around might have helped. It's not enough to stay close against a UAB, he should have been upset they weren't destroying them making a statement.

5. At no time during the year did Fred ever really get on anyone. Last year he had Ejim and a 25 year old Kane to do it on the floor but not this year. He needs to know when to fill that hole. Calipari has multiple coddled McD AA and he said in an interview before halftime when they weren't playing well that either you perform or you sit. Players want to be challenged. Calm is great but everyone once in while you need to get in someone's grill.

6. Matt Thomas was playing well and sat in the 2nd half. If Long isn't hitting shots then he is liability on the floor because he can't cover anyone. Why not make a substitution? It's one and done. If your Thomas and you play when you aren't performing but sit when you are: what is the message?

7. It was a good season, but the tournament is what matters. If we want a nationally prominent program then you have to perform in the tourney.

If were an 8 seed and this happened, fine. We were a four against a team that had to win its conference tourney to even get into the dance. Fred had nearly a week to prepare. Jared Haase seemed to figure out. He called timeouts before TV timeouts, so ISU could never get into a rhythm. Nice coaching and I'm not saying he is better.

Go ahead lose your minds.

The way some people are they think Fred is above criticism. Contrary to popular belief Fred is NOT God! I do not know him personally but I'm sure if questioned, he would be the first one to look back & admit he has made bad coaching decisions. He is HUMAN folks. He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. He himself is NOT perfect. So allow some people to see examples of where MAYBE Fred did make a mistake or two without passing judgement on them?
There are a lot of pompous, arrogant & wanna be "comedians" on this site & shame on the moderators for not taking control of them more. This is supposed to be a public forum after all isn't it?

 

[Mumbai1986]

Fred needs an assistant that used to be a head coach.

 

[SeaClone]

Thanks for your input! Ah using "measured words" to bang the drum with complaints about Fred not playing a guy for 2 years... but yeah that guy doesn't think he would contribute. In fact I am sure its the completely opposite right? Because people NEVER vehemently defend things that they don't believe. Nah I am sure I invented all that.

What I find funny.. your post right before this gem asked people not to belittle other people... than you attempted (poorly I might add) to belittle me.

I have nothing against Luth4cy, but I am sure he appreciates you fighting his battles for him. I'd be willing to bet you were sitting in your basement listening to this when you penned that "scathing" diatribe.

Use of measured or "weasel" words is a skill. It allows an out if providing an opinion that is not a certainty or is unknowable. By definition, weasel words mean something less than 100% certainty. For example, "could" is used to indicate a possibility, rather than a certainty. His point was that nothing was working, putting Edozie in may (another weasel word) have helped, because his strength is rebounding and we were getting killed on the boards. Your position is that there is no possibility Edozie could have helped because he hadn't played much all year. Unfortunately, you did not leave a way out and opened yourself up to being categorically wrong. Fortunately for you, there is no way to prove whether either opinion is true.

P.S. Your comment about the basement is ironic and amusing on many levels, and I guess could be true in a most broad definition of the word, but I wish this helicopter would get away from my window so I can work.

 

[NATEizKING]

So so you stick with a Senior that had gotten 0....ZERO...rebounds in the game. Pretty important position to grab some boards and pretty important game to grab them in. Edozie was a senior who practiced with this team every day and played, started actually, in the ncaa tourney last year, and we won! Like the OP said...it's not like any of us think Edozie plays 40 minutes. But as a HC you have to adjust to what's going on. Edozie had two skills, effective rebounder and hustles his *** off(not that this is a skill). Stick him in for 3-4 minutes and see if he makes a difference. If not, pull him. Sure Hindsight is 20/20 but coaches at this level don't get paid to have hindsight.

Edozie averaged 9 min a game and averaged 2.5 RPG. That's a pretty high average for 9 min a game. For the last time the dude can rebound. Yes we lost because we shot like crap but grab 10 more rebounds and that's 10 more possessions. Score on 3 of those, shooting just 30% and we are talking about playing Gonzaga this week.

First:
Edozie played 9 minutes total in 20 of our 21 conference games. He played an additional 8 minutes in the Texas Tech game. The competition was superb in his 9mpg.

You take out his 9 vs. Mississippi Valley State (we won by 50) and 7 against Lamar (we won by 37) and he has 24 rebounds on the year in those 9mpg.

Second:
Would you have put Edozie in vs. Texas, OU, or KU?

If yes, would the result have been the same?

If no, why would you do it in the NCAA tournament?

 

[heitclone]

And once again people fail to recognize we were LEADING THE FREAKING GAME with 2 minutes to go. The offensive ineptitude in the final 2 minutes is what cost us the game. We scored a season low. We only gave up 60 points.

Exactly. If for the rest of his career, Fred Hoiberg coached teams gave up 60 points every game, I'd put Fred's winning % at about 99.9999999999%.

 

[NATEizKING]

The way some people are they think Fred is above criticism. Contrary to popular belief Fred is NOT God! I do not know him personally but I'm sure if questioned, he would be the first one to look back & admit he has made bad coaching decisions. He is HUMAN folks. He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. He himself is NOT perfect. So allow some people to see examples of where MAYBE Fred did make a mistake or two without passing judgement on them?
There are a lot of pompous, arrogant & wanna be "comedians" on this site & shame on the moderators for not taking control of them more. This is supposed to be a public forum after all isn't it?

Prove it.

 

[EarthIsMan]

There have various post on this thread about UAB team dictating pace of the game which is not true. There were 69 possessions in the game which is right on target for what ISU average over the course of the season. BUT while the 69 total possessions/game was typical of ISU, UAB had more possession due to ISUs uncharacteristically high turnover rate % and poor defensive rebounds (i.e. allowing UAB offensive rebounds). So many of the rebounds or ricochets off the rim were just favorable bounces to UAB which I attribute to luck and randomness. Of course, there was plenty of times an ISU player was not getting a their body on a UAB player to get good rebounding position, but there were a lot of unfavorable bounces.

I do not think Edozie would have helped much. While there was difficulty getting defensive rebounds, we needed someone to hit some shots. ISU got a lot of good looks, but should could not connect or get in an offensive rhythm (Niang, Naz, Hogue)....it was just one of those games. If anything I would have given more 2nd half minutes and run more sets through Thomas to ride the hot hand and facilitate spacing through him.

I do wonder how much some of Dejean-Jones discontentment caused distractions, but assuming all of the possible distractions that could be at play for any player at any game or any time I doubt that it played much factor.

After watching the game multiple times and breaking it down it was a very fluky game and perfect combination of unfortunate events. With ISU up 51-55, I felt pretty good about the outcome of the game. Hell even at ISU 57-56, I was nervous, but thought it was ISUs to lose. UAB made some atypical plays and had some fortunate bounces. I don't think there is any argument that in a best of 5 game series who would advance between UAB and ISU. UAB played a great game aided with some good fortune and momentum killing timeouts.

Ultimately, I thought it was a well-coached game...there was just uncharacteristic plays by players we have depended on all year....and there was no reason why CFH should have not gone to them late in this game either. Schematically there is nothing major I would have changed.

p.s. I can sleep now that I have "beaten the dead horse"

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Scoring wins games. Nearly all of the sweet 16 are in the top 40 in scoring efficiency. We lost the UAB game due to ****** offense, not bad D. Edozie would have only made that worse.

If we had our normal offensive production we win by 10+.

How many of those teams are ranked in the top 50 in defensive efficiency?

1. Kentucky
4. Arizona
6. Louisville
8. Wichita State
9. Utah
12. Oklahoma
24. Gonzaga
34. Wisconsin
45. West Virginia

That is 9 of the remaining 16 teams in the NCAA Tournament are ranked 45th or better in defensive efficiency.

Field goal % D...

1. Kentucky
6. Utah
10. Oklahoma
17. Louisville
19. Gonzaga
21. Arizona
25. Michigan State
32. North Carolina
41. Wichita State
44. NC State

That is 10 of the remaining 16 teams in the NCAA Tournament that rank in the top 44 in field goal % defense.

Did anybody watch that NC State game when they upset #1 seed Villanova? We all know NC State didn't win that game with their offense. Villanova shot a season low 25.9% in the paint and 31% overall for the game.