Could Otz be the end of Hoiberg's coaching career?

AuH2O

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Is that the game that ISU traded Georges Niang for Daniel Edozie in the starting lineup? Just checking...
Edozie played 7 minutes, but yes. It is also the game where a guy took almost 3x the shots he normally did due to Georges injury and shot 79%.

We don't know what would've happened. Of course you'd rather play with Georges. But anyone acting like it's highly likely ISU wins a game in which they trailed the whole game is being unrealistic and simplistic. Sometimes when a guy gets hurt, another player is thrust into an expanded role and something completely unexpected, if not fluky happens. No one can deny Hogue going 15-19 and going for 34 isn't one of those things.

We also don't know the impact to other players. With Georges does Ejim play better, does Kane shoot better? Who knows. But I can say with certainty Hogue doesn't get 19 shots, and doesn't go for 34.
 
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JUKEBOX

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Edozie played 7 minutes, but yes. It is also the game where a guy took almost 3x the shots he normally did due to Georges injury and shot 79%.

We don't know what would've happened. Of course you'd rather play with Georges. But anyone acting like it's highly likely ISU wins a game in which they trailed the whole game is being unrealistic and simplistic. Sometimes when a guy gets hurt, another player is thrust into an expanded role and something completely unexpected, if not fluky happens. No one can deny Hogue going 15-19 and going for 34 isn't one of those things.

We also don't know the impact to other players. With Georges does Ejim play better, does Kane shoot better? Who knows. But I can say with certainty Hogue doesn't get 19 shots, and doesn't go for 34.
I agree that you just don't know what would happen. However it had to have been pretty deflating for the team to have one of their best players out.

If I remember correctly, I did not think the NCAA field was really all that strong that year, so if we pull out that UConn game, we probably could have won the whole thing.

Would have been kind of funny because even if they did win the national title, I still probably would have thought the 2000 team was better, but the field and circumstances I believe gave the 2014 team a decent shot (if they stayed healthy).
 

VeloClone

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Edozie played 7 minutes, but yes. It is also the game where a guy took almost 3x the shots he normally did due to Georges injury and shot 79%.

We don't know what would've happened. Of course you'd rather play with Georges. But anyone acting like it's highly likely ISU wins a game in which they trailed the whole game is being unrealistic and simplistic. Sometimes when a guy gets hurt, another player is thrust into an expanded role and something completely unexpected, if not fluky happens. No one can deny Hogue going 15-19 and going for 34 isn't one of those things.

We also don't know the impact to other players. With Georges does Ejim play better, does Kane shoot better? Who knows. But I can say with certainty Hogue doesn't get 19 shots, and doesn't go for 34.
It is just kind of silly to think that chances are pretty damned good that a team wouldn't perform at least marginally better with their best player than without him. It wasn't a trade of Georges for Dustin. Hogue averaged almost 34 minutes a game in March. It was a trade of Georges's 33 minutes a game going to other players on the roster - including 7 minutes to Edozie who essentially never played when Georges was in the lineup. Hogue did play one of the best games of his career. How much of that was because Georges wasn't in the game and how much of that was because it was essentially a home game for Hogue with a whole raft of his family and friends in attendance?

Melvin Ejim had himself a game once too. He scored 48 against TCU, remember? It didn't take Georges being out of the game for that to happen. That team rode the hot hand and on that day it meant that they made sure Mel - who was hotter than fish grease - got 24 shots. That is more shots than Hogue got against UConn.
 

AuH2O

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It is just kind of silly to think that chances are pretty damned good that a team wouldn't perform at least marginally better with their best player than without him. It wasn't a trade of Georges for Dustin. Hogue averaged almost 34 minutes a game in March. It was a trade of Georges's 33 minutes a game going to other players on the roster - including 7 minutes to Edozie who essentially never played when Georges was in the lineup. Hogue did play one of the best games of his career. How much of that was because Georges wasn't in the game and how much of that was because it was essentially a home game for Hogue with a whole raft of his family and friends in attendance?

Melvin Ejim had himself a game once too. He scored 48 against TCU, remember? It didn't take Georges being out of the game for that to happen. That team rode the hot hand and on that day it meant that they made sure Mel - who was hotter than fish grease - got 24 shots. That is more shots than Hogue got against UConn.
You never know, and it's fun to discuss. I think the Ejim case is a good one to raise as a counterpoint, but it was pretty clear from the beginning it was an overmatched opponent in a blowout, and Ejim was conference POY. I think the tendency to do go away from the typical offensive options and ride the hot hand is easy to do in that case. Hard for me to think no matter what is happening in the UConn game if Georges is healthy that the decision is ever going to be to start running more offense through Hogue if Georges is there. But maybe Hogue was just going to ball out and have a huge game and find a way to get a ton of shots. We'll never know.
 
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Cyclones125

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Yeah, it took about 2 years to be competitive and basketball and football are nothing alike in building a program.


Lol. Guy hasn't had a top 150 offense since he got to Nebraska. They're worse than us right now by a long way. No thanks.
I'm aware Nebraska sucks... probably has to do with lack of talent. But Fred is a brilliant offensive mind, this is not debatable, and our offense is the clear weak area - unless you think relying on Brockington to consistently make deep contested 2s and Gabe to be scorching hot from 3 every 1 in 5 games is a sustainable offense. National championship GUARANTEEED with Fred coaching offense.
 

Tre4ISU

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I'm aware Nebraska sucks... probably has to do with lack of talent. But Fred is a brilliant offensive mind, this is not debatable, and our offense is the clear weak area - unless you think relying on Brockington to consistently make deep contested 2s and Gabe to be scorching hot from 3 every 1 in 5 games is a sustainable offense. National championship GUARANTEEED with Fred coaching offense.

I mean, it certainly is debatable at this point. The offense you're criticizing is about 70 spots better than Fred in year, what, 3? Fred was great at ISU but since he left, there's hardly anything to support that he's an elite mind at this point and I don't give a **** that he's at Nebraska. Either it was talent and he can't get it anymore or it's scheme. Either way, it's not the same.
 

madguy30

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I'm aware Nebraska sucks... probably has to do with lack of talent. But Fred is a brilliant offensive mind, this is not debatable, and our offense is the clear weak area - unless you think relying on Brockington to consistently make deep contested 2s and Gabe to be scorching hot from 3 every 1 in 5 games is a sustainable offense. National championship GUARANTEEED with Fred coaching offense.

Offense is not something ISU's current players would excel at no matter who was coaching them.

Unless Fred made them bigger and faster.
 

Macloney

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He didn't use ISU because Jamie knew his desire to get to the NBA. His buyout was approximately $4 million if he left for another college. If he left for the NBA, I think it was $500,000.

Fred fully disclosed and Jamie fully accepted. There was no deception; hence, Fred did not "use" Iowa State.

Fred has given in the 6 figures to the ISU Foundation.

For the record, I extremely disliked his landing at knowledge u.

Time to move on and quit judging.

Do you think Okie State has a thread about Bill Self at Kansas?

No, but they night have a thread about Brad Underwood. A guy who actually screwed a program over.
 

Nebrasketball

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Hey guys, congrats on your season thus far. Wanted to get your point of view. Yesterday one of our seniors went on the radio and said basically Fred and the coaches don't hold anyone accountable. Seems to be a theme with the Bulls as well. Did Fred have a problem with that at ISU? We are really struggling to see how he's been so terrible. Did he luckily recruit a group of guys at ISU that didn't need to be told how to work hard? Did he have a coach like Otz that was his mouthpiece for accountability, so he didn't have to do it?

And yes Nebraska is hard place to win, but when you are winning at half the pace of Tim Miles and Doc Sadler....there is something bigger at play.
 
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madguy30

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Hey guys, congrats on your season thus far. Wanted to get your point of view. Yesterday one of our seniors went on the radio and said basically Fred and the coaches don't hold anyone accountable. Seems to be a theme with the Bulls as well. Did Fred have a problem with that at ISU? We are really struggling to see how he's been so terrible. Did he luckily recruit a group of guys at ISU that didn't need to be told how to work hard? Did he have a coach like Otz that was his mouthpiece for accountability, so he didn't have to do it?

And yes Nebraska is hard place to win, but when you are winning at half the pace of Tim Miles and Doc Sadler....there is something bigger at play.

There was word that accountability was not a strong suit in handling some players at ISU.

Interesting he's being called out in present form like that.
 

Cyched

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Hey guys, congrats on your season thus far. Wanted to get your point of view. Yesterday one of our seniors went on the radio and said basically Fred and the coaches don't hold anyone accountable. Seems to be a theme with the Bulls as well. Did Fred have a problem with that at ISU? We are really struggling to see how he's been so terrible. Did he luckily recruit a group of guys at ISU that didn't need to be told how to work hard? Did he have a coach like Otz that was his mouthpiece for accountability, so he didn't have to do it?

And yes Nebraska is hard place to win, but when you are winning at half the pace of Tim Miles and Doc Sadler....there is something bigger at play.

What did the player say? Seems a little wild that he would throw the coach under the bus on the radio.

It always seemed like Fred ran a looser ship, but nothing that really raised any concerns, at least on the surface. He also had a lot of natural leaders on the team like Ejim, Niang, Mitrou-Long, Morris that held each other accountable. Prohm benefitted from these same guys his first couple years as well. There any natural leaders/strong personalities on the NU team that would fit that profile? Or just talented guys wanting to "get theirs?"

While I don't really care how Neb. hoops does, I think a lot of us are surprised at just how poorly Fred has been doing.
 

Cyched

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Hey guys, congrats on your season thus far. Wanted to get your point of view. Yesterday one of our seniors went on the radio and said basically Fred and the coaches don't hold anyone accountable. Seems to be a theme with the Bulls as well. Did Fred have a problem with that at ISU? We are really struggling to see how he's been so terrible. Did he luckily recruit a group of guys at ISU that didn't need to be told how to work hard? Did he have a coach like Otz that was his mouthpiece for accountability, so he didn't have to do it?

And yes Nebraska is hard place to win, but when you are winning at half the pace of Tim Miles and Doc Sadler....there is something bigger at play.

Also regarding your question on Otz: he recruited a number of the good players in Fred's tenure. Even from an outsiders perspective he seems to have a good rapport with players and they respect him in return. A lot of former players tweeted their excitement when he was named HC last year.

I don't think he was solely responsible for keeping everyone in line, as he left in 2013. But the buy in he's gotten from this year's team seems to tell me he's got at least some skill in getting guys to play for the team and not themselves. We've arguably overachieved this year as a result.
 

JP4CY

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Not sure if message boards existed back when self left Illinois but the Illinois folks talked about self for a long time after he left
KState still talks about Huggins single year.
 
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Nebrasketball

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What did the player say? Seems a little wild that he would throw the coach under the bus on the radio.

It always seemed like Fred ran a looser ship, but nothing that really raised any concerns, at least on the surface. He also had a lot of natural leaders on the team like Ejim, Niang, Mitrou-Long, Morris that held each other accountable. Prohm benefitted from these same guys his first couple years as well. There any natural leaders/strong personalities on the NU team that would fit that profile? Or just talented guys wanting to "get theirs?"

While I don't really care how Neb. hoops does, I think a lot of us are surprised at just how poorly Fred has been doing.
The guy that called him out is a 6th year senior who took a lesser role to be at Nebraska, and came back this year for his COVID year - when he didn't have to - so fans are thinking he's not blowing smoke. He basically said players aren't holding each other accountable, and it frustrates him. He also said its hard to hold each other accountable when the coaches aren't doing it. Our two most talented kids are both NBA level talented, one even has a lottery pick ceiling. Both of them don't box out, lazy on defense and take wayyyyy too many contested shots/ball gets stuck in their hands. This was a problem from our first game and nothing has been done to fix it.
 

usedcarguy

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Hey guys, congrats on your season thus far. Wanted to get your point of view. Yesterday one of our seniors went on the radio and said basically Fred and the coaches don't hold anyone accountable. Seems to be a theme with the Bulls as well. Did Fred have a problem with that at ISU? We are really struggling to see how he's been so terrible. Did he luckily recruit a group of guys at ISU that didn't need to be told how to work hard? Did he have a coach like Otz that was his mouthpiece for accountability, so he didn't have to do it?

And yes Nebraska is hard place to win, but when you are winning at half the pace of Tim Miles and Doc Sadler....there is something bigger at play.

He had better than a coach like Otz. For his first 4 seasons, he had Otz. There were always accountability issues on the roster, but they were in large part masked by high character guys.

As an aside, I'll also say that that lack of accountability also derailed Prohm's tenure here as well as McDermott's. Both followed coaches who weren't big on accountability and were popular with players.
 

usedcarguy

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I believe Fred was paid $40 million by the Bulls. Not sure how many millions he earned from ISU and Nebraska combined, but it's probably at least that much. He's a smart guy, so I'm sure he has taken good care of his fortune, which means he has achieved lifetime financial security for he and his wife, his children, his children's children, and probably his children's children's children. Not feeling sorry for him.
I think his contract was 5 mil a year for 5 years. But you also have to factor in his 10 year NBA playing career after college. Given he seems to be down to earth, I’m sure he invested a decent amount of those earnings. At a young age, that has probably grown nicely.

Most don't know this, but during Fred's first few seasons in the NBA when it wasn't a sure thing that he was going to stick, he was a financial advisor with Edward Jones in Ames. I assure you that guy still has the first nickel he ever made and more.
 
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Nebrasketball

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He had better than a coach like Otz. For his first 4 seasons, he had Otz. There were always accountability issues on the roster, but they were in large part masked by high character guys.

As an aside, I'll also say that that lack of accountability also derailed Prohm's tenure here as well as McDermott's. Both followed coaches who weren't big on accountability and were popular with players.
Unfortunately the accountability bug is looking like it will derail Fred here as well. Fred will get next year as his buyout would be the biggest exercised buyout in CBB history by 3.5 Million. Sounds like the only miracle would come if he were to somehow bring in a couple high character/high talent guys that could flip it in a year - but Matt A does all of Fred's grocery shopping, and so far he's only brought in talented guys wanting to get theirs.
 
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