Could Otz be the end of Hoiberg's coaching career?

t-noah

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Argh, Prohm. You could say he almost completely lost it in the 2017-18 season. It was his third season as coach, all of Hoiberg's guys gone, and nothing! What saved him in his first two years was getting DeAndre Burton! Kid was a stud. [And of course Hoiberg's guys.]

He definitely got a reprieve in 2018-19 with how well Shayok played, and the recruiting of THT, and Tyrese H. Then a healthy Tyrese thru his entire year 2 wouldn't have likely saved 2019-20. True colors showed again last year, 2020-21. Ouch.
I actually didn't think 17-18 was that bad. It was a rebuild and there were signs of really good things including big wins at Hilton. Also LW/Lard had a ying/yang thing.

18-19 was more telling on the ability to run 'his' program imo. There's slumps and then there's dysfunction out front and center.
I actually enjoyed that 17-18 season. I had zero expectations with everyone we had lost from the previous year. Wigginton and Lard both looked like studs as true freshman that we could build around for the next couple years, and I knew we had Shayock and THT coming the following year. The future looked bright.

Then the following off season Shayock graduated, THT and Wigginton both left early, Lard was kicked off the team and everything collapsed in about a 2 day span. All the young talent I was counting on was gone outside of Haliburton.

Lard still haunts me. He was a beat as a freshman. I was convinced he was going to shatter Iowa State's all time blocks record and tear up the Big 12 for 3 more years. Biggest waste of talent I've seen at Iowa State.
You guys might be right to a point (in 2017-18). Yeah Wiggington and Lard seemed to be great freshman adds. But there wasn't much beyond that, and T. Lewis turned into a bust.

I was also merely looking at their record that year. It was not good. They only had 4 conference wins and were 10th in the conference!
2017-18 Iowa State Cyclones Schedule and Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
2017-18 Iowa State Cyclones Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Don’t fool yourself. Losing by 18 to Milwaukee and putting up a record low 45 points at Hilton against Tennessee in a blowout loss were no accidents. So many other failures that year.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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I kind of figured Fred would get this year and next to turn it around, but if pulls a Prohm, and goes winless for the conference season, or only wins one or two. One would have to think that the pressure on the AD would be to can him at the end of the year and move on.
 

JUKEBOX

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Agree. We would have had a better chance, but it was still going to be a tough win. UConn went all the way for a reason.
I think our best chance to win the national title was the 2000 Elite Eight team.

If Niang doesn't get injured, I think the 2014 team with Kane had a good shot to win it. IIRC, that team was so explosive offensively that they repeatedly came from behind to win games. We had started a run during that UConn game but didn't have enough firepower to finish it (at least how I remember it since I haven't watched the game since it happened lol).
 

Wally86

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Fred’s success at Iowa State was based on his ability to get highly talented players to come play at Iowa State. It wasn’t a program built on toughness or discipline. His success wasn’t based on X’s and O’s. It was the players. He hasn’t been able to duplicate that with the Bulls or Huskers. In my opinion, he picked wrong places to coach for his talents. He needed to go where talented kids would want to play. Some place like USC, Arizona, Texas, or UCLA.
Boz, I think maybe some of what you said didn’t come off like you thought. On court toughness probably wasn’t a strong point or coach enforced toughness. On the other hand most of the great players demonstrated a ton of personal discipline with hours of time put in the gym developing skills.
 
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Lyon309Cy

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I loved the Hoiberg Era and style of play, but Hoiball only works if you've got a hard-ass like Melvin Ejim or DeAndre Kane that demands effort and accountability. Because Fred isn't demanding anything from anyone. The GM-type coach works in the NBA because they're all grown men working hard to keep their spot in a very competitive job. If a player isn't self-motivated they're not going to last. Doesn't work in college as well because not everyone is willing to work as hard as Naz. Freedom on offense is great too, but you really need a facilitator like Monte or a physical mismatch like Royce or Georges, to keep everyone involved and create for everyone else. Otherwise you get what we had last year, a couple guys taking turns dribbling around playing 1 on 5 while everyone else stands around waiting for them to do something. Fred's system doesn't work without unselfish playmakers.
Ultimately it's on the coach, not the kids. If you're going to be an NBA/GM-style coach you still need to find a way to hold players accountable for their effort. Find an assistant to be the bad cop. And do a better job of finding players that can handle the freedom and make good decisions. Recruit mentally tough players that hold themselves and others to high standards. And they better be able to shoot. I have no doubt Fred could be successful again, but the types of players he needs aren't easy to find and get to Nebraska.
 
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BWRhasnoAC

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I think his contract was 5 mil a year for 5 years. But you also have to factor in his 10 year NBA playing career after college. Given he seems to be down to earth, I’m sure he invested a decent amount of those earnings. At a young age, that has probably grown nicely.
Your not even counting his playing years.
 

Sigmapolis

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Your not even counting his playing years.

Hoiberg made $10.4 million in the NBA (all this is pretax and "at the time"/unadjusted for inflation).

Fred made $9.7 million coaching Iowa State according to the state legislature's website.

Fred made $25.0 million coaching the Bulls -- I think. I thought that contract was for $5 million per year for five years and the whole thing was guaranteed from the moment he signed it.

Fred looks like he'll have made $10.0 million by the end of this season in Lincoln

Add that all up = $55.1 million

None of the above counts taxes, an agent's cut of the action, what drops out for living expenses, or the potential investment returns on any savings. So his net worth could be more/less.

I suppose I am probably missing some salary from the front office job with the Timberwolves.

Still not bad for knowing a lot about putting a ball through an 18" ring of metal.
 
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Sigmapolis

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Just imagine looking at Iowa State and TJO this offseason as an outsider...

-- team *sucks* last year, locker room/culture/reputation a smoldering crater at this point

-- the few decent players (mostly Bolton and Coleman-Lands) leave

-- basically everybody else (none of which were any good anyways) leave, only a few scrubs left

-- bring in this mid-major guy who was okay but certainly not outstanding in Brookings and Paradise

-- keeps one assistant from the hated previous administration, brings in well-regarded assistants from the MVC and MWC to fill out the coaching staff but neither with high-major qualifications

-- cobbles together a roster from the scrap heap, mostly high-major guys at least but none of them were really "the guy" or a star on their teams... looks to be a team full of adequate role players

Brockington = Penn State
Kalscheur = Minnesota
Kunc = Washington State
Grill = Iowa State by way of UNLV
Enaruna = Kansas

-- roster lacks star power and offensive punch, looks to be overmatched on talent and continuity

-- does inherit and manage to keep a highly-rated PG recruit, though the depleted roster means that young PG is probably going to have to play a larger role than you would ideally want

-- the other highly-touted recruit inherited is kicked off the team

-- a few other guys (not very good ones, probably) kicked off the team/quit before the first game

-- playing both a tough non-con and in one of the most difficult conferences of all-time

Despite all this, TJO has this team in excellent shape to make the NCAA tournament with a single-digit seed. It is not likely, but Iowa State has a decent chance of making a run at the conference title.

I can imagine being a fan of another program and seeing this and wondering why can't we do that. If TJO can pull a worst-to-first Major League turnaround in the Big 12, why can't we do the same?

We should step back and admire this. What TJO has done is mesmerizing this season.

Reminds me of the SEC fans I know who always wanted their coach fired because "Kirby smart almost won a national title in his second year, why can't we do the same thing at our school?"

Well, duh -- your new coach isn't Kirby Smart. Your new coach is going to have to beat Kirby Smart and Nick Saban. And Georgia is probably the best or second-best coaching job in the SEC.

What produced this instant success is a confluence of circumstances unlikely to repeat.
 
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bozclone

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Boz, I think maybe some of what you said didn’t come off like you thought. On court toughness probably wasn’t a strong point or coach enforced toughness. On the other hand most of the great players demonstrated a ton of personal discipline with hours of time put in the gym developing skills.

My point is that Nebraska is a bad fit for Fred. Fred is at his best when he has high end offensive talent. It is hard to get enough of that talent at Nebraska. When he came back to college from the NBA he was still a hot name because of his success at Iowa State. He could have picked a school that fit him better and he would likely have them rolling now. I think going to Nebraska was a bad choice for his career. It was a terrible fit.
 
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Mr.G.Spot

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By what measure do you claim he loves ISU? It looked more like he used ISU and then moved on.
He didn't use ISU because Jamie knew his desire to get to the NBA. His buyout was approximately $4 million if he left for another college. If he left for the NBA, I think it was $500,000.

Fred fully disclosed and Jamie fully accepted. There was no deception; hence, Fred did not "use" Iowa State.

Fred has given in the 6 figures to the ISU Foundation.

For the record, I extremely disliked his landing at knowledge u.

Time to move on and quit judging.

Do you think Okie State has a thread about Bill Self at Kansas?
 

AuH2O

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Again, I hate this thread. What's the point? Have no idea if Fred will get it turned around or not, but B. McGowens is a freshmen stud. Get a few more pieces like him and NU will start winning more. I think they will give him time.
It will be interesting to see if Alberts is patient. Maybe equally shocking to their high basketball attendance is their coaching stability. Looks like they are in their 5th coach in about 35 years and 7th in about 60 years. Kind of surprising given the lack of success. Might have been a different world when football was rolling and their b-ball facilities sucked.
 

NWICY

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Well at least losing to Indiana last night he lost to a old school "name" school. Gets them to 6-12 on the season. Better them than us.
 

carvers4math

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Have not read much of the thread but assume someone has pointed out the obvious, Fred has ended his own coaching career.
 

Stormin

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Fred returned to Ames at the right time. McDermott left town ahead of the posse to Creighton. Iowa State was evidently less desirable than Creighton HC job. Fred returns to much hype and fanfare. Got good Assistants. Steadies the ship. And takes a gamble on Royce White. Along with some other unhappy transfers. Gets a couple very good recruiting classes. Has success. And parlays it into a $25 million coaching deal. Cupboard is full. Left on top.

I have no problem with Fred. He did us okay. Prohm is the one who let us down. And another round with Fred would not be like the first. That ship has sailed. Fred’s weaknesses are exposed. He is not a good Coach.
 

jereseib

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Well at least losing to Indiana last night he lost to a old school "name" school. Gets them to 6-12 on the season. Better them than us.
They played Indiana last night? That's when you know your program is embarrassing, they put your game up against an NFL playoff game in primetime.
 

shadow

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He didn't use ISU because Jamie knew his desire to get to the NBA. His buyout was approximately $4 million if he left for another college. If he left for the NBA, I think it was $500,000.

Fred fully disclosed and Jamie fully accepted. There was no deception; hence, Fred did not "use" Iowa State.

Fred has given in the 6 figures to the ISU Foundation.

For the record, I extremely disliked his landing at knowledge u.

Time to move on and quit judging.

Do you think Okie State has a thread about Bill Self at Kansas?
Not sure if message boards existed back when self left Illinois but the Illinois folks talked about self for a long time after he left
 
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