Why should he recruit 4 year guys if he couldn't honestly tell them he'd be there 4 years. In my opinion, Fred comes out as the good guy in this. A lot of coaches would lie, but maybe Fred didn't. If he wanted to recruit guys ranked 65-150 who are still very highly recruited, he probably would have had to lie to them to get them.
Future recruiting - discussion
- Thread starter allfourcy
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Why should he recruit 4 year guys if he couldn't honestly tell them he'd be there 4 years. In my opinion, Fred comes out as the good guy in this. A lot of coaches would lie, but maybe Fred didn't. If he wanted to recruit guys ranked 65-150 who are still very highly recruited, he probably would have had to lie to them to get them.
I like Prohm. I hope he succeeds. But the "roster cliff" coming up worries me.
Fred left a team that was loaded for Year One and, rather unintentionally I think, pretty good for Year Two. A core of Monte Morris (most figured he was gone after last year), Naz Mitrou-Long (ditto), Matt Thomas (previously thought a bust, now a hugely important and versatile asset), and Deonte Burton (recruited under the Fred regime, mercurial as a player, but extremely talented nonetheless) is better than 90%+ of the teams in the country. We thought Monte was gone, Naz would be gone, Matt wasn't much worth having in the Big 12, and Burton was an unknown.
So this is still very much an echo of the Hoiberg era. Looking at our scholarship chart for next year, though, I do have to have some concerns...
PG) Jackson
SG) Long
SF) Babb
PF) Young
C) Carter, Kasongo, Lard
That's it. That's a rough starting lineup for next year.
Jackson has had a ton of hype as a "Mike Taylor" type, but you never quite know what you get with a JUCO at point guard. Babb has had some press conference hype, as well, but wasn't particularly productive as a freshman at Arkansas, even if it sounds like they were sad to see him go. Long, Young, and Lard were all in the ~150 range with upside potential, but they're all going to be young and raw. None were on the level of 50-100 national rankings of Niang, Morris, Thomas, and the key high school players recruited during that era. Carter didn't impress during his freshman year, despite ample playing time available in the post, and Kasongo has a big body but is on his third school in as many years and has never put up intense numbers.
Yes yes, pessimist me, and some of these guys are going to be better than the above, but some of them are going to be worse, too.
I admire the job that the staff did in pulling together a trio of good freshmen, Jackson, Malou, and "instant experience" in the front court with Holden and Bowie for next year. Considering the circumstances and roster needs and the odd transition, they did well. However, considering...
-there's a ton of playing time to sell
-Hilton is awesome
-the conference is awesome
-the fans are awesome
-we're on national TV twice a week for months at at time
-the national media likes the program and speaks highly of it
-we make the NCAA tournament basically every year
-Georges and Abdel went in the draft
...we really should be getting some young talent.
Add in the fact that the "emergency class" from last year was mostly recruited by TJ... as was most of the good prep and high school talent that we have had on our roster for the past decade, with McD and Hoiberg and a distinct absence of such talent during the few years that TJ was in Seattle... well, save for Monte Morris, there haven't been many good ones in cardinal and gold that weren't here because of him. I know he had to leave and move on, but I really hope Prohm and the current staff can keep turning players up on this level without him.
I'm okay with us having a down year, where we are super young but super talented, play fast and have fun, and Jackson scores a ton and is 1st/2nd all-conference even if we don't win many games or even make the NIT if it is clear that the guys we have, either freshman or JUCOs previously unused to Big 12 ball, are going to bring it the next year, even more the case if we have some good transfers coming off a redshirt to join them. I would like things to "feel" like they did during Diante Garrett's senior year that, even if we didn't win much, the program was headed in the right direction and fundamentally solid on the formation of the roster.
Prohm's got that level of rebuild job coming almost, at least in terms of roster though not in terms of program reputation, thankfully. Another something like a Cameron Payne to lead us out of that transition would be real nice there.
I'll wait to see what we have, but it's hard not seeing us struggle right now. I just want the conditions around where I don't think struggling is going to become a new normal. :/
Fred left a team that was loaded for Year One and, rather unintentionally I think, pretty good for Year Two. A core of Monte Morris (most figured he was gone after last year), Naz Mitrou-Long (ditto), Matt Thomas (previously thought a bust, now a hugely important and versatile asset), and Deonte Burton (recruited under the Fred regime, mercurial as a player, but extremely talented nonetheless) is better than 90%+ of the teams in the country. We thought Monte was gone, Naz would be gone, Matt wasn't much worth having in the Big 12, and Burton was an unknown.
So this is still very much an echo of the Hoiberg era. Looking at our scholarship chart for next year, though, I do have to have some concerns...
PG) Jackson
SG) Long
SF) Babb
PF) Young
C) Carter, Kasongo, Lard
That's it. That's a rough starting lineup for next year.
Jackson has had a ton of hype as a "Mike Taylor" type, but you never quite know what you get with a JUCO at point guard. Babb has had some press conference hype, as well, but wasn't particularly productive as a freshman at Arkansas, even if it sounds like they were sad to see him go. Long, Young, and Lard were all in the ~150 range with upside potential, but they're all going to be young and raw. None were on the level of 50-100 national rankings of Niang, Morris, Thomas, and the key high school players recruited during that era. Carter didn't impress during his freshman year, despite ample playing time available in the post, and Kasongo has a big body but is on his third school in as many years and has never put up intense numbers.
Yes yes, pessimist me, and some of these guys are going to be better than the above, but some of them are going to be worse, too.
I admire the job that the staff did in pulling together a trio of good freshmen, Jackson, Malou, and "instant experience" in the front court with Holden and Bowie for next year. Considering the circumstances and roster needs and the odd transition, they did well. However, considering...
-there's a ton of playing time to sell
-Hilton is awesome
-the conference is awesome
-the fans are awesome
-we're on national TV twice a week for months at at time
-the national media likes the program and speaks highly of it
-we make the NCAA tournament basically every year
-Georges and Abdel went in the draft
...we really should be getting some young talent.
Add in the fact that the "emergency class" from last year was mostly recruited by TJ... as was most of the good prep and high school talent that we have had on our roster for the past decade, with McD and Hoiberg and a distinct absence of such talent during the few years that TJ was in Seattle... well, save for Monte Morris, there haven't been many good ones in cardinal and gold that weren't here because of him. I know he had to leave and move on, but I really hope Prohm and the current staff can keep turning players up on this level without him.
I'm okay with us having a down year, where we are super young but super talented, play fast and have fun, and Jackson scores a ton and is 1st/2nd all-conference even if we don't win many games or even make the NIT if it is clear that the guys we have, either freshman or JUCOs previously unused to Big 12 ball, are going to bring it the next year, even more the case if we have some good transfers coming off a redshirt to join them. I would like things to "feel" like they did during Diante Garrett's senior year that, even if we didn't win much, the program was headed in the right direction and fundamentally solid on the formation of the roster.
Prohm's got that level of rebuild job coming almost, at least in terms of roster though not in terms of program reputation, thankfully. Another something like a Cameron Payne to lead us out of that transition would be real nice there.
I'll wait to see what we have, but it's hard not seeing us struggle right now. I just want the conditions around where I don't think struggling is going to become a new normal. :/
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uh....that's not an easy answer because that wasn't the question. The question wasn't whether we 'need' one , but would we get one in the future. Nobody is debating whether we can be plenty successful without 5'stars.
Then yeah, I'd say a first round loss as a 3 seed was a failure if that was his goal.
fred may come off the good guy, but in doing that he screwed over Iowa state by neglecting a big part of his job for at least 2 years. Can't believe one statement without acknowledging the other.
Its also pretty commom knowledge that Fred told Georges that he'd be there for all 4 of his years and Matt and Monte that it would take something extraordinary (I.e. Not an offer from a bad NBA team looking to rebuild that would literally have hired you any year) for him to leave. I have no idea when he told those 3 he was looking for NBA jobs (before golden state interview?) and obviously they understood. But I find it funny we can call him the best person ever when he doesn't lie to recruits, but not when he lies to ones he already recruited.
And that's your jsb bashing hoiberg post for the day. (I don't make them unless someone posts stupid things).
How did ISU snag Brackins?
Fizer came here due to a connection with Tim Floyd.
Royce came here due to his past problems and possible Fred connection from MN.
Breeding success can help, however I think any five-stars who Prohm gets will be due to having a connection.
Lard, Young and Long will be very good. Carter.....im hoping he develops into a very good post player come Junior year as he has the size to be a force.
A longer, perhaps more eloquent version of what I said. As I said, I am a little concerned, and will get more concerned with the passage of every day without a commit. This recruiting season is huge for ISU....both in numbers and for the future of the program. We cannot afford too much of a down season.
Yeah, I wrote the obvious, however people were talking about building upon success, which helps, but won't get the five stars. It'll take a strong connection and/or a blue blood status and/or great location and/or bagmen. ISU doesn't have the latter three so hopefully Prohm's staff can pull in the strong connections.
I think they have a really good shot in this class of landing a couple 4 stars. The best chance of landing a 5 star this year is Sexton. I think if they can get him on campus they will have a decent shot but it's going to be hard especially with Arizona recruiting him because they have connections to USA basketball.
We would've had two in the last 3 years
-if we could've offered more money to RV
-if Hoiberg would've commited to staying we would've had Cheick
-if we could've offered more money to RV
-if Hoiberg would've commited to staying we would've had Cheick
The next possible 5 star in Iowa is going to play for the Hawks. Joe Weiskamp, he is 25th on ESPN in his class but in reality I don't think he ends up a 5 star. Haven't heard anything about other possible highly rated guys from Iowa.
Just depends on what comes up in our recruiting focus areas. It's also tougher for us being Transfer U because we use a decent amount of resources mining sit ones and 5th years.
