Good Idea to put Todd Sturdy as QB coach

[Section110]

#1 - Yes, CPR hired Mess which many fans questioned. However, we don't know how many others wanted the job so it is hard to judge that hire. We just had a young up-and-comer coordinator from a lower level program and (1) he couldn't do much here and (2) many fans wanted him out. So I doubt there were too many clamoring for the job.

#2 - When your head coach has a background on defense, not sure how you have an OC and not have him call plays.

#3 - Most head coaches ask their OC to operate a system they (the head coach) wants. Plus it was basically a continuation of our previous offense, which was familiar to the players and position coaches.

#4 - Klenakis didn't work out but had a great resume. CPR didn't have the benefit of hindsight (like you do) when he made the hire.#

#5 - Yes, the D struggled. But it has always struggled here and will always struggle at ISU. We aren't able to get elite defenders here and can't stockpile talent. The staff missed on a few recruits which impacted our depth. But there is not way you will ever convince me that the struggles of our defense were not related to the struggles of our offense. Look at the drive chart for our games against Baylor, for example (3 plays, 2 plays, 3, 11 for 36 yards, 4, 3, 3, 6, 6, 1, 3, 4, 1, 3, 6, 1). Not helping your defense out, especially when playing an explosive team like Baylor.

So you are admitting CPR is partly to blame. That's really all I ask.

My thoughts on your points...

#1 - CPR hired Mess and it didn't work out. Of course he can't predict the future, but that doesn't mean he's void of blame for the hire.

#2 and #3 combined - When you're a head coach who has a defensive background then why would you ask your new OC to operate your system considering you are a defensive coach? I get that it was the system installed by Herman but guess what? Herman was gone. That means the expert on the system being operated was no longer on the sidelines. Which is exactly why it was a bad position to put Mess in. He was being asked to operate an offense in which no one on the sidelines was really an expert in. The ol' square peg through a round hole theory. Would you ask a French chef' to smoke some BBQ brisket? Sure they might be able to. It might be edible, but it isn't going to be near as good as it would be if you asked a seasoned pitmaster to do it.

#4 - Very similar to #1. He couldn't see the future, but as the head coach the buck stops with him. He has to take responsibility for his decisions. Instead he publically threw the offense under the bus last year, and it appears the locker room became divided.

#5 - You have a defensive minded head coach. If anything, by year #6 the defense should be the strength of the team not the weakness. Your entire point is just one big excuse.

 

[im4cyclones]

So you are admitting CPR is partly to blame. That's really all I ask.

My thoughts on your points...

#1 - CPR hired Mess and it didn't work out. Of course he can't predict the future, but that doesn't mean he's void of blame for the hire.

#2 and #3 combined - When you're a head coach who has a defensive background then why would you ask your new OC to operate your system considering you are a defensive coach? I get that it was the system installed by Herman but guess what? Herman was gone. That means the expert on the system being operated was no longer on the sidelines. Which is exactly why it was a bad position to put Mess in. He was being asked to operate an offense in which no one on the sidelines was really an expert in. The ol' square peg through a round hole theory. Would you ask a French chef' to smoke some BBQ brisket? Sure they might be able to. It might be edible, but it isn't going to be near as good as it would be if you asked a seasoned pitmaster to do it.

#4 - Very similar to #1. He couldn't see the future, but as the head coach the buck stops with him. He has to take responsibility for his decisions. Instead he publically threw the offense under the bus last year, and it appears the locker room became divided.

#5 - You have a defensive minded head coach. If anything, by year #6 the defense should be the strength of the team not the weakness. Your entire point is just one big excuse.

First, why do you care? You aren't a fan of ISU so why do you care who is to blame?

Herman had a system installed. So, how do you know Rhoads forced Mess to run the system? Even if he did, it isn't like Mess was new to the team or its system. He was an assistant here. He and the players knew the terminology and the playbook. It would only make for an easier transition for a new OC. So, even if Rhoads forced Mess to run Herman's system, that doesn't seem like a bad idea. So that is a non-issue.

Second, the spread was a system that our head coach found difficult to defend during his tenure as a defensive coordinator. He has been quoted saying as much. Therefore, my guess is that is the reason he wanted us to be a spread team. I assume that he feels it forces the team to defend the entire field, thus negating the athletic advantage they would have. That only seems to make sense.

And it isn't excuses to say we can't get high-level talent in Ames and certainly can't stockpile it. That is a recruiting reality. To ignore it is foolish. Lil' ole' Iowa would also struggle defensively in an offensive-minded conference like the B12. Shoot, they struggle with Northwestern. What kind of offense does Northwestern run? I-formation? Now imagine that with the athletes of Oklahoma and Baylor.

 

[cyhiphopp]

First, why do you care? You aren't a fan of ISU so why do you care who is to blame?

He wants to hear us bash CPR. Hawk fans are convinced that rah rah coaches are terrible compared to gum chewing tools.

 

[im4cyclones]

He wants to hear us bash CPR. Hawk fans are convinced that rah rah coaches are terrible compared to gum chewing tools.

I don't understand why people get off on that. He can have his opinion about Rhoads? Why would he care what our opinions are? Speaks to some insecurities, I think.

 

[CloneIce]

We never got rid of him. He just moved to QBs.

Thanks, I was thinking of Todd Fitch!

 

[NickTheGreat]

Who put Mess in that position? CPR
Who allowed Mess to call the plays? CPR
Who asked Mess to operate an offense utilizing someone else's system? CPR
Who put Klenakis in his position? CPR

Do you see a trend yet?

Who hired CPR? Jamie Pollard
Who hired JP? Geoffrey
Who hired Geoffrey? Board of Regents
Who hired BOR? The Governor and State Senate
Who hired them? The voters.

So it is actually our fault. :swoon:

 

[Section110]

Who hired CPR? Jamie Pollard
Who hired JP? Geoffrey
Who hired Geoffrey? Board of Regents
Who hired BOR? The Governor and State Senate
Who hired them? The voters.

So it is actually our fault. :swoon:

This is an interesting perspective... However, I would argue that it isn't a fair comparison. Pollard is ultimately judged by the success of the basketball and football teams. He hit a homerun with Hoiberg so that keeps his position nice and cozy. Geoffrey is responsible for the university as a whole. The athletic dept's performance is only one piece of his puzzle. Obviously the academic side of things is where his priority is. Likewise, the BORs focus on everything.

If multiple issues were going on with the athletics and academics at ISU then Geoffrey would probably be in hot water. If the basketball and football teams were struggling at ISU then Pollard would start to feel some heat. So when you consider the fact that both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball struggled mightily under Rhoads' watch last year I think it makes perfect sense why someone would say the responsibility lies at his feet.

 

[im4cyclones]

This is an interesting perspective... However, I would argue that it isn't a fair comparison. Pollard is ultimately judged by the success of the basketball and football teams. He hit a homerun with Hoiberg so that keeps his position nice and cozy. Geoffrey is responsible for the university as a whole. The athletic dept's performance is only one piece of his puzzle. Obviously the academic side of things is where his priority is. Likewise, the BORs focus on everything.

If multiple issues were going on with the athletics and academics at ISU then Geoffrey would probably be in hot water. If the basketball and football teams were struggling at ISU then Pollard would start to feel some heat. So when you consider the fact that both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball struggled mightily under Rhoads' watch last year I think it makes perfect sense why someone would say the responsibility lies at his feet.

Why do you even post here? About what are you so insecure that you get you jollies posting on a rival team's forum? It obviously isn't for intelligent discussion. Insecurities about you favorite school? Or something more personal? Career? Relationships? Body image?

I can understand posting after a big win to rub it in - don't agree with it, but I understand it. I could even understand conversation to get the other side of a viewpoint. But to continuously post such thick-headed nonsense in July? You enjoy arguing? You feel a deep-seeded need to be disliked. You have an inferiority complex and try to make yourself feel better by making others feel worse? You are a sadist?

Dont be so quick to brush this aside. You aren't enlightening us with your "wisdom". You aren't changing anyone's mind on here and I think you know that. You might need to meet with a mental health counselor before your issues manifest themselves in more dangerous ways.

 

[JDDCy]

FYI. Geoffrey is no longer Iowa State's president. I would not expect you to know that since you are a Hawkeye fan that comes to CF acting like you care about ISU.

 

[MaccloNe]

the **** we had coaching the OL was partly to blame.

 

[CycloneErik]

Question: Isn't last year over?
The offense was horrible. The defense was also terrible. None of that impacts the new season right now

 

[Wally86]

IMO There have been some issues with CPR being overly involved with the offense (rotating QB continuum and lack of offensive freedom). Mess looked to be CPRs lackey and called plays like a lackey. CPR appeared to add coach K as a support for Mess knowing Mess needed help. What we all learned, the sum of the parts can be less then the parts when not assembled with a coherent vision.

This year it looks like CPR has let go of controlling the offense knowing his job depends on it (we will see during the first game). Management at the lowest possible level understands the issues best and makes the best corrections at the level of execution. Separate and strong offensive and defensive minds should yield a complete team. A team that is better than the sum of its parts. The future looks bright.

To the OPs question, with Mangino at the offensive reigns, Sturdy should do well with the QBs.

 

[Wesley]

First, why do you care? You aren't a fan of ISU so why do you care who is to blame?

Herman had a system installed. So, how do you know Rhoads forced Mess to run the system? Even if he did, it isn't like Mess was new to the team or its system. He was an assistant here. He and the players knew the terminology and the playbook. It would only make for an easier transition for a new OC. So, even if Rhoads forced Mess to run Herman's system, that doesn't seem like a bad idea. So that is a non-issue.

Second, the spread was a system that our head coach found difficult to defend during his tenure as a defensive coordinator. He has been quoted saying as much. Therefore, my guess is that is the reason he wanted us to be a spread team. I assume that he feels it forces the team to defend the entire field, thus negating the athletic advantage they would have. That only seems to make sense.

And it isn't excuses to say we can't get high-level talent in Ames and certainly can't stockpile it. That is a recruiting reality. To ignore it is foolish. Lil' ole' Iowa would also struggle defensively in an offensive-minded conference like the B12. Shoot, they struggle with Northwestern. What kind of offense does Northwestern run? I-formation? Now imagine that with the athletes of Oklahoma and Baylor.

We claimed to be a spread team, but the opponents defense did not spread enough to do much for us.

 

[Section110]

Why do you even post here? About what are you so insecure that you get you jollies posting on a rival team's forum? It obviously isn't for intelligent discussion. Insecurities about you favorite school? Or something more personal? Career? Relationships? Body image?

I can understand posting after a big win to rub it in - don't agree with it, but I understand it. I could even understand conversation to get the other side of a viewpoint. But to continuously post such thick-headed nonsense in July? You enjoy arguing? You feel a deep-seeded need to be disliked. You have an inferiority complex and try to make yourself feel better by making others feel worse? You are a sadist?

Dont be so quick to brush this aside. You aren't enlightening us with your "wisdom". You aren't changing anyone's mind on here and I think you know that. You might need to meet with a mental health counselor before your issues manifest themselves in more dangerous ways.

What's funny is that when I say these things it's considered "thick-headed nonsense", but when someone else does who you know is a Cyclone fan it's a perfectly fair assessment. Wally86 just said basically the same exact thing I've been saying about the way CPR handled the Messingham situation yet you don't whine to him about it, but when I say it you throw a tantrum like a 4 year old.

I said CPR was way to controlling with the offense last year. He made Mess run a system that wasn't his, and he stepped in far too often. It's pretty clear already that he's allowing Mangino to run his own show. The only point I'm making is that clearly Mess didn't get the same shot that Mangino is getting. For those reasons, all of the blame he receives is a little unfair because CPR had a lot to do with it as well. To CPR's credit, he has recognized that and he's apparently trying to address it by not micromanaging the offense.

If you just don't like hearing my opinion then ignore me. I'm fine with that, but at least recognize that nothing I've said in this thread is out of line. You simply think it's out of line because my opinion comes from a different perspective than most here.

 

[im4cyclones]

What's funny is that when I say these things it's considered "thick-headed nonsense", but when someone else does who you know is a Cyclone fan it's a perfectly fair assessment. Wally86 just said basically the same exact thing I've been saying about the way CPR handled the Messingham situation yet you don't whine to him about it, but when I say it you throw a tantrum like a 4 year old.

I said CPR was way to controlling with the offense last year. He made Mess run a system that wasn't his, and he stepped in far too often. It's pretty clear already that he's allowing Mangino to run his own show. The only point I'm making is that clearly Mess didn't get the same shot that Mangino is getting. For those reasons, all of the blame he receives is a little unfair because CPR had a lot to do with it as well. To CPR's credit, he has recognized that and he's apparently trying to address it by not micromanaging the offense.

If you just don't like hearing my opinion then ignore me. I'm fine with that, but at least recognize that nothing I've said in this thread is out of line. You simply think it's out of line because my opinion comes from a different perspective than most here.

First, unless you are quoting Wally86 from somewhere else, you two aren't saying the same thing. He says he heard CPR interfered in the offense. Ok, fine. You, on the other hand, are intent on getting ISU fans to blame CPR for everything. In fact, you said as much in one of your posts. Why do you want ISU fans to blame Rhoads?

No tantrum here. I am really seeking to understand what payoff there is for you in posting here. I can't think of a reason that a rational person continuously posts on a rival team's website. You obviously can't be getting a sense of belonging or acceptance. I noticed you brushed this aside. I feel sorry for you.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

The Offense was less enjoyable than a trip to the dentist. However, I thought that the WR's looked better under Sturdy. The QB and OL play was what was woeful.

I think Sturdy will be a big improvement over Messingham. Who was out of depth.

 

[Section110]

First, unless you are quoting Wally86 from somewhere else, you two aren't saying the same thing. He says he heard CPR interfered in the offense. Ok, fine. You, on the other hand, are intent on getting ISU fans to blame CPR for everything. In fact, you said as much in one of your posts. Why do you want ISU fans to blame Rhoads?

No tantrum here. I am really seeking to understand what payoff there is for you in posting here. I can't think of a reason that a rational person continuously posts on a rival team's website. You obviously can't be getting a sense of belonging or acceptance. I noticed you brushed this aside. I feel sorry for you.

Which is exactly what I said! I simply said Mess should not be blamed for everything because part of it was on CPR! Good lord. If that bothers you that much I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Some of you guys just don't want to place any blame whatsoever on CPR so you pin it all on Mess, and frankly that doesn't make any sense. I'm not trying to blame CPR for everything. I've acknowledged the fact that Mess was a bad hire and he didn't perform. I'm just saying the blame should be shared equally instead of pinned all on him because he was the fall guy.

I post here because I enjoy the discussion. There's a lot more of it because there are a lot more talking points regarding ISU Football. Before last season, the Hawkeye boards were ripe with discussion because everyone felt differently about Coach Ferentz after the 4-8 season. This year most Hawk fans are on the same page because of the unexpected success the Hawks found last year, and everyone is looking forward to the upcoming season with hope that it could be a special one. There isn't near as much discussion when everyone is on the same page. In other words, the Hawkeye boards are really boring right now, and this one provides a little more enjoyment in terms of discussion. Go ahead and say I'm looking for acceptance. That's laughable. Ho hum.... Guess I'll just go outside and eat some worms.

 

[cuphues]

What's funny is that when I say these things it's considered "thick-headed nonsense", but when someone else does who you know is a Cyclone fan it's a perfectly fair assessment. Wally86 just said basically the same exact thing I've been saying about the way CPR handled the Messingham situation yet you don't whine to him about it, but when I say it you throw a tantrum like a 4 year old.

I said CPR was way to controlling with the offense last year. He made Mess run a system that wasn't his, and he stepped in far too often. It's pretty clear already that he's allowing Mangino to run his own show. The only point I'm making is that clearly Mess didn't get the same shot that Mangino is getting. For those reasons, all of the blame he receives is a little unfair because CPR had a lot to do with it as well. To CPR's credit, he has recognized that and he's apparently trying to address it by not micromanaging the offense.

If you just don't like hearing my opinion then ignore me. I'm fine with that, but at least recognize that nothing I've said in this thread is out of line. You simply think it's out of line because my opinion comes from a different perspective than most here.

For the love of God, please go away.

 

[WrestlerJJE]

IMO There have been some issues with CPR being overly involved with the offense (rotating QB continuum and lack of offensive freedom). Mess looked to be CPRs lackey and called plays like a lackey. CPR appeared to add coach K as a support for Mess knowing Mess needed help. What we all learned, the sum of the parts can be less then the parts when not assembled with a coherent vision.

This year it looks like CPR has let go of controlling the offense knowing his job depends on it (we will see during the first game). Management at the lowest possible level understands the issues best and makes the best corrections at the level of execution. Separate and strong offensive and defensive minds should yield a complete team. A team that is better than the sum of its parts. The future looks bright.

To the OPs question, with Mangino at the offensive reigns, Sturdy should do well with the QBs.

Ya, you could definitely tell that it was controlled. I think that's why CPR made that statement in the spring that he doesn't step into the offensive meeting, because that is Manginos job. Honestly, you could tell CPR was controlling the system, my guess, he wanted to keep the team held together thru the bumpy season they had. hopefully these new coaches step up and make this offense go ape ****!:arghh: