It's on Fred
- Thread starter cyclonesherm
- Start date
It's interesting... You despise the "spoiled brat" fans because they are making judgments and voicing their opinions about the team and their performance in the UAB game. Then you run your mouth and make judgments about others with this holier than thou attitude. Irony isn't lost on you is it?
If other fans having opinions you don't agree with makes your enjoyment go away... I'd suggest you find something else to do with your time or simply get over it.
We went 25-9, finished 2nd in the Big 12 and won the conference tourney this year. Even if our football history isn't as good as basketball, do you really want to compare that to what happened on the football field last fall, or for that matter what's happened under Fred the last 5 years compared to football? Sounds like you're setting us up for another bad football season and we should be ok with that since Fred lost an NCAA basketball game after an otherwise great year. Not really getting the correlation.
I love the people that want Edozie to play when we are struggling to score. He's not a good offensive player at all. If anyone was their regular selves at all in the UAB game we would have won.
Hopefully this will enlighten some of the fans that think this year's team dogged it on D compared to last years team, and we even held UAB to 9 points below our defensive average. Some fans really need to think back to the Gmac years when we have an occasional tough loss.
can't we just agree that we had a great season...and that great season has been tempered with a VERY unexpected loss that has left a lot of people, me included, befuddled as to how that could happen?
Is that "on Fred" as this thread implies? As much so as it is on the guys who didn't rebound, didn't make shots and who may not have been prepared for the game.
But as I said to someone in another thread, I can't ever believe that it was lack of effort on the part of our players or coaches...which again, IMO, is the ONLY thing we should ever argue about. We f'ed up and got beat. It happens to every team...except maybe Kentucky.
Is that "on Fred" as this thread implies? As much so as it is on the guys who didn't rebound, didn't make shots and who may not have been prepared for the game.
But as I said to someone in another thread, I can't ever believe that it was lack of effort on the part of our players or coaches...which again, IMO, is the ONLY thing we should ever argue about. We f'ed up and got beat. It happens to every team...except maybe Kentucky.
It is on Fred.
Making 4 consecutive NCAA's? That's on Fred.
Winning back-to-back conference tourney championships? On Fred.
Making Iowa State basketball a nationally relevant program again? Yep, that's Fred too.
Bringing back Hilton Magic? Gotta give it to Fred.
Sweet 16 last year? You guessed it - Fred.
3 consecutive newcomers of the year and last year's player of the year? Hmmmm I think that might have something to do with Fred too.
I can keep going...
Making 4 consecutive NCAA's? That's on Fred.
Winning back-to-back conference tourney championships? On Fred.
Making Iowa State basketball a nationally relevant program again? Yep, that's Fred too.
Bringing back Hilton Magic? Gotta give it to Fred.
Sweet 16 last year? You guessed it - Fred.
3 consecutive newcomers of the year and last year's player of the year? Hmmmm I think that might have something to do with Fred too.
I can keep going...
I think the expectations for football will be very realistic this coming fall. Personally... I'll be impressed if Rhoads can get one game in the W column this season.
As for basketball... it's a little different. 4 straight 20 win seasons, 4 straight NCAA Tournaments, the longest current streak of being ranked in the AP poll in school history, etc... Now these Final Four expectations were a bit overboard but to expect a team that grabs a #3 seed and has obviously favorable matchups due to that high seeding to at least make it to the Sweet 16... that isn't crazy. For people to be disappointed in their first round flameout is justified. If we all remember it wasn't just the media that created the fan frenzy and hyped expectations... Fred Hoiberg himself said they would be unveiling a national championship banner this year. Now that raises the bar for people.
I don't think anyone is saying ISU had a bad season. The overall season as a whole was another step in the right direction. The overall health of the program is very good and the trajectory is still on the rise. It was a perfect storm really. ISU was so close to making a really deep run last year but got derailed by an unfortunate injury. They didn't play particularly well against UCONN (the Huskies played lights out) and it was a 5 or 6 point game. The "what if" factor was strong at the end of last season and that only raised the level of optimism for this season. To have it end the way it did this year... that was a really tough one to swallow. I can't blame anyone for ignoring how it ended and focusing on the positives and I can't blame anyone for being so disappointed in how it ended that they seem to forget all of the positives. It is what it is. Some people are pumping sunshine and some feel like they are at a funeral. To each their own but we are all here to discuss and share opinions.
Oy vey! Okay, so I'm not comparing football and basketball, other than to say that success in basketball is easier to achieve than it is in football because 1 hit on a recruit can dramatically change the course for a given basketball team, whereas it takes multiple recruiting hits to be dramatically change the course of a given football team. That was just a general comparison between the two sports, having no bearing on comparing the relative success of each program at ISU.
My point is this: For both sports, we need to account for historical perspective when we analyze. Note that I am pulling the following numbers out my *** based purely on anecdotal information from the past 15-ish years for basketball. That means in basketball, from a historical perspective we have a team that can contend for a final four once every 15-ish years, we make the sweet 16 once every 4-6 years, contend for the conference once every 5 years and have occasional down years where we only win 14-17 games and miss the tournament. I readily admit that Hoiberg has raised most of those bars in the current era, but I tried to include more than the Hoiberg era. So, our ceiling is probably somewhere around the final four and our floor is somewhere around 14 wins.
Football is an entirely different animal. Based on the conference as currently constituted and our history (and regardless of the coach), the ceiling for our football team is probably winning around 8 games and making a bowl, and our floor is probably winning 2-3 games. In other years we contend for a bowl...sometimes we fall a win short, and sometimes we squeak into a bowl. I agree we need to see improvement this year and get back into the 5-6 win range, because 2 years being mired in this rut is long enough. However, to expect that we will never have another 2 or 3 win year is unrealistic when looking at it from a historical perspective.
Well said, and he did this taking over a program coming off 5 bad years and in terrible shape with players leaving in droves. What Fred has done in a short time is incredible. Yes we were upset in the NCAA for the first time under Fred, but upsets happen every year and it was bound to happen to us again sometime, just like it happened to LE with a conference championship team. Just part of being in the NCAA. The nice thing is under Fred we can almost expect being in the tourney every year, and how often have we been able to say that during our long basketball history?
You make some good points but my ISU history goes back a lot farther than yours as I remember the good Earl Bruce teams and a lot of barren basketball years until Johnny had some success. But even with our more recent success in basketball we have not been to the Final 4 and only one elite 8, so our basketball history is better lately, but overall not great. I also know how quickly things can go bad like it did under GMac (and may be now for K-state), so I try to value the good seasons like this one and keep it in perspective, even if it did end in an upset loss.
Here is what Edozie's stat line was in the 2 tournament games he started combined.
| Stat | UNC | UConn | Total |
| Minutes | 16 | 7 | 23 |
| Points | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Rebounds | 4 | 0 | 4 |
| FGM/FGA | 0-2 | 0-0 | 0-2 |
| Blocks | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Assits | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| FTM/FTA | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 |
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No - his comments are far from silly, and VERY well thought out and stated...and he is FAR from over-reacting the way you are...look at the number of "thumbs up"! Only fools and losers resist fair and constructive commentary, and I believe Fred is WELL able to make positive adjustments!
PS: I had been urging more use of Edozie through MUCH of the season, and five or ten minutes of his rebounding intensity MIGHT WELL have been enough to change the outcome against UAB!
PS: I had been urging more use of Edozie through MUCH of the season, and five or ten minutes of his rebounding intensity MIGHT WELL have been enough to change the outcome against UAB!
We let a 6'4 bench guard take 11 boards... Getting destroyed on the boards is what frustrated me the most.
